New 4-tier system for England

[joncombe]

Meanwhile at St Pancras, half the world seems to have turned up to get out of London before midnight...

https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20

Interesting to see the messages below that, it's obviously going to be in the media tomorrow.

 

[43096]

This government has completely failed us in many ways, and I hope more people will get their heada out the sand and see this, but there seems to be a cult supporting it.

There is a distinctly "1984" feel about the way debate is shut down, people are being controlled and the propaganda is issued.

 

[DB]

Just look at the self-righteousness and paranoia in those St Pancras twitter comments, too!

The government's tactic of setting everyone at each other is certainly working well.

 

[bramling]

Just call them and say you have been burgled, then you can guarantee they won't be round anytime soon.

Lol!

 

[C J Snarzell]

You’ve known for years you say, but so have the Tory party. Funnily enough, they don’t like Burnham, so have gone after his police guy. Similarly rumours about the mayor of Liverpool have been around for ages and all of a sudden he’s being questioned. You have to question the timing..it’s almost like the government need something to deflect people’s attention. Have no idea why.

I've not made my mind up yet about the Joe Anderson saga, as he has been a good leader for Liverpool.

However, 30 miles down the M62, Andy Burnham is anything but good. If he doesn't step down now, he is goosed anyway at the May elections.

CJ

 

[bramling]

Interesting to see the messages below that, it's obviously going to be in the media tomorrow.

Already on the news tonight.

 

[Merle Haggard]

.
I don't understand the logic of a Tier 4 and Tier 2 county/unitary authority being adjacent. One might expect the risk to reduce more gradually.
I won't give details because it might draw attention with a resulting change to my disadvantage, but to give a more extreme example, I know of a small forest which straddles a county/unitary authority border, and is therefore part in tier 2 and part in tier 4. Generally, the Tier 2 / tier 4 boundary I am thinking of is in a very rural area. There are roads that have the boundary running along them - how does that work...

 

[Trackman]

Why St P? What about the other terminals?

edit:
Euston has people about but not overly busy.
Last 3 Avanti services towards Manchester *were* fully booked.

 

[adc82140]

Work will be taking me across the tier 2 to Tier 4 boundary just after xmas. I'll let you know what obstacles I come across.

Spoiler: It'll be none. Just like my multiple work trips to Wales this year. Doubt I'll even see a police car, let alone be stopped by one.

 

[bramling]

Why St P? What about the other terminals?

I love the way the woman tweets “every person on that train including myself has made a silly decision to travel”.

Er, no, I bet there’s a few bemused people among that lot on their way home from *work* wondering what on earth is going on...

I just don’t get this thing about the new strain. If it’s so volatile as it being made out, and it’s been circulating since September, then it’s simply inconceivable it hasn’t spread elsewhere round the country, as despite the fairly empty Intercity trains people certainly have been moving around over the last 3 months.

 

[DelayRepay]

.
I don't understand the logic of a Tier 4 and Tier 2 county/unitary authority being adjacent. One might expect the risk to reduce more gradually.
I won't give details because it might draw attention with a resulting change to my disadvantage, but to give a more extreme example, I know of a small forest which straddles a county/unitary authority border, and is therefore part in tier 2 and part in tier 4. Generally, the Tier 2 / tier 4 boundary I am thinking of is in a very rural area. There are roads that have the boundary running along them - how does that work...

I think you are near me. I am in Tier 4. Two miles down the road in either direction would be in Tier 2. I guess the boundary has to be somewhere, and I guess the adjacent tier 2 area will be in 3, if not 4, before long.

 

[yorkie]

...there seems to be a cult supporting it.

Not just supporting it, but pushing for it. Yet whatever measures the Government imposes are not enough for these people.

They remain just as angry at the Government as we are; but for the opposite reasons: they want the measures to be more severe and longer-lasting.

I call them the hysterical brigade. They are also referred to as locktivists (a portmanteau of lockdown activist) and many other names, but the terms for them are not important.

They are dangerous to our society and they are a severe threat to mental health and the livelihoods of millions of people.

They are a small minority of the population but they are incredibly vocal, and of course the media love that message and are keen to give them a platform to air their extreme views. This gives the false impression that many people think the way they do. They are generally older (but not exclusively so); if they are not retired, they are more likely to have a secure job than one which is at risk; they are more likely to live in a larger home with a garden than a smaller dwelling. They don't put mental health and livelihoods high up in importance. They are more likely to be authoritarian than libertarian or centrist.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==

I love the way the woman tweets “every person on that train including myself has made a silly decision to travel”.

Sounds like an authoritarian who is keen to judge and restrict others, while they themselves can do what they want. Just like the incompetent Professor!

 

[DB]

They remain just as angry at the Government as we are; but for the opposite reasons: they want the measures to be more severe and longer-lasting.

I call them the hysterical brigade. They are also referred to as locktivists (a portmanteau of lockdown activist) and many other names, but the terms for them are not important.

But they are angry at us sceptics as well because we are 'Covidiots' and by not hiding behind behind the sofa like obedient proles until kingdom come we are spreading the deadly killer virus (new improved version now available, with extra spreading abilities), and are thereby murdering grannies up and down the land!

 

[TUC]

Not just supporting it, but pushing for it. Yet whatever measures the Government imposes are not enough for these people.

They remain just as angry at the Government as we are; but for the opposite reasons: they want the measures to be more severe and longer-lasting.

I call them the hysterical brigade. They are also referred to as locktivists (a portmanteau of lockdown activist) and many other names, but the terms for them are not important.

They are dangerous to our society and they are a severe threat to mental health and the livelihoods of millions of people.

They are a small minority of the population but they are incredibly vocal, and of course the media love that message and are keen to give them a platform to air their extreme views. This gives the false impression that many people think the way they do. They are generally older (but not exclusively so); if they are not retired, they are more likely to have a secure job than one which is at risk; they are more likely to live in a larger home with a garden than a smaller dwelling. They don't put mental health and livelihoods high up in importance. They are more likely to be authoritarian than libertarian or centrist.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==


Sounds like an authoritarian who is keen to judge and restrict others, while they themselves can do what they want. Just like the incompetent Professor!

Spot on.

 

[DB]

They are generally older (but not exclusively so);

Still seems to be a lot of women in their 30s - like there was earlier in the year. It's not clear why this demographic should be so pro-paranoia, but it does still seem to be the case.

 

[yorksrob]

I love the way the woman tweets “every person on that train including myself has made a silly decision to travel”.

Er, no, I bet there’s a few bemused people among that lot on their way home from *work* wondering what on earth is going on...

I just don’t get this thing about the new strain. If it’s so volatile as it being made out, and it’s been circulating since September, then it’s simply inconceivable it hasn’t spread elsewhere round the country, as despite the fairly empty Intercity trains people certainly have been moving around over the last 3 months.

The clueless idiot ought to consider the fact that without constantly changing arbitrary rules, people wouldn't all be travelling at the same time.

I hope someone on twitter makes that point.

 

[TUC]

Where does this leave all the money the government paid coach operators to run extra services for Christmas? Seems rather inappropriate now.

 

[bramling]

But they are angry at us sceptics as well because we are 'Covidiots' and by not hiding behind behind the sofa like obedient proles until kingdom come we are spreading the deadly killer virus (new improved version now available, with extra spreading abilities), and are thereby murdering grannies up and down the land!

Must say I did smile at the “new improved version now available” bit! I wonder if this will trigger some conspiracy theories about this virus being man-made as a deliberate act. One does wonder at times given the sheer chaos it’s causing, seemingly mainly in western countries.

 

[Darandio]

Must say I did smile at the “new improved version now available” bit! I wonder if this will trigger some conspiracy theories about this virus being man-made as a deliberate act. One does wonder at times given the sheer chaos it’s causing, seemingly mainly in western countries.

The man-made conspiracy theory was already well underway on social media following a comment from Farage earlier this evening when he said "Christmas cancelled. Thank you, China."

 

[DB]

The clueless idiot ought to consider the fact that without constantly changing arbitrary rules, people wouldn't all be travelling at the same time.

I hope someone on twitter makes that point.

Most of the Twitterers seem to be getting into a lather of self-righteous indignation about people who are prepared to ignore the arbitrary rules. Most of them are just blindly accepting that the government knows best. It's really quite a dangerous situation, and shows how easily people can be manipulated.

They also seem to think that those travelling up from London will be bringing this new strain. It doesn't appear to have occurred to them that if it's as effective at spreading as claimed, and has been around since September, it'll be everywhere by now!

 

[bramling]

The clueless idiot ought to consider the fact that without constantly changing arbitrary rules, people wouldn't all be travelling at the same time.

I hope someone on twitter makes that point.

We are certainly at the point where some of the measures -when applied in the real-world with all those people who evidently aren’t as smart as the Johnsons - seem to be making things worse. I’ve thought that for a while, ditto the November lockdown which seems to have mainly served to crowd out the shops during December (as well as screwing over the business owners, who are now about to be screwed over again, and goodness knows for how long this time).

 

[Ianno87]

The man-made conspiracy theory was already well underway on social media following a comment from Farage earlier this evening when he said "Christmas cancelled. Thank you, China."

Times like this I wish (even more than usual) Mr Farage would just shut up completely

 

[bramling]

Most of the Twitterers seem to be getting into a lather of self-righteous indignation about people who are prepared to ignore the arbitrary rules. Most of them are just blindly accepting that the government knows best. It's really quite a dangerous situation, and shows how easily people can be manipulated.

They also seem to think that those travelling up from London will be bringing this new strain. It doesn't appear to have occurred to them that if it's as effective at spreading as claimed, and has been around since September, it'll be everywhere by now!

I’d be more bothered about the train being packed, completely unnecessarily.

As you say, if it’s so spreadable as is being claimed then it must surely be right round the country already.

Something isn’t right about this.

 

[brad465]

The man-made conspiracy theory was already well underway on social media following a comment from Farage earlier this evening when he said "Christmas cancelled. Thank you, China."

Yes I saw that and I'm very annoyed he said that specifically. Had he ended it with "Thanks Johnson" or slated the government in another way it would have been a rare sensible tweet from him and been in line with previous criticism he's voiced, but what he actually said is wrong and counterproductive.

 

[yorksrob]

Most of the Twitterers seem to be getting into a lather of self-righteous indignation about people who are prepared to ignore the arbitrary rules. Most of them are just blindly accepting that the government knows best. It's really quite a dangerous situation, and shows how easily people can be manipulated.

They also seem to think that those travelling up from London will be bringing this new strain. It doesn't appear to have occurred to them that if it's as effective at spreading as claimed, and has been around since September, it'll be everywhere by now!

Yes, they're enjoying the blissful ignorance that a virus around in September will have made it up the M1 by now.

We are certainly at the point where some of the measures -when applied in the real-world with all those people who evidently aren’t as smart as the Johnsons - seem to be making things worse. I’ve thought that for a while, ditto the November lockdown which seems to have mainly served to crowd out the shops during December (as well as screwing over the business owners, who are now about to be screwed over again, and goodness knows for how long this time).

Undoubtedly. Sit in the corner of a socially distanced pub having a read, or crowd into the nearest mall. Whitty and his ilk are clueless about how society operates.

 

[alistairlees]

People don’t sit in corners socially distanced though, do they? That’s the problem. And because large numbers of people can’t behave in a socially responsible way, then to have any effect in containing a deadly transmissible disease, more draconian rules / guidance has to be put in place. Which everyone then moans about / ignores. Thus not improving the situation at all. The government is certainly not competent, nor does it have any management capabilities - but what choices were there right now, with the data as it is? Certainly no easy choices.

 

[DB]

People don’t sit in corners socially distanced though, do they? That’s the problem. And because large numbers of people can’t behave in a socially responsible way, then to have any effect in containing a deadly transmissible disease, more draconian rules / guidance has to be put in place. Which everyone then moans about / ignores. Thus not improving the situation at all. The government is certainly not competent, nor does it have any management capabilities - but what choices were there right now, with the data as it is? Certainly no easy choices.

Ah yes, it has to be someone's 'fault', doesn't it.

Not sure how we have got to this bizarre mindset so quickly that a seasonal virus doing what it does can be blamed on individuals - seasonal viruses have existed as long as humanity, and it's always previously been accepted that they just spread, and that's one of those things.

And there has been no demonstration yet that these measures have much effect, especially when contrasted with the measureable and obvious harm they cause.

 

[yorksrob]

People don’t sit in corners socially distanced though, do they? That’s the problem. And because large numbers of people can’t behave in a socially responsible way, then to have any effect in containing a deadly transmissible disease, more draconian rules / guidance has to be put in place. Which everyone then moans about / ignores. Thus not improving the situation at all. The government is certainly not competent, nor does it have any management capabilities - but what choices were there right now, with the data as it is? Certainly no easy choices.

Well, actually, I sat in a lot of pubs after the first lockdown, and they were full of groups keeping themselves to themselves enjoying the table service.

The idea that we were all crowding around the piano singing "The Old Bull'N'Bush" couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[alistairlees]

Ah yes, it has to be someone's 'fault', doesn't it.

Not sure how we have got to this bizarre mindset so quickly that a seasonal virus doing what it does can be blamed on individuals - seasonal viruses have existed as long as humanity, and it's always previously been accepted that they just spread, and that's one of those things.

And there has been no demonstration yet that these measures have much effect, especially when contrasted with the measureable and obvious harm they cause.

Try explaining that it’s “just one of those things” to the many suffering / dying people. Or the people who are trying to treat them / save their lives. They are unlikely to welcome your view.

 

[bramling]

People don’t sit in corners socially distanced though, do they? That’s the problem. And because large numbers of people can’t behave in a socially responsible way, then to have any effect in containing a deadly transmissible disease, more draconian rules / guidance has to be put in place. Which everyone then moans about / ignores. Thus not improving the situation at all. The government is certainly not competent, nor does it have any management capabilities - but what choices were there right now, with the data as it is? Certainly no easy choices.

Really there should have been some expectation management over time regarding Christmas. *Yet again* BJ has managed to find the sweet-spot of both pissing everyone off and having the most damaging economic effect.