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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

OmniCity999

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It’s an interesting route -
Whilst it provides a direct link for the likes of stenhouse in the west and niddrie in the east to the city centre, it’s in no means the fastest way from say Musselburgh to town or at the other end going in loops through wester hailes before heading into the city.
It’s very “locally busy” route with a high turnover of passengers - probably every bus companies perfect scenario. A high number of passengers will board at Musselburgh, niddrie and wester hailes and only travel for a few stops so often you can have multiple points throughout the journey where you have a busy bus.
There has been times recently where I find the bus empties at the fort, for the very next stop someone gets on and comments how “it must be quiet as they have the whole bus to themselves.” In reality, 20 minutes earlier it’s been a standing load!
precisely, the route for the masses if you will :p it's a shame that its single deck, because i wholeheartedly believe that even if it were decker operated, with a small reduction in timetable, it would still be standing room only.

And as you say, it connects loads of little micro communities with towns, shopping centres and the city, then does it all over again.

A very useful route.
 
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Auld reekie

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What an absolute joke. And how many of those were doing essential journeys I wonder? Like the guy I had on the other day who did a full journey there and back because he had gas engineers in so had no heating.
I hope the bus was freezing but your cabin warm.
 

Avenger20

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I hope the bus was freezing but your cabin warm.

Playing devil's advocate here whilst going off topic, would you like to be sitting in your house today with no heating in potentially sub zero temperatures? Can't go to a pub, cafe or library to pass the time and get a heat in you. Realistically, being exposed to cold for a long period of time can in itself be a danger to one's health, which could have lead the gent to contract covid in the future ‍♂️

So long as he travelled on the bus alone, wearing a mask and distanced from others, what's the issue? Would you rather he froze?

I completely understand that there are those who need to make journeys to get to work/shops etc and that space must be available for them - I'm also acutely aware of "undesirables" using transport when they shouldn't be, I work on the railway myself but one person mining their own business in order to keep a bit warm whilst their property was being worked on is fine with me.

As I said, this is off topic so I'm not wanting to open a discussion on the matter and therefore no reply is neccesary, I just want people to think of the other side of the coin - there's far too many judgements these days from "Internet covid police".
 

computerSaysNo

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I haven’t driven many other services this week, however, today I drove the 30 with standing room only on two separate journeys! Bearing in mind this service is still running at 10 minute daytime frequency aswell. What lockdown?!? :|

It’s an interesting route
Do people from Saughton, Stenhouse Rd and Chesser let other (decker) routes go past and wait specifically for a 30 because the 30 runs fast(ish) from Murrayfield to Lothian Road (rather than eg a 3/25/33 which goes through Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket, West End)? If so would it help if one of the above services (eg 33) was re-routed via West Approach Rd, and the 30 re-routed via Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket?
 

CN04NRJ

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Do people from Saughton, Stenhouse Rd and Chesser let other (decker) routes go past and wait specifically for a 30 because the 30 runs fast(ish) from Murrayfield to Lothian Road (rather than eg a 3/25/33 which goes through Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket, West End)? If so would it help if one of the above services (eg 33) was re-routed via West Approach Rd, and the 30 re-routed via Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket?

Yes, you'd be surprised. People will let a 2 go past along Niddrie Mains / Craigmillar to travel to the same stops in Newington or just around the corner from Nicholson Square.

It was the same when I worked in Cardiff - people would let several buses pass that went exactly the same way to get on the 'main' route that went along a certain corridor.

The opposite is true from the Balgreen roundabout onwards when you're running with a 22, they'll wave you past to travel to Princes Street and usually get on the 22 instead. I suppose, again, that's seen as the 'main' route for the area.
 

route101

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Yes, you'd be surprised. People will let a 2 go past along Niddrie Mains / Craigmillar to travel to the same stops in Newington or just around the corner from Nicholson Square.

It was the same when I worked in Cardiff - people would let several buses pass that went exactly the same way to get on the 'main' route that went along a certain corridor.

The opposite is true from the Balgreen roundabout onwards when you're running with a 22, they'll wave you past to travel to Princes Street and usually get on the 22 instead. I suppose, again, that's seen as the 'main' route for the area.
A lot of people stick to what they know, I hear that phrase in Glasgow a lot. People will stick to the route and are not aware or care about any other routes.
 
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Lothian_Bus

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As a teenager I wanted to go on the route that had the new bus on it so would let an older bus go past if it was in front of a new one. In the early 90s when travelling from Cameron Toll to Corstorphine I was challenged by the driver of the 31 why I had let the 69 go in front of me. I guess the main reason they asked was back then it was fare stages so they had to make sure I wasn't fare dodging. Not an issue on City routes at the moment of course.
 

route101

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As a teenager I wanted to go on the route that had the new bus on it so would let an older bus go past if it was in front of a new one. In the early 90s when travelling from Cameron Toll to Corstorphine I was challenged by the driver of the 31 why I had let the 69 go in front of me. I guess the main reason they asked was back then it was fare stages so they had to make sure I wasn't fare dodging. Not an issue on City routes at the moment of course.

I do that sometimes in Glasgow, if a single and decker turn up at same time, rather have a more comfortable ride on a decker!
 

CN04NRJ

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A Longstone driver on TikTok replied to my comment about the Evora's with this:
View attachment 88401

This is exciting!

I'm going in early Monday to get a good look, I'm not brave enough to do TikTok though! :lol:

And I've swapped my shift Wednesday to do a full day on 30s, probably end up with two 7900s though lol.
 
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A lot of people stick to what they know, I hear that phrase in Glasgow a lot. People will stick to the route and are not aware or care about any other routes.
Passengers not being prepared to use (or not knowing about) alternatives like the 2 or 14 becomes a problem on the 30 due to it being single deck through necessity. A victim of its own success perhaps.
I suppose it's up to the bus company to promote these alternatives properly so they can protect capacity on the 30 between Craigmillar and Southside.
 

VioletEclipse

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I've heard that the 7900s don't cope well with being inactive for long periods of time due to the batteries. Am I right in guessing that the Evoras will take over the 30, cascading the 7900s onto services currently operated by Eclipses, and making the older Eclipses redundant?
 

computerSaysNo

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I've heard that the 7900s don't cope well with being inactive for long periods of time due to the batteries. Am I right in guessing that the Evoras will take over the 30, cascading the 7900s onto services currently operated by Eclipses, and making the older Eclipses redundant?
Yes the Evoras are said to be for the 30 (/if any spare, other Longstone single deck routes). There aren't that many Eclipses operating currently (only 169-175 and 186-190), so I'd guess the 2, 36, 38, 42, and possibly the 1, 12, 24, 45, 48, will all go to single deck 7900s.
 

CN04NRJ

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Yes the Evoras are said to be for the 30 (/if any spare, other Longstone single deck routes). There aren't that many Eclipses operating currently (only 169-175 and 186-190), so I'd guess the 2, 36, 38, 42, and possibly the 1, 12, 24, 45, 48, will all go to single deck 7900s.

I'd agree with you except the 48 - that's consistently busy and definitely should be double deck. I did it all the way through the full lockdown and over the 2020/21 festive period and it definitely needs to remain DD for now - in my opinion anyway.
 

OmniCity999

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I've heard that the 7900s don't cope well with being inactive for long periods of time due to the batteries. Am I right in guessing that the Evoras will take over the 30, cascading the 7900s onto services currently operated by Eclipses, and making the older Eclipses redundant?
Yes the Evoras are said to be for the 30 (/if any spare, other Longstone single deck routes). There aren't that many Eclipses operating currently (only 169-175 and 186-190), so I'd guess the 2, 36, 38, 42, and possibly the 1, 12, 24, 45, 48, will all go to single deck 7900s.
I'd agree with you except the 48 - that's consistently busy and definitely should be double deck. I did it all the way through the full lockdown and over the 2020/21 festive period and it definitely needs to remain DD for now - in my opinion anyway.
If there isnt enough work for the 7900, temporary transfer to East Coast or Lothian Country isnt being ruled out, to keep them on the road.

"Deep Storage" is being considered too.
 

CN04NRJ

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If there isnt enough work for the 7900, temporary transfer to East Coast or Lothian Country isnt being ruled out, to keep them on the road.

"Deep Storage" is being considered too.

I'd imagine they'd do just fine plodding around on the 275/6/80/81 and probably the Edinburgh runs too. Imagine it would save on diesel and maintenance compared to the B9TLs and keep them running in the mean time.

Don't know much about East Coast routes but could see the 106 as a candidate if they went there?
 
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I have herd one of the electric buses is away to Ireland to get warranty work done on it. Dose anyone one know if there is any truth to it
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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I'd imagine they'd do just fine plodding around on the 275/6/80/81 and probably the Edinburgh runs too. Imagine it would save on diesel and maintenance compared to the B9TLs and keep them running in the mean time.

Don't know much about East Coast routes but could see the 106 as a candidate if they went there?
Probably any of the ECB single deck runs would suit, anyone know if it’s true that B5LH’s work better on faster speed/longer runs?

I know 1-10 have been talked before about receiving some upgrades. So in the unlikely event that was to happen after the eVoRa’s take to the road you’ve then got probably about 10-20 7900’s to do something with (assuming some stay in the city fleet, which I’m confident some will). Overall I’d say they’d work quite well for LC/ECB and they could stand down a good chunk of B7RLE’s (Don’t think the B8RLE Eclipse3’s would be stood down), I know some on this thread would like to see some routes return if this happens but at the moment I can’t see that happening even if LC take on additional singles.

Looking forward to seeing the new ones on the road, won’t be able to get on one for a while though.
 

Avenger20

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I'd imagine they'd do just fine plodding around on the 275/6/80/81 and probably the Edinburgh runs too. Imagine it would save on diesel and maintenance compared to the B9TLs and keep them running in the mean time.

Don't know much about East Coast routes but could see the 106 as a candidate if they went there?

They'd be no good on the 140 which is consistently busy throughout the day, but I reckon they'd be just fine on the 106, 139 and even certain X5 journeys which aren't overly busy. X7 requires more capacity though.
 

GusB

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I have herd one of the electric buses is away to Ireland to get warranty work done on it. Dose anyone one know if there is any truth to it
Please refrain from using jargon such as "milk float" in your posts. Inevitably it leads to questions asking what it means, as actually happened in this case.

Then follow the answer(s) to the question and the "ok, thanks" message and before you know it we have four or five posts instead of one!

When the ADL order comes in, will the 57/08 plate Gemini's and the 09/59 plate Gemini 2's get withdrawn??
Also, as I requested before - do not ask questions which cannot be answered because they involve future events.
 
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OmniCity999

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I'd imagine they'd do just fine plodding around on the 275/6/80/81 and probably the Edinburgh runs too. Imagine it would save on diesel and maintenance compared to the B9TLs and keep them running in the mean time.

Don't know much about East Coast routes but could see the 106 as a candidate if they went there?
They'd be no good on the 140 which is consistently busy throughout the day, but I reckon they'd be just fine on the 106, 139 and even certain X5 journeys which aren't overly busy. X7 requires more capacity though.
X5, 106, 139 & 140 would be there general stomping ground if any did goto East Coast on short term loan.
I have herd one of the electric buses is away to Ireland to get warranty work done on it. Dose anyone one know if there is any truth to it
All lined up in storage.
Probably any of the ECB single deck runs would suit, anyone know if it’s true that B5LH’s work better on faster speed/longer runs?

I know 1-10 have been talked before about receiving some upgrades. So in the unlikely event that was to happen after the eVoRa’s take to the road you’ve then got probably about 10-20 7900’s to do something with (assuming some stay in the city fleet, which I’m confident some will). Overall I’d say they’d work quite well for LC/ECB and they could stand down a good chunk of B7RLE’s (Don’t think the B8RLE Eclipse3’s would be stood down), I know some on this thread would like to see some routes return if this happens but at the moment I can’t see that happening even if LC take on additional singles.

Looking forward to seeing the new ones on the road, won’t be able to get on one for a while though.
By the very nature of the Hybrid technology, their better on stop start work. Their only favoured by drivers on long distance runs because they have plenty of oomph.

If everything is prepared and ready to go, the updates (that are not necessarily required) but have been spoken about could be done over 3/4 work days max. Its just Exhaust work and a remap.
When the ADL order comes in, will the 57/08 plate Gemini's and the 09/59 plate Gemini 2's get withdrawn??
The order is for 98 vehicles. A number of these will displace the (Motorcoach) Gemini B9's at East Coast.

The rest will be added to the main fleet with Gemini B9's being removed first. Since there are only around 100 Gemini B9's left in main fleet, these will be removed from service. New buses will replace old like for like. Or near enough.

Although, as this is dynamic environment, things change regularly, so it may change. But certainly the plan is that the vast majority of the Gemini B9's in main fleet can be replaced.
Could we please, before posing questions, try to make some effort to find out what information is out there already. The wider internet can be a marvellous resource, but sometimes you'll find the information here quicker.

Please do have a look at our search feature - it isn't difficult to use, but you may also do a site-search with your favourite search engine if preferred. You'll
often find answers just by reading back a couple of pages in the thread.

My final point - please don't ask questions where the answer requires a crystal ball! :)
Please refrain from using jargon such as "milk float" in your posts. Inevitably it leads to questions asking what it means, as actually happened in this case.

Then follow the answer(s) to the question and the "ok, thanks" message and before you know it we have four or five posts instead of one!

Also, as I requested before - do not ask questions which cannot be answered because they involve future events.
GusB (Moderator(Above)) has previously mentioned the site has a search function. I believe has been discussed before.
 
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eoff

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I noticed that people shared some route map images from the 2000s some time ago. I have a real route map which is quite fragile but I can't work out what date it was, the map data copyright is 1988. It has an advert for private hire of buses/coaches, a service I assume is long gone.
 

OmniCity999

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I noticed that people shared some route map images from the 2000s some time ago. I have a real route map which is quite fragile but I can't work out what date it was, the map data copyright is 1988. It has an advert for private hire of buses/coaches, a service I assume is long gone.
Lothian now run a coach company called Lothian Motorcoaches so the hire side is back. Its also been known that service buses can be sourced through this branch if need be.

I'd bet your map is from around 1988 but if you have any more info fell free to share and I feel our resident Lothian historian @DunsBus will pop up eventually!
 

eoff

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I'd bet your map is from around 1988 but if you have any more info fell free to share and I feel our resident Lothian historian @DunsBus will pop up eventually!

I think I threw out the older copies I had so I would be surprised it is that old. If someone can point me to some routes that are indicators of age then we can work out if it is of any interest.
 

DunsBus

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Lothian now run a coach company called Lothian Motorcoaches so the hire side is back. Its also been known that service buses can be sourced through this branch if need be.

I'd bet your map is from around 1988 but if you have any more info fell free to share and I feel our resident Lothian historian @DunsBus will pop up eventually!
There were three LRT route maps issued during the 1980s, in 1982, 1985 and 1988. The 1982 and 1985 maps have an Atlantean on the cover whilst the 1988 one features an Olympian and includes a Midlothian service map. As I recall, it was issued around the time of the November 1988 service changes and had the updated routes but not the updated route descriptors, so a printed insert was added giving these details.
 

eoff

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IMG_2001.jpg


Image of the map 'cover' when folded. It is double sided. One of the limited stop services is a 73 which I remember getting to Riccarton.
 

stantheman

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I came across an old slide of a green and cream vehicle heading up Lothian Road , it has cityhopper on it ...looks like a minibus . Any suggestions .
 

DunsBus

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I can confirm that it is indeed the 1988 map. At that time the 15 and 75 were operating to Stoneybank and the 26/85/86 to Tranent, whilst Dalkeith was served by the 3, 68, 82/82A, 83, 84 and 89.

The service which definitely dates this map is the 62, SAS to Penicuik. This was a Sunday-only service, run under contract to Lothian Regional Council. Eastern Scottish ran it commercially as the 72 during the week. The 62 started in August 1987 and finished in August 1989, when it was replaced by extending the 15 from Fairmilehead to Penicuik and an evening and Sunday service, the 15A, introduced.
 

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