Transport for Wales 769's

[Plasmanoodle]

No. Nothing in service. One has been working a particular diagram but only up until lunchtime solely between Rhymney and Cardiff. They have been to Penarth, as you say, but only testing or training.

Thank you for the correction, there.

 

[158srule]

769s have run in passenger service to Penarth on Tuesday 15th and Wednesday 16th December on multiple trips. They were also introduced to all day service on the same day although unit failure later in the week meant they only ran for 2 and a bit days. They should be back out next week for training and passenger service.

 

[PHILIPE]

769s have run in passenger service to Penarth on Tuesday 15th and Wednesday 16th December on multiple trips. They were also introduced to all day service on the same day although unit failure later in the week meant they only ran for 2 and a bit days. They should be back out next week for training and passenger service.

Thanks for correcting my post. I wasn't aware as I would have thought the news would have been splashed all around.

Apologies for misleading statement

 

[158srule]

No 769s in passenger service again this week. There will be 2 out on driver training runs Tuesday - Thursday (5Z41-5Z52). Availability a bit low at the minute.

 

[Anonymous10]

No 769s in passenger service again this week. There will be 2 out on driver training runs Tuesday - Thursday (5Z41-5Z52). Availability a bit low at the minute.

hopefully the availability picks up soon

 

[Buzz68]

No 769s in passenger service again this week. There will be 2 out on driver training runs Tuesday - Thursday (5Z41-5Z52). Availability a bit low at the minute.

It will be interesting to see which 2 as before Christmas only 007 was running, with 002, 003, 006 and 008 all having issues. Unless it's one of the first class units 452/445 or 421 as they've not run yet.

 

[158srule]

It will be interesting to see which 2 as before Christmas only 007 was running, with 002, 003, 006 and 008 all having issues. Unless it's one of the first class units 452/445 or 421 as they've not run yet.

It will be 006 / 007 out today. 003 hopefully by end of week but 008 will be middle of next week at earliest and 002 still a couple of weeks away. Might see 452 as well at some point this week / next

 

[Buzz68]

It will be 006 / 007 out today. 003 hopefully by end of week but 008 will be middle of next week at earliest and 002 still a couple of weeks away. Might see 452 as well at some point this week / next

Fab thanks

 

[Wyrleybart]

It will be 006 / 007 out today. 003 hopefully by end of week but 008 will be middle of next week at earliest and 002 still a couple of weeks away. Might see 452 as well at some point this week / next

Amazing. There was me thinking they have just had a comprehensive overhaul at Wabtec, but of course no shakedown afterwards, leaving that to (presumably) TfW to resource, which is different to Northern who were having ROG drivers work their FFR. Presume TfW have signed up for a different deal to Northern Trains nee ARN ?

 

[Senna1210]

Amazing. There was me thinking they have just had a comprehensive overhaul at Wabtec, but of course no shakedown afterwards, leaving that to (presumably) TfW to resource, which is different to Northern who were having ROG drivers work their FFR. Presume TfW have signed up for a different deal to Northern Trains nee ARN ?

They had no overhaul at Wabtec just the flex conversion

 

[Caaardiff]

006 and 007 both failed on Canton today, due to do training runs.

 

[Jamesrob637]

006 and 007 both failed on Canton today, due to do training runs.

Seriously what was the bright idea in converting a unit which was hardly popular in the first place!

 

[Domh245]

Seriously what was the bright idea in converting a unit which was hardly popular in the first place!

Availability primarily. I'm not sure popularity (with whom?) is a particularly relevant metric to use for rolling stock decisions

 

[Darandio]

Seriously what was the bright idea in converting a unit which was hardly popular in the first place!

They are starting to fail with a broken heart due to being unloved?

 

[Caaardiff]

Another failed a day or two ago and had to return to Canton.

In hindsight it would've been easier to pick up a few more 170's and put the training time in to other crew depots to utilise them elsewhere to free up 150's and 153s (West Wales?), or even exchange some 170's with another TOC for some 150's. The 170's aren't fully utilised and currently restricted to certain routes.
It seems TfW must be tied in somehow or overcommitted to the project to not give up on them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There aren't a "few more 170s" to pick up - everyone wants them!

 

[Energy]

There aren't a "few more 170s" to pick up - everyone wants them!

Weren't there the WMR ones?

 

[PHILIPE]

Weren't there the WMR ones?

They are going to EMR

 

[craigybagel]

There aren't a "few more 170s" to pick up - everyone wants them!

And ironically enough the TfW 170s aren't especially suited to the routes they're being used on now, or the ones they're due to go to in the future. Plenty of more suitable stock out there - including the units currently used by TfW with no future.

Anyway, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If the 769s were working in the timescale that was promised, and were as reliable as promised, nobody would have been questioning they're acquisition. ATW were desperate for stock, and that was all that was available. We can all assume if they'd known how things would pan out they wouldn't have bothered but life doesn't work like that....

 

[Richard Scott]

In hindsight it would've been easier to pick up a few more 170's and put the training time in to other crew depots to utilise them elsewhere to free up 150's and 153s (West Wales?), or even exchange some 170's with another TOC for some 150's. The 170's aren't fully utilised and currently restricted to certain routes.
It seems TfW must be tied in somehow or overcommitted to the project to not give up on them.

170s aren't really suited to stop/start work. Gearing is too high leading to poor acceleration and excessive fuel consumption.

 

[PHILIPE]

170s aren't really suited to stop/start work. Gearing is too high leading to poor acceleration and excessive fuel consumption.

They get a little running on the Cheltenham route which is part of the route that the XC ones run, but Maesteg and Ebbw Vale short distance between frequent stops
.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And ironically enough the TfW 170s aren't especially suited to the routes they're being used on now, or the ones they're due to go to in the future. Plenty of more suitable stock out there - including the units currently used by TfW with no future.

Doubly ironically, they are routes for which the 197 would be suitable, with the 170s on the regional expresses they were built for!

 

[Richard Scott]

They get a little running on the Cheltenham route which is part of the route that the XC ones run, but Maesteg and Ebbw Vale short distance between frequent stops
.

True but even then their 100mph top speed is useless, think highest line speed is 90mph and that's only a short stretch of line.

 

[Wyrleybart]

They are going to EMR

Minus their centre cars which have gone to XC
DfT still expecting some 171s to be replaced by something with batteries so they can join EMR.
The sensible move would have been to buy some more 195s from CAF for Northern to release their ex ScR 170s to go to EMR

170s aren't really suited to stop/start work. Gearing is too high leading to poor acceleration and excessive fuel consumption.

Tis true, but perhaps either of the repower plans being developed might spread their wings and allow TfW a an opportunity.

 

[Caaardiff]

170s aren't really suited to stop/start work. Gearing is too high leading to poor acceleration and excessive fuel consumption.

This is very true and surprising that it wasn't factored in when they were taken on. They are planned to stay long term too and work down West & HOW.
The initial plan for 170s, 230s and 769s may have seemed a bright idea at the time, and possibly the only idea at the time, but certainly hasnt gone to plan.
Give Northern all the 170s in exchange for 150s or even 158s until the new trains start arriving!
There's 12 170s and probably only about 6-7 in use at most on one day (pre-covid). At least with a more uniform fleet of 150s or 158s there would be less out for maintenance and no more crew training is required, with better usage to cover 769s.

 

[Wolfie]

This is very true and surprising that it wasn't factored in when they were taken on. They are planned to stay long term too and work down West & HOW.
The initial plan for 170s, 230s and 769s may have seemed a bright idea at the time, and possibly the only idea at the time, but certainly hasnt gone to plan.
Give Northern all the 170s in exchange for 150s or even 158s until the new trains start arriving!
There's 12 170s and probably only about 6-7 in use at most on one day (pre-covid). At least with a more uniform fleet of 150s or 158s there would be less out for maintenance and no more crew training is required, with better usage to cover 769s.

Most of Northern's existing 170s are used on equally unsuitable routes.

 

[Bikeman78]

This is very true and surprising that it wasn't factored in when they were taken on. They are planned to stay long term too and work down West & HOW.
The initial plan for 170s, 230s and 769s may have seemed a bright idea at the time, and possibly the only idea at the time, but certainly hasnt gone to plan.
Give Northern all the 170s in exchange for 150s or even 158s until the new trains start arriving!
There's 12 170s and probably only about 6-7 in use at most on one day (pre-covid). At least with a more uniform fleet of 150s or 158s there would be less out for maintenance and no more crew training is required, with better usage to cover 769s.

It's ironic that there are 170s pottering along to Maesteg and Ebbw Vale whilst there are 150s hammering up and down the Marches every day.

 

[GWRrrr]

Does anybody know the nature of the problems that are causing the failures? (preferably facts and not speculation )

Thanks

 

[craigybagel]

Doubly ironically, they are routes for which the 197 would be suitable, with the 170s on the regional expresses they were built for!

Indeed!

True but even then their 100mph top speed is useless, think highest line speed is 90mph and that's only a short stretch of line.

95 between Cardiff and Newport - but a 170 won't be able to sustain those speeds for very long

It's ironic that there are 170s pottering along to Maesteg and Ebbw Vale whilst there are 150s hammering up and down the Marches every day.

Very true. And whilst I understand the reasons behind it, it's also very frustrating.

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm not sure which TFW 769 unit it was but one was provided for training runs today.