New 4-tier system for England

[peters]

It will probably be the DFT who will have to decide to allow refunds, even into the shape of credit notes/RTVs.

No doubt they will only go down the lines of "you can change it for free" which for some is as much use as a chocolate teapot

Yes, you only have to see how airline passengers have reacted to airlines offering a free change of date or voucher. In some cases passengers have told airlines they don't want the voucher even if it's for 120% of the value of the flight ticket.

 

[DelayRepay]

Am I right in thinking that the Christmas Relaxation was part of a bill voted on by Parliament? If so, is it allowable for a Statutory Instrument to over-ride it only a few weeks later? I guess it makes no difference given the opposition support the changes. The Tier 4 rules come into effect from midnight so they had better hurry up with publishing them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have an Aunt who lives alone (widowed) in London who struggles a bit at Christmas and really relies on spending the day with either her friend or her cousin. As far as I’m concerned what they’ve done is inhumane.

I agree. The Prime Minister himself said so, only a few days ago.

 

[farleigh]

It is deeply unfair.

 

[joncombe]

So apart from London (which moved into Tier 3 earlier) the areas moved into Tier 3 will have a whole .... 24 hours ... before the rules have changed AGAIN. So the shortest time before restrictions have changed again I think.

 

[duncanp]

It is deeply unfair.

I sincerely hope there is mass civil disobedience regarding this latest imposition.

They must have known about this before Parliament was sent home for the Christmas recess, so why wasn't there an emergency debate then?

I think we all know the answer to that question.

 

[MattA7]

I know Muslims who see both Easter and Christmas as guaranteed time off work to spend with family, even though they aren't celebrating a religious festival.

That’s generally how I view Christmas time as I don’t celebrate it for religious reasons. But understandably this news probably comes as a disappointment to those who do observe Christmas. In Scotland Easter isn’t really a big thing it’s not uncommon for school to be open and the “Easter holidays” to be whenever is most convenient for the council

 

[NorthOxonian]

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have an Aunt who lives alone (widowed) in London who struggles a bit at Christmas and really relies on spending the day with either her friend or her cousin. As far as I’m concerned what they’ve done is inhumane. The best bit is that my Aunt works in a hospital where she risks contracting the virus on a daily basis, but when it comes to needing a little support through (limited) social interaction that’s too much to ask? This really has made me very angry. But of course, nothing matters but covid....

Not that it's much, but support bubbles do still apply even in Tier 4, they are counted as one household (indeed it was specifically mentioned that this was mainly about those at risk of loneliness). If she's in one then that could be an option.

I really feel for her though, I hope she manages to get through it.

 

[island]

This is extremely wearisome.

 

[peters]

So apart from London (which moved into Tier 3 earlier) the areas moved into Tier 3 will have a whole .... 24 hours ... before the rules have changed AGAIN. So the shortest time before restrictions have changed again I think.

Even back in March when Boris announced closure of hospitality venues on a Friday evening, he then waited until Monday evening to announce full lockdown and perhaps that was understandable as closing hospitality venues had meant outdoor sites became overcrowded that weekend.

 

[DB]

I know Muslims who see both Easter and Christmas as guaranteed time off work to spend with family, even though they aren't celebrating a religious festival.

Only a minority are celebrating a religious festival these days. The church of england is in terminal decline with less than 2% of the population attending services at least once a month. There will be an above-average number on christmas day, but still a fairly small minority overall. This decline largely mirrored across other denominations although the numbers may be a bit different.

 

[peters]

Only a minority are celebrating a religious festival these days. The church of england is in terminal decline with less than 2% of the population attending services at least once a month. There will be an above-average number on christmas day, but still a fairly small minority overall. This decline largely mirrored across other denominations although the numbers may be a bit different.

There are a lot of people who see themselves as nominally Christian, so don't bother with churches except on a few occasions, Christmas being one of them. My local church has a 23 household limit with pre-booking essential due to COVID, on some Sundays the church doesn't manage to get all 3 services fully booked but for Christmas there's going to be 5 services and they all filled up within 24 hours of booking being made available!

 

[yorksrob]

It will probably be the DFT who will have to decide to allow refunds, even into the shape of credit notes/RTVs.

No doubt they will only go down the lines of "you can change it for free" which for some is as much use as a chocolate teapot

I will happilly take an RTV.

 

[DelayRepay]

Not that it's much, but support bubbles do still apply even in Tier 4, they are counted as one household (indeed it was specifically mentioned that this was mainly about those at risk of loneliness). If she's in one then that could be an option.

I really feel for her though, I hope she manages to get through it.

It's not much for people like me. My mum and family live in Yorkshire, I live in the South East. My mum lives alone but naturally formed a bubble with my sister, who lives a few streets away.

I have formed a bubble with a friend who lives locally, not a particularly close friend, just someone convenient. I don't particularly fancy spending my Christmas day with him, his wife and their young baby.

Does anyone know what the fine for breaking this law will be?

 

[Envy123]

As you can travel for work purposes surely you can make as many trips as necessary.

I live in a Tier 2 area. I had thought that after Sunday, I wouldn't be allowed to go to my shop in a Tier 4 area, even for work?

 

[brad465]

I sincerely hope there is mass civil disobedience regarding this latest imposition.

They must have known about this before Parliament was sent home for the Christmas recess, so why wasn't there an emergency debate then?

I think we all know the answer to that question.

Tomorrow is a Sunday and in large parts of the Tier 4 areas forecast to be sunny and mild for the time of year. If protesting/civil disobedience does happen, a favourable setup exists tomorrow.

 

[bramling]

Not to mention all the Tory MPs and their safe seat voters bearing the brunt too.

I think that boat has sailed, or at least is well and truly starting to.

A lot of Conservative voters are now uttering words like “never again”. The trouble is of course that Labour aren’t offering much if any alternative, though apart from the lack of floppy hair styles I think Starmer would at least avoid some of the flip-flopping we’ve been seeing.

At the moment goodness knows what I’d vote. To be honest I’m loathed to vote for something like Farage as a protest, but I think that would have to be it at the moment. I feel utterly politically homeless.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I live in a Tier 2 area. I had thought that after Sunday, I wouldn't be allowed to go to my shop in a Tier 4 area, even for work?

Oh yeah cause previous nobody bordered an area more than 1 tier higher or lower. Now it can be two tiers of difference in places.

 

[bramling]

Tomorrow is a Sunday and in large parts of the Tier 4 areas forecast to be sunny and mild for the time of year. If protesting/civil disobedience does happen, a favourable setup exists tomorrow.

I’m seriously thinking of something, even if it’s as mundane as sticking some posters up in strategic places.

 

[brad465]

I’m seriously thinking of something, even if it’s as mundane as sticking some posters up in strategic places.

Wetherspoons have already done some of that in their pub windows so adding some more won't look out of place.

 

[A Challenge]

Does anyone know what the fine for breaking this law will be?

If this post is correct (and I believe it is) nothing - rediculously

Am I right in thinking that the Christmas Relaxation was part of a bill voted on by Parliament? If so, is it allowable for a Statutory Instrument to over-ride it only a few weeks later?

 

[Scotrail12]

Sturgeon got booted off the BBC for Strictly!!

Deservedly given these restrictions.

 

[bramling]

Wetherspoons have already done some of that in their pub windows so adding some more won't look out of place.

The trouble with that is it’s easy for his efforts to be batted away with “well he would say that, he owns a pub chain”. It needs someone without such a vested interest.

There was a delight on the news just now, saying that this new strain spreads even with social distancing. Are they saying it’s in the air or water or something?! And if so then what’s the point of wearing a mask?

And if they’re so worried about this new strain spreading, perhaps Boris might have been at Euston or King’s Cross these last two days. Has he been, he’s have seen quite a few people boarding Intercity trains to other parts of Britain. I smell a rat with this, they’ve been spooked by SAGE, and floating the new strain is the way to get round the problem of Christmas.

 

[island]

I live in a Tier 2 area. I had thought that after Sunday, I wouldn't be allowed to go to my shop in a Tier 4 area, even for work?

The regulations have not (to my knowledge) been published yet, but based on the press conference, it appears that travel for work is still permitted regardless of tiers, as long as the worker cannot reasonably work from home.

 

[Watershed]

I live in a Tier 2 area. I had thought that after Sunday, I wouldn't be allowed to go to my shop in a Tier 4 area, even for work?

Yes, you can.

 

[DelayRepay]

Although depending on the type of shop, it may not be worth going to work as it won't be allowed to open.

 

[Envy123]

Yes, you can.

Thank you.

At least I can go there on Monday and retrieve the rest of my goods.

 

[bussnapperwm]

There was a delight on the news just now, saying that this new strain spreads even with social distancing. Are they saying it’s in the air or water or something?! And if so then what’s the point of wearing a mask?

Why do I suddenly have the urge to play Phil Collins

 

[185143]

Hopefully this will be the point that will spark mass civil disobedience. A colleague of mine flew over to Northern Ireland with his partner yesterday (from a Tier 3) to spend Christmas with their families. I somehow doubt they'll fly back home now because He Who Must Be Obeyed says you can only mix on the 25th.

Certainly the vibe from passengers on trains around Norfolk this evening is not positive. I've heard a four letter word beginning with C being thrown around to describe our leader Boris. (The one ending in T, for the record). And this is an area staying in Tier 2.

 

[Scotrail12]

Anyone else feel like they've been hit so many times that they are now desensitised to it?

 

[DelayRepay]

Personally I have not taken part in a protest since I was a teenager and Tony Blair decided to go to war with Iraq. But if there is a protest arranged locally I will be there. I hope it is not hijacked by 5G/Anti-Vax idiots though.