Avanti calls at Stockport and Stoke

[tbtc]

I wonder what the next suggestion will be for Manchester to London...

Based on the threads here it's so busy that it needs a fourth service per hour and so quiet that it only needs one or two services per hour and so busy that we need to reopen the Bakewell line to cope with demand but so quiet because everyone is priced off the trains but so busy that we need to run some LNR services beyond Stoke/Crewe to Manchester to soak up the people unable to cram onto the existing services but so quiet that there's no point in building HS2 to link the cities. Did I forget anything?

I could have seen merit in only having one train per hour stopping at Stoke when VHF was being put together (since it was only one train per hour in BR days) but if you were to dump the Stoke call now then you'd be dumping a lot of Potteries passengers onto the already rather busy XC services which isn't a great idea. And you wouldn't be saving any time for Manchester - London passengers - you'd just catch up with the next stopper - I could see the argument that "it might be worth cutting the Stoke call if it means that there's scope to introduce a Trent Valley stop instead" - that wouldn't have affected the times at Piccadilly/Euston but maybe there's merit in swapping a Stoke call for one somewhere else - I'm not convinced, I'm just using an example of some kind of trade off that some people might get behind - but you're not going to get under two hours from end to end given how busy the route through Stockport is.

Also, the idea of removing some of Stoke's long distance services in the current climate (when it's one of the poster boys for the idea that Brexit was the result of the "left behind" white working class) is not going to happen - cutting half of the London services (and around a third of the seats towards Manchester) would be politically unpalatable.

 

[Ianno87]

I wonder what the next suggestion will be for Manchester to London...

Based on the threads here it's so busy that it needs a fourth service per hour and so quiet that it only needs one or two services per hour and so busy that we need to reopen the Bakewell line to cope with demand but so quiet because everyone is priced off the trains but so busy that we need to run some LNR services beyond Stoke/Crewe to Manchester to soak up the people unable to cram onto the existing services but so quiet that there's no point in building HS2 to link the cities. Did I forget anything?

This is the point where I'd insert a GIF of Leonardo di Caprio. Either the one with him applauding, or the one with him raising the Martini glass with fireworks in the background.

 

[Bald Rick]

Also, the idea of removing some of Stoke's long distance services in the current climate (when it's one of the poster boys for the idea that Brexit was the result of the "left behind" white working class) is not going to happen - cutting half of the London services (and around a third of the seats towards Manchester) would be politically unpalatable.

Well, yes, except that it has happened and will be like that for the next 5 months.

However, this is cancellation of the whole service, not just the Stoke call. One can just imagine the uproar if the services trundled through Stoke without stopping.

 

[6Gman]

Well, yes, except that it has happened and will be like that for the next 5 months.

However, this is cancellation of the whole service, not just the Stoke call. One can just imagine the uproar if the services trundled through Stoke without stopping.

Both Stoke City Council and Staffordshire County Council are less than happy that post-HS2 Stoke may well go down to an hourly London service. Bringing that forward a decade would be the proverbial goblet of cold vomit. Especially if the second service then trundled through at walking pace (and bear in mind there are no longer middle roads at Stoke so trains would still progress through the platforms).

What is the linespeed through the platforms?

 

[The Planner]

Both Stoke City Council and Staffordshire County Council are less than happy that post-HS2 Stoke may well go down to an hourly London service. Bringing that forward a decade would be the proverbial goblet of cold vomit. Especially if the second service then trundled through at walking pace (and bear in mind there are no longer middle roads at Stoke so trains would still progress through the platforms).

What is the linespeed through the platforms?

45mph up, 40mph down.

 

[Philip]

I posted up-thread about potentially replacing a Stoke call with Nuneaton. Why not? It is north of Rugby so clear of the very tight timing section, there will be a reasonable market for an hourly service between Nuneaton and Manchester.

 

[The Planner]

I posted up-thread about potentially replacing a Stoke call with Nuneaton. Why not? It is north of Rugby so clear of the very tight timing section, there will be a reasonable market for an hourly service between Nuneaton and Manchester.

It is not a straight swap, the call at Stoke consumes less time than a Nuneaton stop due to the line speeds.

 

[Bald Rick]

I posted up-thread about potentially replacing a Stoke call with Nuneaton. Why not? It is north of Rugby so clear of the very tight timing section, there will be a reasonable market for an hourly service between Nuneaton and Manchester.

Also, there is nowhere near as big a market for Nuneaton - Manchester or Nuneaton - London as there is for Stoke - Manchester or Stoke - London.

Effectively you are suggesting doubling Nuneatons fast services to London, at the expense of Stoke, and removing a significant proportion of capacity for Stoke - Manchester passengers. Why would you do that?!

 

[Greybeard33]

45mph up, 40mph down.

Faster than Stockport - 35mph up, 3025mph down.

 

[sprinterguy]

Same for the Macclesfield service. I'd wonder if there are more users Macc>Manc than Macc>Euston. It's quick and has a lot of capacity. Worst case scenario, easy enough to stand, but as mentioned upthread, folks get off too. And way more at Stockport.

Anecdotal evidence of boarding these services in both directions at similar times of day suggests that there is indeed significantly more use of Avanti services north from Macclesfield to Manchester than south to Stoke and Euston. The 08:02 departure to Manchester (1H06 06:16 London Euston - Manchester Piccadilly) in particular provides a very popular commuter service.

 

[Senex]

Faster than Stockport - 35mph up, 30mph down.

Isn't the down fast still 25 for everything over the four or five chains on the curve and through the points at the north end of platform 3?

 

[cle]

Anecdotal evidence of boarding these services in both directions at similar times of day suggests that there is indeed significantly more use of Avanti services north from Macclesfield to Manchester than south to Stoke and Euston. The 08:02 departure to Manchester (1H06 06:16 London Euston - Manchester Piccadilly) in particular provides a very popular commuter service.

Thanks, I thought so. These services cover off a lot of different purposes, but especially a lot of Crewe/Wilmslow/Stoke/Macc/Stockport to Manchester capacity. Where the alternates are much shorter DMUs or EMU stoppers.

The Trent Valley has nowhere near the demand, has other services (including a lot of fasts during the peaks) and is on a fast stretch of track, slowing down anything stopping there a lot more. Nuneaton never needed a link to Liverpool historically, I think Project 110 covers the need perfectly, with the peak extras.

 

[Greybeard33]

Isn't the down fast still 25 for everything over the four or five chains on the curve and through the points at the north end of platform 3?

Correct. 5ch of 25, preceded by 59ch of 40 into Stockport P3 on the down fast. OP corrected.

 

[SoccerHQ]

I actually think there should be more calls at Macclesfield although I think that's the case anyway now with both XCs services stopping there compared to just the 57 xxxx (from Birmingham new street) that used to stop.

Obviously not done it in a while but once a month would catch the rush hour Pendolino around 5 down to Stoke and it was always standing room only until Macc and then a good third of train would clear out so you could get a seat to Stoke no problem.