Intercity 125 Locomotive Replacement

[WatcherZero]

So, according to todays FT the currently favoured option for replacing the IEP program by both the government and ROSCOs is ordering new electric locomotives to replace the diesel Class 43 HST and refurbing the existing carriages. Bombardier (reserve option on IEP) is the front runner for this work pushing an adaptation of its Traxx. Its also thought that bi-mode trains could run by retaining and refurbing some of the old power cars.

Does the fact their still pushing an electric replacement instead of simple refurb of 43 suggest electrification is still on?

 

[jamesontheroad]

If it's a ground-up solution, then I'd argue for an electric loco at one end and a diesel at the other. Not the most efficient (due to the extra weight) but it would be a low cost way of extending the life of the the valuable and reliable mk. 3 stock.

As a precedent for such a replacement, VIA Rail in Canada replaced the locomotives in the LRC trains with P42s.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

So, according to todays FT the currently favoured option for replacing the IEP program by both the government and ROSCOs is ordering new electric locomotives to replace the diesel Class 43 HST and refurbing the existing carriages. Bombardier (reserve option on IEP) is the front runner for this work pushing an adaptation of its Traxx. Its also thought that bi-mode trains could run by retaining and refurbing some of the old power cars.

Does the fact their still pushing an electric replacement instead of simple refurb of 43 suggest electrification is still on?

I think if you read the article again, you'll see that the electric locos are being proposed as replacements for Class 90 on the London - Norwich route, which is wholly electrified. Anything more is pure speculation and unlikely to happen, for a number of reasons: -

1. there is no justification for replacing Class 91 locos on the ECML
2. Voyagers / Meridians with panto cars will provide sufficient capacity on those routes (maybe Midland Main Line and possibly GWML as far as Reading) that do successfully negotiate the cost cutting and get electrified
3. Life extension of HSTs will suffice on those routes that don't get electrified, for a few more years yet, until we get our act together and learn to live within our means and still manage to afford new trains.

Personally, I think that the Great Eastern main line could muddle along with Class 90s, perhaps with some reliability enhancements and a good overhaul for quite some time yet.

 

[WatcherZero]

Nope, reading again it is talking about replacing the diesel 43's and keeping existing carriages as a cheaper alternative to the £9.5bn Hitachi order. Doesnt mention 91's or existing electric powers cars, or London-Norwich services at all.

The 225 replacement was always tacked on efficency in bulk to the main purpose of 125 replacement on the Great Western.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Nope, reading again it is talking about replacing the diesel 43's and keeping existing carriages as a cheaper alternative to the £9.5bn Hitachi order. Doesnt mention 91's or existing electric powers cars, or London-Norwich services at all.

The 225 replacement was always tacked on efficency in bulk to the main purpose of 125 replacement on the Great Western.

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't being clear. What I meant to say was that the only part of the article that had been confirmed as being true, was the bit about Norwich - London...

Quoting from the article "Bombardier said it had already been exploring Traxx’s potential to replace 1980s-built locomotives that haul trains between London and Norwich. However, it declined to speculate about whether that could expand into an order to upgrade the InterCity 125".

The rest, including my theories about whether anything else is likely, or unlikely to happen, is pure speculation.

 

[WatcherZero]

They would be bound by confidentiality claims anyway and couldnt say if they were or not on the record. October we will known one way or the other.

According to people involved, Department for Transport officials have been talking to train leasing companies about the potential for electric locomotives to haul coaches from the existing InterCity 125s

I.e. we are talking aboout it but cant say it on the record.