New national restrictions in Scotland

[RomeoCharlie71]

The trouble is that even if a decision were taken to close schools, this then introduces the massive logistical problem that all of a sudden half the working population have childcare problems and then can’t attend work.

We also need to be extremely mindful of a generation of children growing up with their development stifled by all this. Last year’s fiasco over exams was bad enough.

Schools are already closed until 18th January instead of going back between the 5th and 7th.

Return to education delayed until 11th January, whereby it will be online for at least a week.

 

[Richard Scott]

Whilst I am overwhelmingly supportive of education being as near to normal as possible, I am not going to tolerate the public being used a scapegoat when schools are a breeding ground for infections. It is ludicrous to think that the general population will be succumbed to strict restrictions whilst school children can roam free without physical distancing, socialise with friends, etc.

We really need some good solid evidence for that because afraid I've not seen it. Children's education is hugely important and has been interrupted enough. It cannot be interrupted anymore otherwise they'll end up losing another serious amount of time in school. Don't forget they are our future and will pay our pensions. Politicians need to stop fussing about infection numbers especially amongst youngsters as they contribute next to no increase in hospitalisation. And before we harp on about Granny again then Granny needs to take care of herself.
Lastly, online education is no substitute for being in a classroom, whatever anyone says.

 

[bramling]

Schools are already closed until 18th January instead of going back between the 5th and 7th.

Return to education delayed until 11th January, whereby it will be online for at least a week.

So what are people expected to do for childcare? They can hardly leave the kids with granny at the moment.

Another thing which hasn’t been thought through.

 

[PG]

There was also this quote...
Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie voiced concerns about NHS boards cancelling "ever greater numbers" of non-urgent procedures, with the first minister saying the return of elective treatment relied on suppressing the virus as far as possible.

...which implies that elective treatment is stopped during level 4 restrictions? I didn't think that was the case.

Looking at a P&J report today headlined Ambulances forced to wait three hours outside Aberdeen Royal Infirmary due to bed shortage it appears that elective treatments have indeed been cancelled/postponed.

Health staff across the north-east have been struggling to cope with rising Covid-19 cases in recent weeks with more than 100 operations cancelled due to the pressure.

Now the strengthened infection control measures are causing a backlog of ambulances waiting to drop off patients.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

No, only London and the South East are moving into Tier 4. Areas currently in tier 1, 2 and 3 (that were not moved from 2 to 3 today) are unaffected. Wales were already destined for a nationwide lockdown post-Christmas.

The Scottish blanket approach of level 4 everywhere on the mainland is crazy and ludicrous, particularly in areas such as the Highlands, Moray and maybe even Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire, where there are an (under-)estimated 17 cases of the new "strain" in Scotland, in the Glasgow area.

And even then, not all of the South East is in Tier 4. For example where I live (West Sussex) we are staying in Tier 2, and I am so happy about that.

 

[Kite159]

And, of course, more people crowding into the remaining open places.

The politicians need to get into their heads that people are no longer prepared to sit at home looking at four walls like they were last March. They are going to go out, and there aren’t enough police resources to stop them even if they wanted to.

The focus therefore needs to be to keep as much open as possible, which has the added benefit of keeping as many businesses going as possible.

We’re very much into cure being worse than disease territory.

The first lockdown period March - June/July was mostly good weather, bar a couple days where it was a tad wet, which allowed people to escape into their gardens (if they had gardens) to get away from the 4 walls of being stuck indoors. Also the days were long which allowed for those people to head out for longer walks etc.

A January lockdown, where the weather could be a bit cold, a bit wet, where you can't really sit outside in gardens. The hours of light are shorter and the ground conditions in some places could be muddy or waterlogged, which makes walking a bit harder (especially if it's a narrow path where no alternative is available)

 

[bramling]

The first lockdown period March - June/July was mostly good weather, bar a couple days where it was a tad wet, which allowed people to escape into their gardens (if they had gardens) to get away from the 4 walls of being stuck indoors. Also the days were long which allowed for those people to head out for longer walks etc.

A January lockdown, where the weather could be a bit cold, a bit wet, where you can't really sit outside in gardens. The hours of light are shorter and the ground conditions in some places could be muddy or waterlogged, which makes walking a bit harder (especially if it's a narrow path where no alternative is available)

Agreed entirely. Round here all the rural footpaths have been completely wrecked by the combination of rain and increased usage. Most are virtually impassable without boots, so aren’t a particularly pleasant experience.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

No, only London and the South East are moving into Tier 4. Areas currently in tier 1, 2 and 3 (that were not moved from 2 to 3 today) are unaffected. Wales were already destined for a nationwide lockdown post-Christmas.

The Scottish blanket approach of level 4 everywhere on the mainland is crazy and ludicrous, particularly in areas such as the Highlands, Moray and maybe even Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire, where there are an (under-)estimated 17 cases of the new "strain" in Scotland, in the Glasgow area.

P.S. I defiently agree with you that these restrictions are pointless.

 

[devon_metro]

Has any evidence been published that garden centres are a high risk location for catching covid? Whilst we're at it, has any evidence been published that having an alcoholic drink with my pre-6pm meal is causing mass spread of the virus? It'a almost as if within the walls of St Andrew's House there is a competition to devise the most ridiculous rules. I really feel they've already lost the public. I think most people are happy to follow sensible restrictions because we recognise vulnerable people may catch the virus. But when rules are so clearly not based on science, you just get people breaking them, which is just counter productive. Hospitality closed in Edinburgh for months = people gathering in houses. It's not going to change because Strurgeon is putting things into law. Time to treat us like adults.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I think the idea is that all these rules dissuade people from leaving home, thus not spreading the virus.

It's not working.

 

[Huntergreed]

I’ve been growing anger for Nicola Sturgeon in the last few months, however the way she has frankly abused the law in the last week is downright disgusting.

The fact it is now illegal to leave the country for the most part really, really doesn’t sit right with me. Only dictatorship states ever impose restrictions on freedom of movement with regards to leaving the country. I would like to know her proper argument for the justification of this (and no, stopping a highly transmissible, fairly low-risk respiratory virus is not good enough in my view).

Worse than that, the fact she is again writing into law that it will be illegal to leave your home. The power has gone to her head. It’s clear that she’s lost a lot of support, and she knows the only way she can get people to follow it (to drive down cases and make her look good to strengthen her independence campaign) is to legislate it. That said, this is a disgusting abuse of leadership and power. I’m in tier 1 (which is, still, extremely restrictive compared to normal), and am being forced into tier 4 as a precaution. I would argue no politician or leader has a right to revoke the freedom of their citizens as a “precaution”, it’s clear that they’re waiting on the vaccine being rolled out so she can say she did a great job and “saved Scotland”, but it’s not at all justified or proportionate.

 

[kez19]

I’ve been growing anger for Nicola Sturgeon in the last few months, however the way she has frankly abused the law in the last week is downright disgusting.

The fact it is now illegal to leave the country for the most part really, really doesn’t sit right with me. Only dictatorship states ever impose restrictions on freedom of movement with regards to leaving the country. I would like to know her proper argument for the justification of this (and no, stopping a highly transmissible, fairly low-risk respiratory virus is not good enough in my view).

Worse than that, the fact she is again writing into law that it will be illegal to leave your home. The power has gone to her head. It’s clear that she’s lost a lot of support, and she knows the only way she can get people to follow it (to drive down cases and make her look good to strengthen her independence campaign) is to legislate it. That said, this is a disgusting abuse of leadership and power. I’m in tier 1 (which is, still, extremely restrictive compared to normal), and am being forced into tier 4 as a precaution. I would argue no politician or leader has a right to revoke the freedom of their citizens as a “precaution”, it’s clear that they’re waiting on the vaccine being rolled out so she can say she did a great job and “saved Scotland”, but it’s not at all justified or proportionate.

The thing I would argue is if she is to make it illegal for people to leave home then by all means apply to they themselves? Oh wait it’ll never happen as again politicians are one step ahead in the game.

It will eventually backfire, you can only keep this going for so long that the public will turn on you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2020 ==

I think the idea is that all these rules dissuade people from leaving home, thus not spreading the virus.

It's not working.

You could say another way... society stands still/shuts down (personally speaking)

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Of course she will insist on travelling to Edinburgh each day to make her party political broadcast daily briefing at 12.15pm sharp because it's for "work purposes".

If she is expecting school children to use video conferencing and other forms of online learning delivery, then she can deliver her broadcasts and carry out cabinet meetings/FMQs that way too.

 

[kez19]

Of course she will insist on travelling to Edinburgh each day to make her party political broadcast daily briefing at 12.15pm sharp because it's for "work purposes".

If she is expecting school children to use video conferencing and other forms of online learning delivery, then she can deliver her broadcasts and carry out cabinet meetings/FMQs that way too.

Nailed it!

Or why not just zoom/skype her broadcasts from her residence (wherever that is)... This is also why I find it lets just say a double standard in all things with rules/regulations - you expect the public to do what you ask but yet you (politician) don't do it.


As I mentioned before in terms of masks indoors - if you expect public to wear them in shops etc, then by logic for me you lot (politicans) should be doing the exact same in Holyrood/House of Commons (or meetings shown on BBC Parliament) etc - it makes a complete mockery, but lets make the public accountable for their actions than the politicians own actions.

 

[Kite159]

Nailed it!

Or why not just zoom/skype her broadcasts from her residence (wherever that is)... This is also why I find it lets just say a double standard in all things with rules/regulations - you expect the public to do what you ask but yet you (politician) don't do it.


As I mentioned before in terms of masks indoors - if you expect public to wear them in shops etc, then by logic for me you lot (politicans) should be doing the exact same in Holyrood/House of Commons (or meetings shown on BBC Parliament) etc - it makes a complete mockery, but lets make the public accountable for their actions than the politicians own actions.

Agreed, masks on in parliament unless they are speaking. Similar to the French (I think)

 

[kez19]

Agreed, masks on in parliament unless they are speaking. Similar to the French (I think)

I think in the US they are doing it, but this should have been implemented when it was brought about, actually nah lets have them keeping the masks on whilst speaking (I have to do it in care.. so no politicians do the same... fair game to me!)

 

[DB]

I think in the US they are doing it, but this should have been implemented when it was brought about, actually nah lets have them keeping the masks on whilst speaking (I have to do it in care.. so no politicians do the same... fair game to me!)

The US has a militant maskivist as the incoming president - he makes even Sturgeon look moderate on the subject by comparison!

 

[kez19]

The US has a militant maskivist as the incoming president - he makes even Sturgeon look moderate on the subject by comparison!

Don't worry I don't agree with masks here! .... I just see the double standards at play

I can see the Americans going with this for so long (masks) then it'll backfire - whats that saying? Actions have consequences? Maybe 2021 MAY be the turn around in all this (hopefully)

 

[Butts]

Can't we get rid of her and give Ruth Davidson a go ?

It amazes me how all the measures she introduces seem to have so much public support....

Talk about Turkey's voting for Christmas.

We should be aware that the polls indicate Scotland heading for an "Elective Dictatorship" (Independence) with her at the helm.

Living in a level 2 area (Falkirk) glad I can still escape tomorrow onto English Soil....until the 27th.

When I get back looks like Oflag IV C would me more welcoming and liberally run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2020 ==




Well Sturgeons "Ring of Steel" does not extend to Edinburgh Airport.

Flew down to Birmingham this afternoon on an A320 with 14.....yes 14 other passengers !!

Flights were also scheduled to LHR, STN, LGW, BRS, LTN....wonder if they were all as empty as mine.

No Police in sight and no questions asked by anyone at any stage as to the reason for your journey.

Don't know what I was worrying about.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2020 ==

Can't we get rid of her and give Ruth Davidson a go ?

It amazes me how all the measures she introduces seem to have so much public support....

Talk about Turkey's voting for Christmas.

We should be aware that the polls indicate Scotland heading for an "Elective Dictatorship" (Independence) with her at the helm.

Living in a level 2 area (Falkirk) glad I can still escape tomorrow onto English Soil....until the 27th.

When I get back looks like Oflag IV C would me more welcoming and liberally run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2020 ==




Well Sturgeons "Ring of Steel" does not extend to Edinburgh Airport.

Flew down to Birmingham this afternoon on an A320 with 14.....yes 14 other passengers !!

Flights were also scheduled to LHR, STN, LGW, BRS, LTN....wonder if they were all as empty as mine.

No Police in sight and no questions asked by anyone at any stage as to the reason for your journey.

Don't know what I was worrying about.

Update !!!

 

[Wynd]

Can't we get rid of her and give Ruth Davidson a go ?

It amazes me how all the measures she introduces seem to have so much public support....

Talk about Turkey's voting for Christmas.

We should be aware that the polls indicate Scotland heading for an "Elective Dictatorship" (Independence) with her at the helm.

In the interests of providing a little balance here.

Are you suggesting the democratically elected government be overthrown and someone who has been repeatedly rejected at the ballot box installed?

That sounds a lot like an elective dictatorship....

Are you suggesting the Scottish public are turkeys for following life saving advice? Is that respectuful in tone?

Its also an interesting supposition that NS should lead an Independent Scotland. Independence, when you think about it, kills the SNP, in those famous labour words, stone dead. Similar to UKIP/Brexit.

 

[devon_metro]

Are you suggesting the democratically elected government be overthrown and someone who has been repeatedly rejected at the ballot box installed?

That sounds a lot like an elective dictatorship....

Are you suggesting the Scottish public are turkeys for following life saving advice? Is that respectuful in tone?

The "democratically elected" (they don't have a majority) government seems to forget democratic votes when it comes to other matters of course. They seem happy to want to overthrow that.

Many of the government's policies regarding coronavirus are unlikely to save lives. Too many people blindly accept what the government is saying. Highland in Level 4? Mad.

 

[Wynd]

Majority of what? Seats? Votes?

You can’t be democratically elected without a majority?

Which democratic votes have the SNP forgotten?
Are you saying that because you consider it undemocratic already, we might as well throw out the current administration and install one that people have rejected?
Not a democratically based thesis I must say.

These policies are already saving lives. Infections are now the lowest in the U.K. proportionally by some margin.
Is it mad when we have 2 new strains now to contend with?
It feels draconian il agree, but in time it may be called prudent or wise. Let’s see how it plays out.

 

[Scotrail12]

These policies are already saving lives. Infections are now the lowest in the U.K. proportionally by some margin.

Which policies exactly?

 

[Journeyman]

The SNP persistently ignore the opinions and wishes of those opposed to independence, because they don't need their votes to get into power.

 

[Scotrail12]

It feels draconian il agree, but in time it may be called prudent or wise.

Prudent and wise if you're not going to be remotely financially affected or have your physical or mental health affected. The moment that furlough scheme is lifted, there is absolutely 0 chance of people looking at these measures as wise.

 

[DB]

Majority of what? Seats? Votes?

You can’t be democratically elected without a majority?

Which democratic votes have the SNP forgotten?
Are you saying that because you consider it undemocratic already, we might as well throw out the current administration and install one that people have rejected?
Not a democratically based thesis I must say.

These policies are already saving lives. Infections are now the lowest in the U.K. proportionally by some margin.

We don't need another party political broadcast, thanks!

And there is no evidence linking restrictive policies with low rates of infection - you have already been given Europe-wide stats on another thread showing this last time you made the claim.

 

[Wynd]

Mm back to accusations of being in a party by asking questions? We went over this, projection of polarised views only exposes the accuser, not the inquisitor.

Well, if restrictions aren’t saving lives, I’m misreading all of the evidence available to me.

 

[Scotrail12]

Deleted.

 

[DB]

Mm back to accusations of being in a party by asking questions? We went over this, projection of polarised views only exposes the accuser, not the inquisitor.

Well, if restrictions aren’t saving lives, I’m misreading all of the evidence available to me.

You are very clearly pushing a pro SNP line.

I refer you back to post 204 in this thread, where your claim that infection rates directly correlated with high restrictions was thoroughly debunked by actual data.

 

[devon_metro]

Which democratic votes have the SNP forgotten?
Are you saying that because you consider it undemocratic already, we might as well throw out the current administration and install one that people have rejected?
Not a democratically based thesis I must say.

These policies are already saving lives. Infections are now the lowest in the U.K. proportionally by some margin.
Is it mad when we have 2 new strains now to contend with?
It feels draconian il agree, but in time it may be called prudent or wise. Let’s see how it plays out.

There was a vote in 2014 with a clear majority which unfortunately still takes up too much air time with a rabid obsession by the SNP to overturn.

I am not at all suggesting Ruth Davidson should be installed. The SNP won the most number of seats so has the right to form a government. It doesn't necessarilly make it the will of the people - fewer than 50% of those that voted chose the SNP.

In terms of coronavirus policies. On the most recent data, Scotland's death rate is only marginally lower than England's, despite significantly lower rates of infection (40.6 deaths per 1m verus 44.9 week ending 11 Dec. Meanwhile cases were roughly half). So what's going wrong? It sounds to me as if her policies aren't working or saving lives.