RMT Ballot Scotrail Members For Strike Action

[theironroad]

As the ballot hasn't met the requirements there is no mandate from the members for the union to act upon.

A positive mandate from members didn't meant that strike action would automatically follow, it it does however signal to the employer that the membership are united and prepared to defend their pay, terms and conditions and jobs.

While I don't believe strike action would have helped anyone right now, rmt members have given Scotrail a free hand to do absolutely nothing about pay and potentially a wider hand to try and push through multi year real terms pay cuts and possibly cuts to t&c at the least .

Not a good day for Scotrail workers.

 

[northernbelle]

Good news - perhaps now the RMT will have a think about how unrelatable to real life it is becoming to many of its members and adjust its tact accordingly.

 

[theironroad]

Good news - perhaps now the RMT will have a think about how unrelatable to real life it is becoming to many of its members and adjust its tact accordingly.

It maybe good news for the union haters on this site and certainly to those who wish to see the railways run on a zero hours contract, minimum staffing and as cheap labour as possible.

While you may think its members have suddenly signed up to a conservative agenda and that the rmt is on the edge of a cliff, I'd say re-visit the opinion of those workers in a few years time without any pay rise, those workers who on the one hand are called key workers and heroes for working through a pandemic while commentators sit at home and now are regarded are some sort of inconvenience.

 

[whoosh]

No "basket case franchise" remark from RMT.

Disappointed...

 

[Journeyman]

It maybe good news for the union haters on this site and certainly to those who wish to see the railways run on a zero hours contract, minimum staffing and as cheap labour as possible.

While you may think its members have suddenly signed up to a conservative agenda and that the rmt is on the edge of a cliff, I'd say re-visit the opinion of those workers in a few years time without any pay rise, those workers who on the one hand are called key workers and heroes for working through a pandemic while commentators sit at home and now are regarded are some sort of inconvenience.

Well, the union members knew what the rules were, and chose not to vote in large numbers.

Democracy, eh?

 

[northernbelle]

It maybe good news for the union haters on this site and certainly to those who wish to see the railways run on a zero hours contract, minimum staffing and as cheap labour as possible.

While you may think its members have suddenly signed up to a conservative agenda and that the rmt is on the edge of a cliff, I'd say re-visit the opinion of those workers in a few years time without any pay rise, those workers who on the one hand are called key workers and heroes for working through a pandemic while commentators sit at home and now are regarded are some sort of inconvenience.

Nobody has said the members have suddenly signed up to a conservative agenda - but they have demonstrated that the proposal being made by their union wasn't the approach they wanted to take - a Union is supposed to reflect the feeling of its members.

 

[Turtle]

It maybe good news for the union haters on this site and certainly to those who wish to see the railways run on a zero hours contract, minimum staffing and as cheap labour as possible.

While you may think its members have suddenly signed up to a conservative agenda and that the rmt is on the edge of a cliff, I'd say re-visit the opinion of those workers in a few years time without any pay rise, those workers who on the one hand are called key workers and heroes for working through a pandemic while commentators sit at home and now are regarded are some sort of inconvenience.

Any chance of the 40% rule being applied in parliamentary elections?

 

[northernbelle]

Any chance of the 40% rule being applied in parliamentary elections?

Would any government ever get in?

The outcome of a 40% rule on a vote with multiple options is quite different to a binary yes/no/don't know question.

 

[43096]

Any chance of the 40% rule being applied in parliamentary elections?

Why? It’s a totally different situation.

 

[LowLevel]

It maybe good news for the union haters on this site and certainly to those who wish to see the railways run on a zero hours contract, minimum staffing and as cheap labour as possible.

While you may think its members have suddenly signed up to a conservative agenda and that the rmt is on the edge of a cliff, I'd say re-visit the opinion of those workers in a few years time without any pay rise, those workers who on the one hand are called key workers and heroes for working through a pandemic while commentators sit at home and now are regarded are some sort of inconvenience.

What value do you put on the various measures put in place during 2020 in the interest of railway staff?

Topping furlough pay up to 100% where appropriate

Paying people a full wage to do part of their duties (ScotRail conductors, and possibly ticket examiners, are still not undertaking revenue duties)

If not required being paid full wages to sit at home spare

Full pay without question for those shielding and self isolating

All with passenger numbers more suited to a fleet of taxis in many areas

I consider myself to have been very well looked after during the whole affair, the cost of which has been far more than an RPI pay rise.

Evidently a significant number of others agree.

Certain elements within the RMT have been practically having an orgasm at the idea of finally being able to call coordinated national strike action after 25 years. The members do not share that enthusiasm and I hope that they take note of that before embarrassing us because that is only the first ballot to go sour.

 

[43066]

What value do you put on the various measures put in place during 2020 in the interest of railway staff?

Topping furlough pay up to 100% where appropriate

Paying people a full wage to do part of their duties (ScotRail conductors, and possibly ticket examiners, are still not undertaking revenue duties)

If not required being paid full wages to sit at home spare

Full pay without question for those shielding and self isolating

All with passenger numbers more suited to a fleet of taxis in many areas

I consider myself to have been very well looked after during the whole affair, the cost of which has been far more than an RPI pay rise.

Evidently a significant number of others agree.

Certain elements within the RMT have been practically having an orgasm at the idea of finally being able to call coordinated national strike action after 25 years. The members do not share that enthusiasm and I hope that they take note of that before embarrassing us because that is only the first ballot to go sour.

A very sensible post indeed.

What on Earth are the RMT thinking? Even if they have a point re. pay (and they might), how do they think striking for a pay rise, for already relatively well paid people, is going to look at the moment?

To coin a dreadful phrase, it doesn’t have “good optics”.

 

[John Bishop]

What value do you put on the various measures put in place during 2020 in the interest of railway staff?

Topping furlough pay up to 100% where appropriate

Paying people a full wage to do part of their duties (ScotRail conductors, and possibly ticket examiners, are still not undertaking revenue duties)

If not required being paid full wages to sit at home spare

Full pay without question for those shielding and self isolating

All with passenger numbers more suited to a fleet of taxis in many areas

I consider myself to have been very well looked after during the whole affair, the cost of which has been far more than an RPI pay rise.

Evidently a significant number of others agree.

Certain elements within the RMT have been practically having an orgasm at the idea of finally being able to call coordinated national strike action after 25 years. The members do not share that enthusiasm and I hope that they take note of that before embarrassing us because that is only the first ballot to go sour.

Very well said LL! Some members need to wake up and see what’s going on in the real world out there and count their blessings for what they have. Of course if it’s really that bad working in their role, they could always resign and find a more acceptable job to them.......I’m not holding my breath though.

 

[scotraildriver]

Knowing a few RMT members in the shipping branch, there is a general feeling the ballot at Calmac is about to go the same way. General feeling is its just a totally inappropriate time and in the same vein as mentioned above people are just relieved to have relatively secure jobs.

 

[Journeyman]

A very sensible post indeed.

What on Earth are the RMT thinking? Even if they have a point re. pay (and they might), how do they think striking for a pay rise, for already relatively well paid people, is going to look at the moment?

To coin a dreadful phrase, it doesn’t have “good optics”.

Yup.

I work in the rail industry, but the work I do is on a contract/freelance basis for suppliers and consultants. I've lost tens of thousands in income this year, and the government has given me precisely nothing.

Excuse me if I don't rush to support the RMT here.

 

[6Z09]

What value do you put on the various measures put in place during 2020 in the interest of railway staff?

Topping furlough pay up to 100% where appropriate

Paying people a full wage to do part of their duties (ScotRail conductors, and possibly ticket examiners, are still not undertaking revenue duties)

If not required being paid full wages to sit at home spare

Full pay without question for those shielding and self isolating

All with passenger numbers more suited to a fleet of taxis in many areas

I consider myself to have been very well looked after during the whole affair, the cost of which has been far more than an RPI pay rise.

Evidently a significant number of others agree.

Certain elements within the RMT have been practically having an orgasm at the idea of finally being able to call coordinated national strike action after 25 years. The members do not share that enthusiasm and I hope that they take note of that before embarrassing us because that is only the first ballot to go sour.

Are all these benefits you listed not there because of the existence of Trade Unions?
I think they are!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2020 ==

Yup.

I work in the rail industry, but the work I do is on a contract/freelance basis for suppliers and consultants. I've lost tens of thousands in income this year, and the government has given me precisely nothing.

Excuse me if I don't rush to support the RMT here.

Sounds like you need to join a Union!

 

[LowLevel]

Are all these benefits you listed not there because of the existence of Trade Unions?
I think they are!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2020 ==


Sounds like you need to join a Union!

Ostensibly they were there because someone, possibly erroneously, decided that keeping the railway going was cheaper than shutting it down for the time being.

Do I want my cake and eat it? Most of a year sat on my backside, barely working 2/3s of my normal hours when I was in, not doing half my duties for months and so on. Then a strike to get a pay rise as well?

No thanks.

 

[43066]

Sounds like you need to join a Union!

Member of a railway trades union here.

Do you seriously imagine that a union going on strike for higher pay is what RMT should be doing right now? If so, I’m afraid you’re just as deluded as their union leadership are (and clearly divorced from their members).

That’s a very quick way to provoke the government to pass legislation hobbling future strikes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2020 ==

Ostensibly they were there because someone, possibly erroneously, decided that keeping the railway going was cheaper than shutting it down for the time being.

Do I want my cake and eat it? Most of a year sat on my backside, barely working 2/3s of my normal hours when I was in, not doing half my duties for months and so on. Then a strike to get a pay rise as well?

No thanks.

These operational jobs of ours don't get any easier, despite the lack of passengers, do they!?

Hammering towards London at 120, you still need to drop a lot of brake when you get a single yellow on the three aspect sections. Those TPWS grids are just waiting to spoil your day...

(I’m told that) if you drive it like an absolute bat out of hell, precisely to the speeds, south of Bedford, you’ll soon make up the time...

There’s still an enjoyment in the job of driving trains.

 

[alangla]

Given the way the timetable is being slashed in December to reduce the amount of fresh air being carted around Scotland, one suspects that a secure job in the rail industry is something to be grateful for. It wouldn’t be too difficult for the TOC to sell the idea of significant job cuts, especially in roles requiring less training than drivers, I.e. the ones the RMT represent. The RMT really ought to focus their efforts on keeping as many of their members in employment as possible over the next year and, if that’s not possible, ensuring the ones that genuinely want to go get decent payoffs.

 

[dctraindriver]

As for striking, at the moment as a proud union member I say keep your powder dry for a wee while. This isn’t one I’d be voting for.

 

[43066]

As for striking, at the moment as a proud union member I say keep your powder dry for a wee while. This isn’t one I’d be voting for.

Agreed.

 

[Surreytraveller]

My mum has to clean a school, where's her 27 grand? I don't think it's a bad profession, just 27k is too steep in the current climate.

Does your mum have to clean blood and guts from underneath trains after a fatality?
Does your mum work night shifts?
Is your mum required to be competent in Track Safety?
There's cleaners, and then there's cleaners

 

[Energy]

Does your mum have to clean blood and guts from underneath trains after a fatality?

These cleaners don't deal with that. Fatalities get specialist cleaners who are usually external contractors who specially deal with things like crime scenes and fatalities.

 

[AgentGemini]

Not the best time for a strike and I think the membership have realised this. While Abellio as a TOC owner across the UK are dreadful, striking when rail staff have not been furloughed, kept their same basic pay and contracted hours while often on less working hours....is not a good move. If you looked at it as 'pay per hour' rail staff have made a good one during covid.
As for the figures quoted on staff, half of those are bull****. Cleaners are certainly not earning 27k a year. Most are just above minimum wage.

People who want to see unions put out of business and staff salaries reduced, because of envy....good luck with dealing with the aslef.

 

[Horizon22]

Any chance of the 40% rule being applied in parliamentary elections?

40% turnout? Every constituency reaches that. 40% of the vote? That's a different matter.

 

[TUC]

40% turnout? Every constituency reaches that. 40% of the vote? That's a different matter.

The remaining 60% could just ignore the result and choose to work. No one makes them strike. They should just go to work if they don't support a strike.

 

[whoosh]

The remaining 60% could just ignore the result and choose to work. No one makes them strike. They should just go to work if they don't support a strike.

Fortunately then, the ballot has not achieved the criteria for being a valid one with which to call a strike. Despite RMT's complaints about this, it will actually do them a favour, as a strike actually being called, low numbers actually agreeing with it (who'd also be lumped in with the ones that did in the bad press that would inevitably result) and members maybe crossing picket lines if their feeling was strong, would only weaken the union. Which would not be a good thing.

 

[ainsworth74]

Fortunately then, the ballot has not achieved the criteria for being a valid one with which to call a strike. Despite RMT's complaints about this, it will actually do them a favour, as a strike actually being called, low numbers actually agreeing with it (who'd also be lumped in with the ones that did in the bad press that would inevitably result) and members maybe crossing picket lines if their feeling was strong, would only weaken the union. Which would not be a good thing.

In some respects this is the best outcome for them. They get to retreat whilst being able to crow about a "strong mandate only beaten by anti-union Tory laws" and avoid either a losing the vote outright and possibly heavily or alternatively winning the vote and finding that adherence isn't good. Lot's of possible downsides if, as suspected, there is not strong support for the RMT position amongst the rank and file members.

 

[Bow Fell]

Yep, agreed with some of the comments here @LowLevel especially.

We are very well paid, and I work in a very demanding safety critical role.

Have worked constantly all year, practically lived in work due to COVID-related absences due to self-inflicted overtime as well as being spare.

I think everyone on the railway has worked really hard to keep things going this year and I’d say any other time a pay rise would be deserved. But not this year. Very unusual set of circumstances and the fact that employment on the railway has been preserved (mostly) I think we are very very lucky.

I support the RMT on a lot (and not so much on other things) but I hope myself and other members think very carefully before voting yes on a ballot.

 

[falcon]

Ballot result:

Strike action YES: 756 NO: 631
Action short of a strike YES: 955 NO: 432

However only 1393 votes returned from 2445 issued so YES is 31% of available votes. The legal minimum is 40% so the action is rejected.

What is this legal minimum? 40%?

Is that rule a statutory rule for any ballots, or just a Railway companies v Unions Rule?

 

[ainsworth74]

What is this legal minimum? 40%?

Is that rule a statutory rule for any ballots, or just a Railway companies v Unions Rule?

Been in for a few years now on strike ballots for important public services:

Trade Union Act measures come into force today (1 March 2017) to protect millions of people from the effects of undemocratic strike action.

The Act will ensure that if strikes do go ahead it will only be as a result of a clear democratic decision from union members thanks to the introduction of tougher ballot thresholds.

From today, fresh ballots will have to achieve at least a 50% turnout of eligible union members, with a majority voting in favour of strike action. In important public services - including in the health, education and transport sectors - an additional threshold of 40% of support from all eligible members must be met for action to be legal.

Trade Union Act measures come into force to protect people from undemocratic industrial action

Measures coming into force today (1 March 2017) will protect millions of people from the effects of undemocratic strike action

www.gov.uk