Police checking travel

[takno]

A follow-up to my post (#338) last night about police visiting someone as a result of posting things on Twitter (is nobody on here alarmed by the concept of ‘thought police’?)

James messaged me that Police said ‘there was an accusation of incitement through the anonymous call they had. In that I was "boasting" about not wearing a mask and encouraging others to do the same’

He explained to them that the majority of his tweets were retweets from senior scientific and medical professionals relating to peer reviewed scientific papers and the Danish mask study.

What exactly are the justifications for such a visit. Is thinking outside the established groupthink a crime now?

Certain police forces (or more often individual officers) have been used as a rather ineffective tool for silencing people who other people disagree with on social media for some time. Graham Linehan springs to mind as an example. I don't think it's a particularly smart plan for the police to get involved, because a visit from the police is for better or worse viewed as action against you by a lot of people in the UK. They are usually just trying to de-escalate the situation though, rather than assign blame.

 

[trainophile]

So the police have access to our home addresses via Twitter? Unless they are actively pursuing a known criminal that doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Bantamzen]

If someone wished to collect an item of computer equipment to enhance their working environment, would that pass the need to leave ones house for work, if the item being collected was over 30 miles away?

What are the chances of police stopping people on roads in and out of London?

Well to put it into perspective, my brother-in-law came around the other day to pick up our Christmas tree so he could plant it in his garden and there were no Police stopping him. So I'd say moving computer kit to allow someone to work from home should be fine.

So the police have access to our home addresses via Twitter? Unless they are actively pursuing a known criminal that doesn't sit well with me.

Nope. Twitter does not have that data.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I also imagine you never touch the mask when putting it on (bar the strings), you wash your hands when you change it over and your Sainthood is booked for Easter time.

I'm just trying to do my job....

 

[VauxhallandI]

I'm just trying to do my job....

Trying and failing by ignoring your transgressions but highlighting other people’s lawful exemptions, mmmmm I think there are a lot of people with strange priorities to put it politely

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Well to put it into perspective, my brother-in-law came around the other day to pick up our Christmas tree so he could plant it in his garden and there were no Police stopping him. So I'd say moving computer kit to allow someone to work from home should be fine.


Nope. Twitter does not have that data.

You’d hope not. You’d also hope that even if they did, demanding that they hand it over just so they can try to dissuade posters from challenging the narrative would require a court order.
A simple google search on that person’s name can bring up his address...

 

[trainophile]

You’d hope not. You’d also hope that even if they did, demanding that they hand it over just so they can try to dissuade posters from challenging the narrative would require a court order.
A simple google search on that person’s name can bring up his address...

Thanks for the reassurance, I never thought about that now that we use our real names on social media a fair bit.

 

[DB]

Well to put it into perspective, my brother-in-law came around the other day to pick up our Christmas tree so he could plant it in his garden and there were no Police stopping him. So I'd say moving computer kit to allow someone to work from home should be fine.

Can't see that anyone could reasonably argue with that (caveat that reason often seems to be absent this year!)

I've had users coming into our sites to collect IT equipment which we have prepared for them, and likewise I and my colleague need to go to the sites to prepare the equipment and maintain the central systems. Given that the government are expecting businesses to keep operating where possible, there's really no option - in order for most of our staff to be able to work at home, they have to be able to collect equipment and IT staff have to be able to continue going into offices where necessary to keep everything running.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2021 ==

Thanks for the reassurance, I never thought about that now that we use our real names on social media a fair bit.

They could also potentially use the electoral roll, although you'd hope the police would have better things to do than go to these lengths in their mission to become the Thought Police.

 

[trainophile]

Is no non-essential travel still "guidance" or is it the law now? I scrapped a trip last week, should have been coming back today, and wasted about £30 of train tickets in the process, which I presumably can't claim back even though I would probably have been prevented from travelling.

 

[DB]

Is no non-essential travel still "guidance" or is it the law now? I scrapped a trip last week, should have been coming back today, and wasted about £30 of train tickets in the process, which I presumably can't claim back even though I would probably have been prevented from travelling.

It's guidance I believe, although obviously tied to not being allowed out from behind the sofa without a valid reason (which is law). So if you don't have what the police deem a valid reason to be outside your house, they'll get you for that if they can be bothered (especially in Derbyshire).

 

[221129]

I'm just trying to do my job....

But again, it is NOT your job.

 

[trainophile]

It's guidance I believe, although obviously tied to not being allowed out from behind the sofa without a valid reason (which is law). So if you don't have what the police deem a valid reason to be outside your house, they'll get you for that if they can be bothered (especially in Derbyshire).

 

[Darandio]

Working in a coffee shop in a heavily student-populated area, all of the students I serve wear them. There are a group of builders that come in and two of them say they're exempt, yet every time they come in they shove their noses under their hi-viz jackets. I told them that if they're exempt then they don't need to, so I caught them out. It just doesn't add up.

I fully appreciate anxiety or rape victims not wearing them, I completely sympathise with that.

Maybe the group of builders are rape victims? Unlikely I know, but it is on the rise.

I'm being purposely shocking here to highlight a simple point, you don't know the situation with everyone that visits your coffee shop and aren't called on to make this judgement. It isn't your job.

 

[DB]

Maybe the group of builders are rape victims? Unlikely I know, but it is on the rise.

I'm being purposely shocking here to highlight a simple point, you don't know the situation with everyone that visits your coffee shop and aren't called on to make this judgement. It isn't your job.

Quite. Shop staff can ask whether someone is exempt, but if the person says yes they are then that should be the end of the matter. It is not up to them to judge whether or not someone is, or to demand proof or further details.

The two builders could have one of many valid reasons.

 

[Iskra]

I'm just trying to do my job....

Company guidance is quite clear that it isn’t your or any other employees job to be enforcing anything.

Regardless of customer behaviour, you are safely behind a screen.

Leave enforcement to the authorities, you don’t know who’s genuine and who isn’t and it’s simply not worth the potential confrontation anyway.

 

[py_megapixel]

Local councillors in Spondon (a suburb of Derby) have even issued a map of which parks and green spaces it is ‘legal’ to use.

Is that published outside of Facebook? Because I don't think Facebook is an acceptable way to communicate information which is supposed to be legally binding (even though in this case it isn't), unless for some reason it only applies to people in the Facebook group.

In my eyes there should be clear guidance, of say 10 miles from your home address to travel for exercise purposes.

But even that doesn't make sense. Do you expect someone on a country walk to keep checking GPS to ensure that they aren't accidentally 10½ miles from their home?
Also, for some people living in inner-city areas, driving 15 miles might be 'safer' than driving 10 miles, because if they drive 10 miles they're in suburbia, but if they drive 15 miles they're in open countryside.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

In my eyes there should be clear guidance, of say 10 miles from your home address to travel for exercise purposes.

What benefit would this have in curbing transmission?

Or is this another episode of "we must be seen to be doing something, this is something, so we must do it"?

 

[DB]

Or is this another episode of "we must be seen to be doing something, this is something, so we must do it"?

Of course. As with nearly all the petty restrictions introduced, and it continues to be stated as a "fact" by government and the media that lockdowns and restrictions work, when a look at infection and death stats compared to restriction severity across countries shows no correlation whatsoever - a pretty clear indication that they don't work!

 

[PHILIPE]

Is that published outside of Facebook? Because I don't think Facebook is an acceptable way to communicate information which is supposed to be legally binding (even though in this case it isn't), unless for some reason it only applies to people in the Facebook group.

Facebook and other social Media is the only way to communicate with many young people today. I don't think there are so many watching "News at Ten" or reading newspapers as they might have done in the past

 

[DB]

Facebook and other social Media is the only way to communicate with many young people today. I don't think there are so many watching "News at Ten" or reading newspapers as they might have done in the past

Anything official from any level of government should go on an official website - fine to post a notice and a link on facebook, but it's not appropriate for actually posting official communications.

 

[greyman42]

Is no non-essential travel still "guidance" or is it the law now? I scrapped a trip last week, should have been coming back today, and wasted about £30 of train tickets in the process, which I presumably can't claim back even though I would probably have been prevented from travelling.

Is travelling for the sake of your mental health still deemed an acceptable reason?

 

[py_megapixel]

Facebook and other social Media is the only way to communicate with many young people today. I don't think there are so many watching "News at Ten" or reading newspapers as they might have done in the past

But that doesn't make it acceptable to make essential information available only through Facebook.

 

[PHILIPE]

But that doesn't make it acceptable to make essential information available only through Facebook.

I haven't said that

 

[_toommm_]

Police now seem to be touring the rail network, rather than stopping people at stations. I got asked on my way home from work just after Manchester Piccadilly today, but a quick flash of my company swipe card and letter satisfied them and they were really nice.

 

[DB]

Police now seem to be touring the rail network, rather than stopping people at stations. I got asked on my way home from work just after Manchester Piccadilly today, but a quick flash of my company swipe card and letter satisfied them and they were really nice.

Sounds thoroughly dystopian - "papers please!"

Hopefully I won't encounter them - don't have any work ID and usual work wear is jeans and a fleece.

 

[trainophile]

Sounds thoroughly dystopian - "papers please!"

Hopefully I won't encounter them - don't have any work ID and usual work wear is jeans and a fleece.

You could carry a wage slip with you if all else fails.

 

[HLE]

And typically the media haven't widely reported that the FPNs issued by Derbyshire police have been all but cancelled. Are most of the mainstream media all socialists, loving the idea of state control?

Might serve as a reminder to some coppers that they aren't the Stasi. Thankfully round these parts, apart from some roadblocks during April last year, our force has been reasonable and all but admit they don't have the resources to stop Doris walking her dog.

@bramling - I hope we don't see any BLM protests whilst we're in lockdown. The videos of the lockdown protestors in London being arrested would give the authorities a right headache if BLM staged a protest. They'd be accused of racism if they took action in the same way, or if they didn't. One headache we don't need right now.

 

[duncanp]

Here is a newspaper report of people eating inside a cafe in contravention of lockdown rules.

Should I report it to the police?

Oh wait.....

A Full English lockdown: Met probe officers 'flouting' Covid curbs

Brian Jennings, 44, regularly walks past the cafe, near the Greenwich Patrol Base in south east London for exercise and saw them sitting inside eating.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Metropolitan Police has launched a probe into officers spotted 'flouting' coronavirus curbs by tucking into breakfast inside a London café.

A passer-by caught several squad cars outside The Chef House Kitchen while servicemen sat inside at 9am, despite a ban on gatherings and table service.

Brian Jennings, 44, regularly walks past the cafe, near the Greenwich Patrol Base in south east London for exercise and saw them sitting inside eating.

The IT manager from Blackheath said he was outraged by the site after reading of members of the public who fined for going for a walk with a coffee.

A passer-by caught several squad cars outside The Chef House Kitchen while officers sat inside at 9am, despite a ban on gatherings and table service

Brian Jennings, 44, regularly walks past the cafe, near the Greenwich Patrol Base in south east London for exercise and saw them sitting inside eating

He said: 'There's a large police depot on the Thames riverside near me. I walk past it a few times a week because it's a nice quiet place to take exercise.

'On the neighbouring industrial estate there's a cafe. We noticed in the first lockdown and then we noticed it again today that, regularly, first thing in the morning there will be half a dozen squad cars outside and every table full of police officers having breakfast in there.

'It's not a one off it's been going on for a few months. You read about people getting fined in the papers and it seems hypocritical as there [looks like there is little] social distancing in the cafe.

It comes after police have cracked down harder on rule breaking.

'It's a public cafe and it's open and its serving table service in lockdown - it is not good.

'It's about as bad as it gets in the UK with a virus and it's insensitive and stupid. I think it's really bad.'

He added: 'I find the regular, continued flouting of social distancing, and lockdown regulations by the police hypocritical and foolish at this time when the infection rates in Greenwich Borough are among the highest in the UK.'

The Met Police are looking into allegations and said it is attempting to 'find out more information'.

The force said: 'We are aware of the images and work is ongoing to find out more information.'

The Chef House Kitchen has been approached for comment.

 

[DB]

You could carry a wage slip with you if all else fails.

That really is going down the 'papers please' route, and I'm simply not prepared to do it, nor should there be any expectation that anyone should need to - the police need reining in. At least it's encouraging that the media are going after the more blatant misuse of powers and showing them up. Hopefully that will make some senior police think twice about what they allow their staff to do - turning the public against them is something which really won't help them at the moment.

 

[GodAtum]

That really is going down the 'papers please' route, and I'm simply not prepared to do it, nor should there be any expectation that anyone should need to - the police need reining in. At least it's encouraging that the media are going after the more blatant misuse of powers and showing them up. Hopefully that will make some senior police think twice about what they allow their staff to do - turning the public against them is something which really won't help them at the moment.

I would refuse as we don't live in a police state. They can arrest me, I would then go to the media who would have a field day.