Travelling across London - how complicated can it be?!

[Pumbaa]

I'm pretty sure the answer lies in Oyster, but here is my question.

Travelling from Hemel Hempstead to Orpington; travel Tues morning , return Thurs afternoon during off-peak. Only day returns seem available as paper tickets, so what is the acceptable combinations of Oyster and paper tickets?

HML is outside Travelcard zones, ORP lies within. I don't have any seasons anymore, just a PAYG Oyster.

Thoughts and help please!

 

[yorkie]

Either get an Off Peak Return to Sevenoaks (£27.00 or 17.80 with a Railcard) or get singles between HML and HRW (CDS £6.40 SDS £6.80), and use PAYG from HRW (you will do well to get back on the same train though - it may be possible if you get off at the optimum set of doors and can run up & down the stairs to the footbridge in time!)

 

[John @ home]

travel Tues morning

What time on Tuesday morning? Even if it would be a peak fare when you leave Hemel, it may qualify for off-peak from somewhere else.

Only day returns seem available as paper tickets

No. Day Travelcards are also available as paper tickets:

• Hemel Hempstead - London Zones 1-6 ODT £17.00 (arrive London at or after 1000, don't depart London 1645-1845)
• Hemel Hempstead - London Zones 1-6 ADT £21.40 (valid any train)

what is the acceptable combinations of Oyster and paper tickets?

There are several. The cheapest depends on your time of travel.

 

[Pumbaa]

Either get an Off Peak Return to Sevenoaks (£27.00 or 17.80 with a Railcard) or get singles between HML and HRW (CDS £6.40 SDS £6.80), and use PAYG from HRW (you will do well to get back on the same train though - it may be possible if you get off at the optimum set of doors and can run up & down the stairs to the footbridge in time!)

Thanks for that yorkie - I've tried Harrow and its near impossible. On Saturdays, when the SN service to Clapham runs ahead of a HRW stopper its possible with a 7 min wait at Harrow, but weekdays gives you a 20 min wait.

The Sevenoaks ticket looks like a good shout though - cheers for that!

What time on Tuesday morning? Even if it would be a peak fare when you leave Hemel, it may qualify for off-peak from somewhere else.No. Day Travelcards are also available as paper tickets:

• Hemel Hempstead - London Zones 1-6 ODT £17.00 (arrive London at or after 1000, don't depart London 1645-1845)
• Hemel Hempstead - London Zones 1-6 ADT £21.40 (valid any train)

There are several. The cheapest depends on your time of travel.

I would be leaving after 1000. And return the Thurs after about 1400.

Were there ever cross-london return tickets to somewhere within a travelcard zone? Or is this an exception? If this is the result of the introduction of Oyster across National Rail services, it is a pretty big drawback for 'integrated travel'.

I would be tempted to drive, but I'm carless for a few weeks now!

 

[MikeWh]

Be aware that the tube may be disrupted on Tuesday because of industrial action.

According to the single fare finder on the TfL website it is only 50p more expensive off-peak each way from Watford Junction to Orpington (£4.80) compared to Harrow & Wealdstone to Orpington (£4.30). You can reduce this even further if you are prepared to travel via Willesden Junction, West Hampstead and London Bridge rather than Euston -> tube -> Charing Cross/London Bridge. If the tube is bad this may well be the better option anyway. The fares come down to £3.50/£3.20. If you do this you must touch on the pink route validators at Willesden Junction. Singles from Hemel to Watford are only £4.30 off peak/£4.60 anytime.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks for that yorkie - I've tried Harrow and its near impossible. On Saturdays, when the SN service to Clapham runs ahead of a HRW stopper its possible with a 7 min wait at Harrow, but weekdays gives you a 20 min wait.

But you don't need to wait for the following LM 20 minutes later; there is the LO stopping service every 20 minutes from the other side of the station, plus - if the strike doesn't disrupt it - the Bakerloo at every 5 mins or so in between the LOs. And the Bakerloo runs direct to Charing Cross, from where you can get an Orpington train.

( Note - Embankment is actually slightly less walking to Charing Cross main line station than Charing cross tube is...!! )

 

[yorkie]

But you don't need to wait for the following LM 20 minutes later; there is the LO stopping service every 20 minutes from the other side of the station, plus - if the strike doesn't disrupt it - the Bakerloo at every 5 mins or so in between the LOs. And the Bakerloo runs direct to Charing Cross, from where you can get an Orpington train.

( Note - Embankment is actually slightly less walking to Charing Cross main line station than Charing cross tube is...!! )

OK the Bakerloo example isn't bad, but the idea of getting an LO to Euston instead of waiting for a fast train doesn't take into account the fact that the stoppers take absolutely ages! The only time that this is worth doing (if going to Euston) on a standard off peak timetable, would be if you are on the xx54 into HRW, and then get the xx57 LO. The other 2 trains per hour are both overtaken by the fast trains. The xx57 only gets to Euston 8 mins ahead of the next fast train half an hour later. Personally I'd rather wait for the fast (although it's a less attractive proposition now that the traction through the station is so boring! Half an hour at HRW in the days of 87s would be aright!)

The Bakerloo takes 50 mins to Elephant & Castle, so deduct a few mins for Charing Cross, it's quite slow compared to a fast train to Euston and then Northern Line to LBG. There are more trains (stoppers) from LBG to Orpington, but I accept that, unless there is disruption, there isn't going to be any advantage in getting a stopper.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, but you could use the LO part the way in order to gain 5 minutes on the next Bakerloo as half the Bakerloos start from Queen's Park.

Having said that, I did recently compare the two routes from Queen's Park to Waterloo and it was actually 5 minutes faster to get the LO to Euston and then the Northern Line to Waterloo. That's "platform to platform" so it includes the time taken to connect at Euston ( via the short cut straight ahead from the LO platforms at Euston ).