Confirmation that Pacers should be abolished

[EltonRoad]

... if any were needed.

Yesterday, bank holiday Monday, our two-car Pacer "expired" on the Exmouth branch just short of the mainline. Eventually, a four-car Pacer was sent to drag it to St Davids. Whatever the fault was on the first Pacer was then transferred to the new one, meaning we screeched and jolted our way off the branch eventually into Exeter Central over 1 hr late. A coach then took us to St Davids as it was unsafe to allow passengers on the six-car Pacer down the steep slope into St Davids.

To cap off the journey even further (destination Norwich), the HST was 30 mins down. There were then no trains from London Liverpool Street, so it was Central Line to Newbury Park (that's quite a long way out in Zone 4), a coach to Ingatestone, another wait, and finally another 1 hr 40 on NXEA to Norwich. I departed Exmouth at 2 pm and arrived home in a taxi well after midnight.

Next time I do this journey, shall I take the train or drive? I think I know which!

 

[northwichcat]

It's been known since the mid 1980s that Pacers screech on sharp bends and struggle on gradients and yet the only thing that's come out of that is they are banned from a few lines.

 

[TEW]

All trains fail from time to time, you just got unlucky. Any train could have failed making the same journey.

 

[asylumxl]

I may be totally wrong, but I'd imagine it was some kind of brake issue.

 

[me123]

Next time I do this journey, shall I take the train or drive? I think I know which!

All trains fail from time to time, you just got unlucky. Any train could have failed making the same journey.

... and you could just as easily get unlucky with the roads as well! Exmouth to Norwich presumably takes you along such wonderful roads as the M5, M4 and M25. All renowned for their congestion. I can think of many occasions when I've been affected by traffic problems on the roads. In fact, I'd go as far to say that roads are less reliable than rail on the whole.

Clearly you've had a bad experience, but it could happen just as easily if you were in your car for different reasons. The only difference is that, if this kind of delay had happened in your car, you'd be stuck behind the wheel driving rather than just being a passenger.

 

[Oliver]

All trains fail from time to time, you just got unlucky. Any train could have failed making the same journey.

Yes, and road journeys can also be a nightmare, but by any standards Pacers were a bad design when built, and the fact that they are still in service today reflects no credit on the anyone, except the poor sods whose job is to maintain them.

 

[TEW]

The guys maintaining them have done a good job, and the reliability of pacer fleets isn't so bad any more.

 

[Invincibles]

Everyone wants something new and shiny to travel on, usually that means a new car.

In reality things go wrong and that is true of almost every mechanical device ever released so calling for anything mechanical to be scrapped on that basis is pretty nonsensical.

To me there is nothing wrong with pacers, they are just not as good as some of their more expensive or more modern counterparts.

 

[MCR247]

Yes, and road journeys can also be a nightmare, but by any standards Pacers were a bad design when built, and the fact that they are still in service today reflects no credit on the anyone, except the poor sods whose job is to maintain them.

But they were built to last what 10 years max on the cheap

 

[Anvil1984]

143s and 144s are ok but 142s are a mixed bunch (from abysmal to mediocre), the ones still with the original bus seats are not very nice at all and as for the Merseyrail ones... No comment.

They have their uses 14xs can carry more bikes and have more places to store things than some of their counterparts BUT quite simply they are too small nowadays for the routes they run, uncomfortable over jointed track, are never going to be DDA compliant (please see a huge thread about this), hate corners (Crimple Curve anyone?) and are used on long distance routes not the branchlines they were intended for.

However they are very simple trains to work and maintain. No onboard computers showing faults which clearly don't exist. To say they are better than other trains is probably pushing it but they are decent workhorses.

 

[WatcherZero]

Sprinter on the Atherton line today instead of my normal pacer, was like riding on silk!

 

[Lampshade]

143s and 144s are ok but 142s are a mixed bunch (from abysmal to mediocre), the ones still with the original bus seats are not very nice at all and as for the Merseyrail ones... No comment.

Seconded. I've travelled into Manchester Victoria on 144s and I find them to be better than some Sprinters (certainly 150s and 153s). I can't comment on 143s but they can't be that much different and they look rather good from pictures like this. 142 are definitely a mixed bag, the ones that have been refurbished well are rather good, the ATW refurbs spring to mind, but there seems to be a distinct lack of will to spend money on them meaning Northern especially, are running them round almost unchanged since they were built.

 

[truckman060473]

It's been known since the mid 1980s that Pacers screech on sharp bends and struggle on gradients and yet the only thing that's come out of that is they are banned from a few lines.

When my 7yr old son sees one in the distance he shouts out "look daddy, a screeching train"!

 

[4SRKT]

Quite a number of us on here are pacer veg and you insult 'em at your peril!

 

[tbtc]

To cap off the journey even further (destination Norwich), the HST was 30 mins down

Conformation that HSTs should be abolished, if any were needed?

All units have flaws and reliability issues. The Pacers are functional and have kept branchlines like the one you mention open (due to being very cheap to run).

Look on the bright side; in a few months time there'll be no more 142s in the West Country (easily the worst of the Pacers), replaced by bigger/ better 150s.

We in Lancashire/ Yorkshire, on the other hand, are getting the Pacers instead. I wouldn't complain if I were you :-x

 

[142094]

Quite a number of us on here are pacer veg and you insult 'em at your peril!

I'll take that as a cue...

All trains fail at some stage, just unlucky that you got on one that did. I'm sure I and many others on here can point to journeys where Pacers haven't failed and lasted the whole trip.

Going back to the design, they do the job they were built for very well, however it is not their fault that we have a lack of rolling stock across the network and they are used on some routes where they shouldn't be. Plus anyone complaining about the ride, where are we going to get the new stock to replace them from?

I have to say I find it strange to see people complaining about the ride they get on a Pacer being bumpy, yet when they get on a mk1 or something similar they seem to be very happy with all the noise and bumps.

 

[route:oxford]

Here's how you go about getting rid of the "pacers" and making quite a bit of money in the meantime.

First of all, using your personal fortune you develop a new unit that is fully DDA compliant, meets all safety requirements, is so gentle on the track that Network Rail charges a "peppercorn" access charge and is very frugal with fuel.

Next you order 150 3 car sets for delivery under the cover of darkness to a remote MOD site (just to raise interest amongst enthusiasts).

Finally you invite the media and take a 142, load it up with "crash test dummies" and run it at full speed into a LGV fully laden with aggregates on a level crossing.

Pretend to look "shocked" at the devestation and "dead & severely injured" dummies and point out that you happen to enough new trains ready to replace these old death-traps - if only the DfT considered the safety of passengers in the North important and would lease them from you...

Sorted

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Here's how you go about getting rid of the "pacers" and making quite a bit of money in the meantime.

First of all, using your personal fortune you develop a new unit that is fully DDA compliant, meets all safety requirements, is so gentle on the track that Network Rail charges a "peppercorn" access charge and is very frugal with fuel.

Next you order 150 3 car sets for delivery under the cover of darkness to a remote MOD site (just to raise interest amongst enthusiasts).

Finally you invite the media and take a 142, load it up with "crash test dummies" and run it at full speed into a LGV fully laden with aggregates on a level crossing.

Pretend to look "shocked" at the devestation and "dead & severely injured" dummies and point out that you happen to enough new trains ready to replace these old death-traps - if only the DfT considered the safety of passengers in the North important and would lease them from you...

Sorted

Superb, I am actually laughing like a school kid!

 

[northwichcat]

When my 7yr old son sees one in the distance he shouts out "look daddy, a screeching train"!

When I was waiting on Piccadilly platform 13 a 142 going to Chester went past screeching and one kid said "That train's not going to make it to Chester." Then a few minutes later a Pacer running Manchester Airport to Southport was approaching platform 14 and the same kid said "Not another train that's about to break down."

 

[4SRKT]

When I was waiting on Piccadilly platform 13 a 142 going to Chester went past screeching and one kid said "That train's not going to make it to Chester." Then a few minutes later a Pacer running Manchester Airport to Southport was approaching platform 14 and the same kid said "Not another train that's about to break down."

Although TBF they don't actually break down often. Not like class 50s in the 1980s which were always knackered and caused real problems, expecially when failing on long single tracked routes like Salisbury > Exeter. Everyone loved them though despite this, so the Pacer Hate can't be on the grounds of reliability IMHO.

 

[trentside]

I'll freely admit that I don't mind if a Pacer turns up on a service I'm using, as most of the time I'm just looking to get from A to B, and the majority of the time a Pacer does just that. I think many passengers feel the same.

We all know that Pacers can be rough riding, but their low build cost and general simplicity has no doubt helped to justify keeping many lines open.

 

[merlodlliw]

It's been known since the mid 1980s that Pacers screech on sharp bends and struggle on gradients and yet the only thing that's come out of that is they are banned from a few lines.

The line between Cardiff Central & Queen St is screech ally as the bucking broncos climb the overbridge

 

[flymo]

I actually thoroughly enjoy a thrash on a pacer. Long may they live (as if there is any choice).

You'll miss them when they are gone *...

* Well perhaps.

 

[northwichcat]

View http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJHwbgk3ynU around 4 minutes in for a very bouncy Pacer leaving Chester in FNW days.

 

[SirBroccoli]

I presume you were travelling on the 14:23 Exmouth-Paignton service then, because I was on the 13:43 Barnstaple-Exmouth which picked you up.

And yes, whilst it was an inconvenience, I have to credit both the conductor and the driver for providing regular updates and checking that everyone was well!!

 

[Anvil1984]

The 14x should not be scrapped post main line withdrawl whilst i'm at it. I'm sure one or two user groups or heritage lines could use them to introduce regular services / bring old lines back to live, going back to there original intended use of keeping lines open

 

[142094]

The 14x should not be scrapped post main line withdrawl whilst i'm at it. I'm sure one or two user groups or heritage lines could use them to introduce regular services / bring old lines back to live, going back to there original intended use of keeping lines open

Correct, just look what the Weardale Railway uses (141s if anyone doesn't know), and I've been told by people that they are well used now since the line reopened to Bishop Auckland.

 

[4SRKT]

Correct, just look what the Weardale Railway uses (141s if anyone doesn't know), and I've been told by people that they are well used now since the line reopened to Bishop Auckland.

What sort of service are they operating on this? And what are the platforming arrangements at BA? Last time I was there I could swear the platform was on a siding facing towards Darlington.

 

[ainsworth74]

They've built a temporary station called Bishop Auckland West you can just see it from the current NR station. They run about 6 return services per day between Bishop and Stanhope using the 141 on a weekday, on weekends they're more like a traditional heritage railway.

Edit: Their timetable is here.

 

[daikilo]

View http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJHwbgk3ynU around 4 minutes in for a very bouncy Pacer leaving Chester in FNW days.

Looks to me like the track dips were particularly deep that day! Probably more comfortable (and a lot less noisy) than a bus going into a pot-hole.