New 4-tier system for England

[brad465]

So quite possible masks have made things worse?

Potentially; it will need to appear more widely in research to be sure. While I wouldn't put it past those in charge to suppress anything about masks not working, if a definitive finds that this new strain beats masks/PPE, it would be a very good "get out clause" for the Government to effectively say the whole strategy is now no longer viable, as a means of trying to escape blame/responsibility.

I agree and think we need big, big choices over the next few days to determine the future of our country.

I imagine big decisions will be made, but I seriously doubt they'll be the right ones.

 

[Chester1]

The Telegraph front page is leading with senior Whitehall sources saying that MHRA will authorise Oxford vaccine on 28th or 29th December. There is a lot of stuff about the roll out of the Pfizer vaccine. 140,000 got their first dose in first week, 500,000 should be done by Sunday night. They say the NHS is intending to jab 200,000 a day by end of next week. The Telegraph is a fairly reliable indicator of Government intentions. I do wonder if the "senior Whitehall sources" were asked to leak to Telegraph after Tory backbenchers pushed back against media campaign for a third lockdown.

 

[6862]

I think support for lockdowns and other such measures is a lot higher than we assume on this forum, unfortunately. Government has got intelligent and rational people into such a state of terror.

It's ruining my marriage and family life.

I am very sorry to hear what an impact it's having on you and your family. I hope things get better soon!

When I hear stories like this, it reinforces my opinion that what Boris and co are doing is worthy of international prosecution for human rights abuses. They are destroying people and families by breaking them down mentally. It's disgusting and it makes me furious.

 

[Bantamzen]

Wouldn't be atall surprised if yet another darn full national lockdown is announced soon. And wouldn't be atall surprised if it's announced on Christmas Day of all days, with an "Address to the nation" from Johnson. He could well say something like "Well we hope you've had a lovely Christmas Day. However, the number of Coronavirus cases are soaring, the R rate has gone above 1, hospitals are struggling, blah blah blah..... Therefore to protect the NHS and save lives we need to have another full national lockdown commencing on the 28th of December.". Wouldn't be atall surprised.

What annoys me is how the government keeps going on about protecting the NHS when announcing these lockdowns and saying about why all these other restrictions are needed. What about the severe economic damage all these lockdowns, Tiered restrictions, social distancing restrictions, are having on many thousands of businesses across the country? What about the millions of people whose livelihoods are suffering or ruined because of all this? What about the severe effect this is having on millions of people's mental health?(A number of whom have committed suicide because they just can't take all this any longer). They need to balance things up in how to deal with this, not just thinking about protecting the NHS!

A week or so ago in the news it was mentioned that "Coronavirus restrictions to be progressively eased in the new year.". Though it didn't give details of when exactly in the new year the restrictions would be progessively eased. That said Johnson and others(even Hancock who is usually very pro-restrictions) in the cabinet have said that life should be back to normal by Easter/after Easter. I was beginning to feel cautiously optimistic that it's not too far off now that life can get back to normal and we can move on from this disastrous 12 month period. But now things are going the other way, what with talk of the government considering introducing a new tougher Tier 4 restrictions, that a third national lockdown could well be necessary, etc. This is all just absolutely insane.

We've got these vaccines that are starting to be rolled out now, and once a fair number of the most vulnerable people have been vaccinated, we really need to start easing all these lockdowns and restrictions, NOT increasing them!

If this does drag on beyond April with still no definite end in sight, I really think I just won't be able to take all this any longer, and call it a day with my life. Millions of other people in England could well be feeling the same. This is absolutely mental torture all this dragging on all these months.

Ah but the government have found someone gullible enough to take the blame for when funding for the NHS goes through the floor, the great British public. So when millions more people are on the dole, when tax revenues sink, when austerity v2.0 kicks in the government can just say "Well it was you lot selfish enough to go around breathing wot caused it". And there are sadly still enough people brainwashed by covidphobia to swallow this whole.

And I do agree with you when you say if this goes on much longer, I will not be able to take much more. If it comes to it I will take to the streets and fight with every last breath to wrestle back the freedoms for our and future generations.

I reckon they'll be using this story as well in such an argument:

Pressure on hospitals 'at a really dangerous point'

Nearly 90% of hospital beds in England are full as hospitals try to cope with the demands of Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

Pretty sure though hospitals struggle every winter due to improper/insufficient resourcing.

Hospitals always run at close to capacity, this kind of reporting is scandalous. Whoever decided to publish it should be sacked with immediate effect.

 

[Domh245]

I reckon they'll be using this story as well in such an argument:

Pressure on hospitals 'at a really dangerous point'

Nearly 90% of hospital beds in England are full as hospitals try to cope with the demands of Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

Pretty sure though hospitals struggle every winter due to improper/insufficient resourcing.

Interestingly though, I'm not seeing much reporting about the fact that hospitals are generally emptier than they were this time last year

NHS data suggests English hospitals are STILL less full than last year

Statistics from NHS England show that 89 per cent of hospital beds had patients in them, on average, in the second week of December, which was down from 94.9 per cent this time last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

• Average intensive care ward occupancy down to 75 per cent from 84 per cent from the same time last year
• 15,465 people in hospital with Covid in England on Wednesday compared to 18,974 on worst day in spring
• But statistics suggest the health service is, overall, coping better with its workload than it did last winter

NHS data still shows hospitals to be quieter than they were this time last year amid the looming threat of a third national lockdown in the New Year as the second wave of coronavirus continues to bite and the number of Covid patients approaches levels seen in England's peak in April.

Despite the health service having more breathing room than 12 months ago, Boris Johnson today refused to rule out another national shutdown as he warned the country was struggling to get a grip on the winter wave of infections.
Figures show there were 15,465 people in hospital with Covid in England on December 16, compared to 18,974 on the worst day in the spring. November's lockdown effects appear to have worn off, with admissions rising again, and another wave of deaths is likely to follow in the New Year.

In more confirmation that No10 is struggling to keep a lid on the epidemic, SAGE today claimed Britain's Covid-19 reproduction 'R' rate is now definitely above one again. The R is the average number of people each Covid patient infects and when it's above one it means cases are growing exponentially.

But statistics suggest the health service is, overall, coping better with its workload than it did last winter. A greater proportion of ward beds are free, intensive care units have more room and A&E departments aren't yet turning ambulances away more often than usual - with the exception of a bad day at one NHS trust in the Midlands.

And the occupancy figure does not take into account bolstered capacity at the mothballed Nightingale hospitals, which went unused after being built during the first wave in case wards were overrun with Covid, or the thousands of additional beds commandeered from the private sector for the same purpose.

The NHS is also benefitting from 'record levels of staff', according to the Department of Health, which is headed by Matt Hancock, boasted in August. The number of nurses in England has increased by 13,840 compared with last year, and the number of doctors has risen by 9,306, it said.

A further 47,000 former health workers, including retired doctors and nurses, are also on standby in case hospitals are pushed to the brink after volunteering their services during the first Covid wave. The explanation the Government has given to justify lockdowns has been to 'protect the NHS' and prevent non-virus care from being disrupted.

Seven times more hospitals were 95 per cent full or more in the second week of December 2019 than this year - 80 compared to 11 - and England's average intensive care occupancy is down from 84 per cent to 75 per cent. Some hospitals have this week announced they are postponing some non-urgent procedures like they did in the spring because of surges in Covid patients, while others say they are 'coping' and hope they won't have to do so.
In Kent, which is bearing the brunt of the winter wave of the virus, doctors at half of the county's NHS trusts are treating double the number of Covid-19 patients they faced in the first wave of the pandemic. Doctors' unions say they are afraid that a third wave of infections, like the one emerging in London and the South East, could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

It comes as the PM warned that England faces the 'reality' of surging coronavirus cases today amid fears of an even tougher post-Christmas lockdown - despite 38million people already being plunged into Tier 3. The PM refused to rule out another blanket squeeze to control a surge in cases - similar to those already announced for Wales and Northern Ireland - even though it would inflict further devastation on the economy.
Any escalation could potentially mean the order to stay at home being reinstated, and non-essential shops forced to shut. Asked about the prospect of a new lockdown on a visit to Bolton, Mr Johnson said: 'We're hoping very much that we will be able to avoid anything like that. But the reality is that the rates of infection have increased very much in the last few weeks.'

NHS data shows that wards are less full than they were at the same time last year, but doctors say there are invisible coronavirus pressures that don't show through in this data

It's ruining my marriage and family life.

I'm sorry to hear about the impact this is having. I really do hope that this all comes to an end soon and things improve again for you with it

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone still listen to what Ferguson has to say after his 500k deaths prediction?

The anti-Sweden hysterical pro-restriction brigade who want us all to live like hermits until the vaccine has been rolled out to the entire population do absolutely listen to his doom-mongering, despite his own poor behaviour.

That said, if he is not calling for a full lockdown, then even his hardcore support of hystericals may think he is not radical enough for them!

 

[DustyBin]

Incidentally I saw a report on the BBC yesterday saying that Thanksgiving in the US made not one jot of difference to the infection rates. They were climbing slowly before, and continued to climb slowly after. I'll be glad when this Christmas hysteria is over and they move on to the next thing.

That’s interesting. There was a women on Sky News yesterday claiming exactly the opposite and as such we should cancel Christmas.... More lies!

I reckon that another lockdown is pretty much certain. Boris is only saying he wants to avoid it so that he can blame us peasants when he imposes one. We're back in the late October situation again. I reckon this is the new normal - a cycle of lockdown/'freedom'/lockdown interspersed with governmental chaos and them blaming us for trying to maintain some aspects of what it means to be a human.

I think we’re being lined up for another lockdown, they may try and get away with calling it something else though for the reasons others have stated. I suspect it won’t be the last either. Considering the utter devastation being wreaked upon our society and economy, I’m really struggling to understand why they’re so determined to keep us in this state. There appears to be absolutely no commitment to any kind of exit strategy.

Yes.

People in England (and the rest of the UK no doubt) will be blamed for the increase in cases after Christmas, due to them mixing in so called "festive bubbles".

In other words, we will all be blamed for the consequences of doing something that the government allowed us to do. (ie. mixing with other households over the five days from December 23rd)

The government (and by this I mean the devolved governments as well as the UK government) just didn't have the balls to prohibit people from meeting up over Christmas. It would have been better if they had been honest with people, and because they haven't been honest with people we are all going to suffer the consequences.

And the BBC are reporting that Boris Johnson is "hoping to avoid" another national lockdown.

Which of course means that it is a virtual certainty, just like when a government minister resigns after they have been given the Prime Minister's "full confidence and support".

Agreed. As much as I’m opposed to restrictions, I can’t understand why the government think it’s a good idea to ease them over Christmas. It’s a pathetic attempt to gain a bit of popularity. You just wouldn’t do this in the middle of a “deadly pandemic” it doesn’t make sense. It feels a bit like a trap that they know we’ll fall into....

If it’s as serious as they are claiming to make out, should they not be acting now?

I think that sums up the last ten months quite nicely!

I agree and think we need big, big choices over the next few days to determine the future of our country.

I’m sure we can rely on the government to make completely the wrong choices!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I have just had a look at the cases and deaths for Kent from the UK Covid dashboard, where this strain seemed to first appear. In Kent the number of cases started rising exactly a month ago, however the deaths for the past three weeks have not gone up, in fact they appear to dipped slightly in the last week.

This to me would indicate that this new strain is less dangerous.

Yeah I noticed that with some of my family living in Kent look at there daily data and ours and our death rate was 4 times as much per case then the Kent level. Problem is though people are being hospitalised and a high rate and theres no information on what discharge rate is so looks like they can treat people but not necessarily fast enough to allow them to be discharged.

 

[yorksrob]

I have just had a look at the cases and deaths for Kent from the UK Covid dashboard, where this strain seemed to first appear. In Kent the number of cases started rising exactly a month ago, however the deaths for the past three weeks have not gone up, in fact they appear to dipped slightly in the last week.

This to me would indicate that this new strain is less dangerous.

I hope that they are investigating this aspect of the new strain. If this is the case, we could be doing harm by preventing it from dominating.

 

[Bantamzen]

Oh boy, here we go again.....

Boris Johnson calls crisis meeting over new Covid strain | World news | The Guardian

Boris Johnson summoned ministers for an emergency meeting on Friday to discuss how to tackle mounting concerns about the new strain of coronavirus identified in parts of south-east England.

The variant is thought to be more infectious and could trigger possible restrictions including curbs on travel between the south-east, including London, and the rest of the country, according to reports, but ministers insisted that no decisions have been made.

The health secretary, Matt Hancock, expressed concerns earlier this week about the new strain as he announced that a large swathe of the south-east would be placed under the toughest, tier 3 restrictions.

It is understood that government scientists have subsequently presented new evidence to ministers about the behaviour of this variant. A government official said: “There are concerns that it is more transmissible than the existing strain – and that sense is hardening.”


An announcement could be made as soon as Saturday about how ministers plan to try to contain the new threat, with particular concerns about the risks of cross-UK travel in the run-up to Christmas.

Professor Sir Mark Walport – a member of the government’s scientific advisory group for emergencies (Sage) – said there was a real possibility that the strain could have a “transmission advantage”.

“What happens with viruses is they do naturally mutate all the time and the ones that are likely to do well are the ones that increase transmission,” he told BBC2’s Newsnight. “We know that this is a new variant, it has been seen in other countries but it seems to be quite widespread which suggests that it has got a transmission advantage. Scientists are working extremely hard to work out what is going on. But it does definitely seem possible that this transmits more easily. It will make the social-distancing even more critical.”

Hancock told the Commons on Monday that cases of the variant were found in almost 60 areas. He said: “Over the last few days, thanks to our world-class genomic capability in the UK, we have identified a new variant of coronavirus which may be associated with the fastest spread in the south-east of England.

“Initial analysis suggests that this variant is growing faster than the existing variance. We’ve currently identified over 1,000 cases with this variant, predominantly in the south of England, although cases have been identified in nearly 60 different local authority areas and numbers are increasing rapidly.

“Similar variants have been identified in other countries over the last few months. We’ve notified the World Health Organization and Public Health England is working hard to continue its expert analysis at Porton Down.”

Hancock added: “I must stress at this point that there is currently nothing to suggest that this variant is more likely to cause serious disease and the latest clinical advice is that it’s highly unlikely that this mutation would fail to respond to a vaccine.

“But it shows we’ve got to be vigilant and follow the rules and everyone needs to take personal responsibility not to spread this virus.”

Prof Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, had denied that tier 3 was introduced in London and surrounding areas because of the variant during Monday’s Downing Street press conference.

He added there was no evidence that the symptoms are different or worse or that different Covid-19 testing is required.

Lockdown v3.0 is now inevitable. So if you work or rely on someone working in hospitality, entertainment, sporting events, any of the myriad of companies in their supply chains or even any "non-essential" stores then you might want to watch your spending over the "festive" period, because things are going to get tough.

 

[johntea]

I went out after work to a restaurant in a Tier 2 area (shoot me as I live in a Tier 3 area!) with some colleagues from work for a ‘business meeting’

We ordered some food of course but after we had finished that the waiter was more than happy to keep coming round for another order of just drinks until we were on about the 6th round and were feeling a bit tipsy!

We then chanced another pub as one of our party knew a bouncer there so got us a table but they didn’t buy our drunken ‘we’ve already eaten’ excuse so we had to order a starter! (They started at around £6!)

Quite depressing thinking about how it felt like a ‘privilege’ to be out really

 

[bramling]

Lockdown v3.0 is now inevitable. So if you work or rely on someone working in hospitality, entertainment, sporting events, any of the myriad of companies in their supply chains or even any "non-essential" stores then you might want to watch your spending over the "festive" period, because things are going to get tough.

I think next year is going to be pretty rubbish for most people, even the work-from-homers who think it’s wonderful they don’t have to get up and commute and can go to the gym at 1700 every day.

I wouldn’t be surprised 6 months from now instead of it being Hancock and BJ being slated on here, it will be Sunak. So far it’s the easy bit he’s done.

I dread to think what measures might happen in the tax department.

 

[DB]

I think next year is going to be pretty rubbish for most people, even the work-from-homers who think it’s wonderful they don’t have to get up and commute and can go to the gym at 1700 every day.

I wouldn’t be surprised 6 months from now instead of it being Hancock and BJ being slated on here, it will be Sunak. So far it’s the easy bit he’s done.

I dread to think what measures might happen in the tax department.

Even some of us who can work from home a lot are really sick of it! I've been spending more time in the offices recently, as have a number of colleagues.

Can't see Sunak's relative popularity (relative to other prominent members of government, that is!) lasting. Raising taxes at a time of high unemployment would not make him popular with anyone...

 

[brad465]

I hope that they are investigating this aspect of the new strain. If this is the case, we could be doing harm by preventing it from dominating.

Not just that potential aspect, a few posts further up we were talking about speculation of this new strain being better able to get through masks and PPE. While the investigation is ongoing there is logic in viral strains that beat them winning out if the majority of the population is wearing them.

This is what Dr Ewan Birney had to say:

Covid: Ministers meet amid rising infection rates in England

The PM is "hoping to avoid" another national lockdown as millions more enter England's toughest tier.

www.bbc.co.uk

Dr Birney said it was too soon to know whether the variant caused worse disease but scientists should start to get a good idea "in a matter of weeks", adding that other viruses had tended to mutate to become faster transmitters but less harmful.

 

[DB]

Not just that potential aspect, a few posts further up we were talking about speculation of this new strain being better able to get through masks and PPE. While the investigation is ongoing there is logic in viral strains that beat them winning out if the majority of the population is wearing them.

This is what Dr Ewan Birney had to say:

Covid: Ministers meet amid rising infection rates in England

The PM is "hoping to avoid" another national lockdown as millions more enter England's toughest tier.

www.bbc.co.uk

Given that there is no evidence that masks have made any difference so far, it's difficult to see how any difference in strains in terms of whether masks work could be measured!

 

[Envy123]

I’m really worried about the prospect of travel bans to the southeast. This means no revenue at all for my business

 

[Chester1]

Oh boy, here we go again.....

Boris Johnson calls crisis meeting over new Covid strain | World news | The Guardian



Lockdown v3.0 is now inevitable. So if you work or rely on someone working in hospitality, entertainment, sporting events, any of the myriad of companies in their supply chains or even any "non-essential" stores then you might want to watch your spending over the "festive" period, because things are going to get tough.

I agree that is inevitable now that the media is heavily pushing for it. My hope is that the government will introduce local tier 4s to stall. Introducing a national lockdown on 28th December, 26 days after a 30 day lockdown ended would be seen as a guarantee that a fourth lockdown will happen.

 

[PHILIPE]

There can be no late changes to Christmas plans now as it would mean Boris having to admit the plans were wrong. Admitting mistakes is not in Boris's genes. I have seen a Twitter post somewhere that his rebellious father was seen on the Tube without a face covering.

 

[bramling]

There can be no late changes to Christmas plans now as it would mean Boris having to admit the plans were wrong. Admitting mistakes is not in Boris's genes. I have seen a Twitter post somewhere that his rebellious father was seen on the Tube without a face covering.

Doing some Google searches on Stanley Johnson is a quite revealing experience. The guy is a complete and utter doltz. Indeed he’s one of those people who come across like they’re perennially on something.

I agree BJ won’t want to admit a mistake, but he’ll find a way of casting blame elsewhere. After spinning their way out of Barnard Castle anything is possible, the Etonian arrogance knows no bounds.

 

[Richard Scott]

I agree that is inevitable now that the media is heavily pushing for it. My hope is that the government will introduce local tier 4s to stall. Introducing a national lockdown on 28th December, 26 days after a 30 day lockdown ended would be seen as a guarantee that a fourth lockdown will happen.

Fed up with media and the government for constantly bowing to it. They just pick out what they want, so there's a new strain that transmits more easily but likely it's less harmful, conveniently overlooked by both government and media. We need someone in government who knows something about science, this is ridiculous. Lunatics are definitely running the asylum now. Notice someone else said wish we had Thatcher now, for all her failings I'm sure she'd have been best person for the job currently and doubt she'd be allowing people's businesses to go to the wall.

 

[bramling]

Fed up with media and the government for constantly bowing to it. They just pick out what they want, so there's a new strain that transmits more easily but likely it's less harmful, conveniently overlooked by both government and media. We need someone in government who knows something about science, this is ridiculous. Lunatics are definitely running the asylum now. Notice someone else said wish we had Thatcher now, for all her failings I'm sure she'd have been best person for the job currently and doubt she'd be allowing people's businesses to go to the wall.

What takes the biscuit with the media is stuff like the Kay Burley affair. Likewise the various politicians who have been caught doing things they shouldn’t. If they wish to preach unto others then they should damn-well follow things themselves.

 

[Mojo]

What takes the biscuit with the media is stuff like the Kay Burley affair. Likewise the various politicians who have been caught doing things they shouldn’t. If they wish to preach unto others then they should damn-well follow things themselves.

Absolutely. I’ve got no problems with people ignoring the guidance and restrictions. What is really infuriating is those who say the restrictions should be more severe and then ignoring them.

 

[bramling]

Absolutely. I’ve got no problems with people ignoring the guidance and restrictions. What is really infuriating is those who say the restrictions should be more severe and then ignoring them.

Even the most hard-core are doing it. Like the other day someone moaning about me not having a mask on - well why did you come and sit near me when the rest of the train was nearly empty?

 

[Bantamzen]

I think next year is going to be pretty rubbish for most people, even the work-from-homers who think it’s wonderful they don’t have to get up and commute and can go to the gym at 1700 every day.

I wouldn’t be surprised 6 months from now instead of it being Hancock and BJ being slated on here, it will be Sunak. So far it’s the easy bit he’s done.

I dread to think what measures might happen in the tax department.

Oh its going to be pants next year for sure, the fallout from Covidphobia hasn't even begun to start. We have a additional £500 billion on the budget deficit taking the total to over £2 trillion, we have an NHS waiting list as bad as we've had in decades, we have a mental health timebomb literally ticking away, we have kids that are months behind in their education, and a sizeable proportion of the population that will likely rarely step out of their houses for fear of the "killer" virus. Its going to be a cluster-you-know-what for sure.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==

I agree that is inevitable now that the media is heavily pushing for it. My hope is that the government will introduce local tier 4s to stall. Introducing a national lockdown on 28th December, 26 days after a 30 day lockdown ended would be seen as a guarantee that a fourth lockdown will happen.

A fourth tier will do nothing to help, but will cause even more economic trauma. My hope is that at some point fairly soon after the clock strikes 12am at the end of this year, a huge penny drops and politicians realise that we cannot "defeat the virus" but have to learn to get society working again whilst helping those that need protection.

 

[DustyBin]

Oh boy, here we go again.....

Boris Johnson calls crisis meeting over new Covid strain | World news | The Guardian



Lockdown v3.0 is now inevitable. So if you work or rely on someone working in hospitality, entertainment, sporting events, any of the myriad of companies in their supply chains or even any "non-essential" stores then you might want to watch your spending over the "festive" period, because things are going to get tough.

As I keep saying the industry is being well and truly shafted. The feeling now is that the government are quite willing to see it collapse, we’re expendable. It’s only a matter of time before a large/high profile hospitality business goes pop, most are effectively on life support which will, at some point, be turned off.

 

[PHILIPE]

What takes the biscuit with the media is stuff like the Kay Burley affair. Likewise the various politicians who have been caught doing things they shouldn’t. If they wish to preach unto others then they should damn-well follow things themselves.

Kay Burley apologised afterwards and said what they all say: "I made an error of judgement"

 

[yorksrob]

Fed up with media and the government for constantly bowing to it. They just pick out what they want, so there's a new strain that transmits more easily but likely it's less harmful, conveniently overlooked by both government and media. We need someone in government who knows something about science, this is ridiculous. Lunatics are definitely running the asylum now. Notice someone else said wish we had Thatcher now, for all her failings I'm sure she'd have been best person for the job currently and doubt she'd be allowing people's businesses to go to the wall.

Mrs T was a scientist by profession, I believe.

 

[HSTEd]

Boris to hold a press conference, complete with Vallance and Whitty.

Immediate total lockdown in 4... 3....2

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Oh boy, here we go again.....

Boris Johnson calls crisis meeting over new Covid strain | World news | The Guardian


Lockdown v3.0 is now inevitable. So if you work or rely on someone working in hospitality, entertainment, sporting events, any of the myriad of companies in their supply chains or even any "non-essential" stores then you might want to watch your spending over the "festive" period, because things are going to get tough.

Things aren't going to "get tough" - they have been for months now in theatre and events. We're seeing some major company failures and significant redundancies (in some cases over 50% of the workforce) already.
A lot of workers are freelance or casual and many are amongst the "excluded" who have received nothing from either furlough or SEISS. Even funded places like the National Theatre let all their casual staff go in August.

While venues have received some support the supply chain has been badly neglected and is in serious danger of collapse which will then make recovery for the industy even harder.
Credit must be given to ScotGov as they have given grants to suppliers at a level that, I know from talking to colleagues in the industry, has definitely saved many jobs and indeed some companies from collapse

The biggest issue just now is short-notice Tier changes - the English Lockdown MkII and now London going from 2-3 has kicked London's theatres in the balls twice now in close succession. National Theatre actually opened and closed (permanently) a show on the same night
We filmed our local panto as there was no chance of getting it on stage but now even the cinema showings have been cancelled as East Lothian has moved from Level 2 to 3 on just 3 days notice - all the casual FOH staff will now have no work for the rest of the year and revenue is now lost as it won't be recovered from streaming

Outside of your own house a theatre or cinema is about as safe as you can get with all the measures in place and yet we are, once again, closed by law

You could substitute "hospitality" in the above as that sector has exactly the same problems (and the two industries are very much entwined and co-dependent)

 

[kristiang85]

To be honest, I'm vehemently anti lockdown and anti restrictions in general, but right now I'd be happy for them to announce they are putting the whole country into tier 3 until the end of March and not change it. I'm saying this as someone in tier 2!

The constant chopping and changing and not being able to make any knid of long term plan is just wearing me down now. At least if we had some certainly we could plan for it.

And I'm sure pubs and other businesses that keep restocking and rehiring only to then have the door shut on them again with little notice will be happy too. The economic damage would be catastrophic, but probably not much worse than now.