New 4-tier system for England

[bramling]

If nothing else, all of this has taught us another Johnson character trait. We knew he was a selfish charlatan (pro-remain then pro-Brexit when he saw he had more to gain), we knew he had no attention to detail, we knew his personal morals were bankrupt (multiple affairs, the Darius Guppy thing). We now know he’s spineless and stupid. How a politician in such uncertain times can choose, without any pressure, to repeatedly make themselves hostages to fortune is beyond me. It’ll all be fine by Easter. Yeah, whatever.

Because, quite simply, bull****ing his way through life is ingrained into his personality. When one sees Stanley Johnson speak it’s easy to see where his son picked it up from.

I think everyone hoped Boris’s bumbling persona was a facade, behind which lay a shrewd individual. Sadly that’s been proved not to be the case.

How did we ever come to a situation where the two choices for PM were Johnson and Corbyn?

 

[Yew]

I don't like lockdown and I think it is doing more harm than good now both to business and individuals. However, let's not start playing down this virus as 'just a seasonal virus', as this kind of statement encourages complacency. It isn't seasonal, it has been prevalent throughout the year; more so in colder months but only the first lockdown got the case numbers right down for Summer. It is also much worse than flu, we can see this through the number of people admitted to hospital and those becoming seriously ill.

Seasonal flu has not led to hospitals being stretched to the point where routine operations are postponed for many months and more seriously cancer treatment and referrals being delayed, like covid has done.

Isn't that the definition of seasonality?

 

[Crossover]

Interesting to see the messages below that, it's obviously going to be in the media tomorrow.

I was reading the messages on there. ‘Nice’ to see divide and conquer rules the roost...

I’d be more bothered about the train being packed, completely unnecessarily.

As you say, if it’s so spreadable as is being claimed then it must surely be right round the country already.

Something isn’t right about this.

Plenty people on that Twitter post basically ‘thanking’ those in the train for spreading it and guaranteeing Tier 4 for other parts of the country

 

[gaillark]

If nothing else, all of this has taught us another Johnson character trait. We knew he was a selfish charlatan (pro-remain then pro-Brexit when he saw he had more to gain), we knew he had no attention to detail, we knew his personal morals were bankrupt (multiple affairs, the Darius Guppy thing). We now know he’s spineless and stupid. How a politician in such uncertain times can choose, without any pressure, to repeatedly make themselves hostages to fortune is beyond me. It’ll all be fine by Easter. Yeah, whatever.

Did he not also say sometime in June of this of this year that by October or early November 2020 Britain will be back to normal with everything reopened and no restrictions.

 

[bramling]

The longer they can drag this out, the longer they can delay the public inquiry in which they are all found to be criminally liable for hundreds of thousands of deaths.

Out of interest, could the likes of Whitty ever realistically be held legally liable? His role is only as an adviser, after all. Then there will be the massive blame contest between what was advised versus what was actually done.

 

[yorksrob]

I presume you wouldn't mind being in that 1% then?

I wouldn't want it, no, but taken with measures such as only mixing with my own bubble, avoiding crowds, I would be more than prepared to take that risk.

This needs to be strongly asserted once the vulnerable sections of society have been vaccinated.

 

[bramling]

I was reading the messages on there. ‘Nice’ to see divide and conquer rules the roost...



Plenty people on that Twitter post basically ‘thanking’ those in the train for spreading it and guaranteeing Tier 4 for other parts of the country

What about all the other trains which have headed north from STP since, er, September?!

 

[SuspectUsual]

Did he not also say sometime in June of this of this year that by October or early November 2020 Britain will be back to normal with everything reopened and no restrictions.

Probably. I just lose track of the nonsense he comes out with.

 

[gaillark]

Probably. I just lose track of the nonsense he comes out with.

Me too.

 

[yorksrob]

I was reading the messages on there. ‘Nice’ to see divide and conquer rules the roost...



Plenty people on that Twitter post basically ‘thanking’ those in the train for spreading it and guaranteeing Tier 4 for other parts of the country

Indeed. Sad and pathetic that some sections of the population are prepared to entertain this narrative.

 

[jtuk]

Out of interest, could the likes of Whitty ever realistically be held legally liable? His role is only as an adviser, after all. Then there will be the massive blame contest between what was advised versus what was actually done.

I'm not sure about Whitty. Pinning corporate manslaughter on Hancock however would be a trivial task for any half competent barrister

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

why can't we work at home as we only need a normal windows computer 99% of the time and we don't really need to be in a classroom, it's just unnecessary risk in my eyes, made worse by the fact face coverings aren't mandatory in classrooms and 2m distancing is not done either.

Well, I am a student taking A Level English Language, English Literature and Drama and I completely refute this. A good third of Drama practical performances which cannot be rehearsed at home, let alone performed alongside other group members at home.

The other two might not require physically being in a classroom to some but my studies went to pot in lockdown as I lack the motivation and self-discipline to work at home. I find it incredibly hard to concentrate at home with all of my things distracting me and as a result procrastinate, which leads to bad A Levels in the summer.

Being absent from my friends and normal life at sixth form played havoc with my mental health, to the point where I was almost a different person. I need not tell you I wasn’t the only one. When the school re-opened for me I appreciated it so much more than I did before.

Being in school may not matter for some but it is very important for me and many others. We take good social distancing measures and all of Year 13 are in a bubble, as are other year groups. There have been minimal cases of COVID in the 1000ish student in the school and sixth form. This is why I am thankful that Mr Johnson has not closed them or let them being affected by these tiers.

 

[bramling]

Indeed. Sad and pathetic that some sections of the population are prepared to entertain this narrative.

This whole thing has served to amplify undercurrents which already existed. Remember all the “stop spreading germs in our village” stuff from the spring aimed at townies? It’s simply the usual situation of people not seeing beyond the end of their noses - I take it all these village dwellers *never* leave their village? Otherwise it’s a bit pot kettle black.

 

[initiation]

but only the first lockdown got the case numbers right down for Summer.

If that is true why did cases not rise when lockdown was released? Remember the Bournemouth beaches, super Saturday in July? Nothing...

I presume you wouldn't mind being in that 1% then?

Just to note more like <0.5%.
In any case, we take risks all the time and balance these against the benefits. For some reason the government are obsessed with mandating this aspect of our lives.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Interestingly, when we were on holiday in west Wales this summer, twice my dad bought wine (once from Pembroke Dock Tesco, the other from Saundersfoot Tesco Express), used the self-service checkouts, and we didn't even need a member of staff to verify age; the machine just accepted it!

Remote monitoring is pretty widespread now (driven by the never ending desire for efficiency aka staff cuts)

I take it all these village dwellers *never* leave their village?

We’re too busy burning wickermen to leave

 

[bramling]

I'm not sure about Whitty. Pinning corporate manslaughter on Hancock however would be a trivial task for any half competent barrister

I can picture him in the dock, either bursting into tiers (how appropriate!), or having some kind of tantrum.

I suppose Hancock is the one who ultimately carries the can, being Secretary of State for healthy.

Ironically I think he actually has been one of the ones who has made a genuine effort in all of this, just that he’s a man so utterly out of his depth, and no amount of enthusiasm will make up for that.

Boris would no doubt pass the buck in any legal proceedings.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Secretary of State for healthy

In Hancock’s dreams

 

[scrapy]

I've not made my mind up yet about the Joe Anderson saga, as he has been a good leader for Liverpool.

However, 30 miles down the M62, Andy Burnham is anything but good. If he doesn't step down now, he is goosed anyway at the May elections.

CJ

Do you really think Greater Manchester will vote Conservative instead with the constant restrictions the county has been under?

 

[bramling]

In Hancock’s dreams

Oops!

 

[yorksrob]

This whole thing has served to amplify undercurrents which already existed. Remember all the “stop spreading germs in our village” stuff from the spring aimed at townies? It’s simply the usual situation of people not seeing beyond the end of their noses - I take it all these village dwellers *never* leave their village? Otherwise it’s a bit pot kettle black.

There is undoubtedly an element of that.

Speaking as someone in tier three with the old fashioned version of the virus (who knows - it might be more deadly than the new one) I'm not going to decry people for returning home.

 

[DB]

I don't like lockdown and I think it is doing more harm than good now both to business and individuals. However, let's not start playing down this virus as 'just a seasonal virus', as this kind of statement encourages complacency. It isn't seasonal, it has been prevalent throughout the year; more so in colder months but only the first lockdown got the case numbers right down for Summer. It is also much worse than flu, we can see this through the number of people admitted to hospital and those becoming seriously ill.

Seasonal flu has not led to hospitals being stretched to the point where routine operations are postponed for many months and more seriously cancer treatment and referrals being delayed, like covid has done.

Flu and colds are around all year too - just far more prevalent in winter, as with Covid.

It's not actually much worse than a bad flu year. Hospitals aren't much busier than normal at this time of year, and a lot of the cancellations earlier in the year were a knee jerk over reaction. Excess deaths were below the five year average for a lot of the summer.

There's also little evidence that the summer decrease was primarily due to the lockdown - the warmer weather is likely to be more significant. It is noticeable that the winter lockdowns in various countries seem to be having at most a fairly small effects in slowing down the spread.

 

[gaillark]

I'm not sure about Whitty. Pinning corporate manslaughter on Hancock however would be a trivial task for any half competent barrister

There is a competition amongst our politicians in who can be the most draconian. God help us if Sturgeon was PM. Everybody would be under house arrest. Hancock would plead that he was only following orders.

 

[bramling]

There is undoubtedly an element of that.

Speaking as someone in tier three with the old fashioned version of the virus (who knows - it might be more deadly than the new one) I'm not going to decry people for returning home.

So you haven’t had the upgrade to Covid 2.1 yet?

We have down here, must be the north being left out again?

 

[yorksrob]

So you haven’t had the upgrade to Covid 2.1 yet?

We have down here, must be the north being left out again?

No, I prefer COVID XP

(for anyone viewing, that's a Window's joke - not a vaccine microchip conspiracy theory etc thing).

 

[bramling]

No, I prefer COVID XP

Service pack 2, with built-in GPS and satellite navigation.

Seriously, this is so unbelievable it’s hard to believe it’s actually real.

 

[yorksrob]

Service pack 2, with built-in GPS and satellite navigation.

Seriously, this is so unbelievable it’s hard to believe it’s actually real.

Yes, that sounds like a few windows upgrades I've had

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No they are not realists, this isn't the plague or smallpox. None of their figures have ever come close to being realistic so afraid they have little credibility. You carry on believing it if you want to and continue with the one horse race. A number of us have realised long ago all these measures were over the top and causing harm elsewhere. The virus us not the only show in town.

There is a good point about this; that there has been such bad handling and over-reaction from multiple governments over this coronavirus, with so many people completely fed up with it and now ignoring things compliance will be very low indeed when a far more dangerous pandemic with mortality north of 50% comes along - which it will one day - that would justify draconian measures. At that point, nobody will comply until it is far too late.

Depends what the legislation actually says when they publish it at 11.59 on the evening before it comes into force, but there may well be nothing to prevent shop owners from going to the shop to package and dispatch online orders.

That would be "work which cannot be done from home" and would therefore be permitted anyway.

 

[bramling]

Yes, that sounds like a few windows upgrades I've had

Incidentally, it seems Colchester has been left out of tier 4, unlike most of the rest of Essex. The spread of the upgraded Covid is certainly very specific.

What a farce.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2020 ==

There is a good point about this; that there has been such bad handling and over-reaction from multiple governments over this coronavirus, with so many people completely fed up with it and now ignoring things compliance will be very low indeed when a far more dangerous pandemic with mortality north of 50% comes along - which it will one day - that would justify draconian measures. At that point, nobody will comply until it is far too late.

Very good point indeed, though hopefully we might have a better government / PM then...

 

[DB]

There is a good point about this; that there has been such bad handling and over-reaction from multiple governments over this coronavirus, with so many people completely fed up with it and now ignoring things compliance will be very low indeed when a far more dangerous pandemic with mortality north of 50% comes along - which it will one day - that would justify draconian measures. At that point, nobody will comply until it is far too late.

That's what happens when governments cry wolf, and continue to insist that it's a wolf when many can see that it's a large dog!

 

[Philip]

Flu and colds are around all year too - just far more prevalent in winter, as with Covid.

It's not actually much worse than a bad flu year. Hospitals aren't much busier than normal at this time of year, and a lot of the cancellations earlier in the year were a knee jerk over reaction. Excess deaths were below the five year average fir a lot of the summer.

In no way has there been a knee jerk reaction about the cancellation or delays to operations and cancer treatments.

The sooner people stop being so blase about this virus the better. I'm not advocating lockdowns, but people should be exercising caution at the very least.