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Is York being ambitious enough ?

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LMS 4F

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It's Lendal Bridge. And the outcry there was over that shows just how backward a city York is!
Living there at the time of the closure it was surely the wrong bridge that was closed, it should have been the middle one.
As to the issue of the wrong signs, I was told by a Council official that they wanted to wait longer whilst they got it all correct but the politicians wanted it done to soon. Sounds about right and didn’t everyone who got fined get their money back this costing the council tax payers for incompetence.
 
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greyman42

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Many places have Bus Stations which are not in the middle of the city or town centre.Leeds for example is no closer to the town hall than my idea is to Parliament St in York.
People do not go into Leeds to visit the town hall, they go for the shopping which is not far from the bus station.
 

DB

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People do not go into Leeds to visit the town hall, they go for the shopping which is not far from the bus station.

Leeds bus station is reasonably well sited, although it's a pity it's not closer to the railway station.
 

greyman42

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Living there at the time of the closure it was surely the wrong bridge that was closed, it should have been the middle one.
As to the issue of the wrong signs, I was told by a Council official that they wanted to wait longer whilst they got it all correct but the politicians wanted it done to soon. Sounds about right and didn’t everyone who got fined get their money back this costing the council tax payers for incompetence.
In York, if you close Lendal or Ouse bridge, you just put the traffic onto the inner ring road which then grinds to a halt so a solution is difficult.
 

DB

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In York, if you close Lendal or Ouse bridge, you just put the traffic onto the inner ring road which then grinds to a halt so a solution is difficult.

York needs a better public transport system. The park and rides aren't bad, but the other bus routes can be rather disjointed.

It could also do with more suburban rail stations (it has one, Poppleton, which is very poor for a city of its size. Haxby is the obvious one which should be top priority - would be fairly easy to do, and the Scarborough line is not busy so shouldn't cause any major issues, and there is a lot of housing in Haxby. Been talked about for years but nothing ever happens.
 

greyman42

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York needs a better public transport system. The park and rides aren't bad, but the other bus routes can be rather disjointed.

It could also do with more suburban rail stations (it has one, Poppleton, which is very poor for a city of its size. Haxby is the obvious one which should be top priority - would be fairly easy to do, and the Scarborough line is not busy so shouldn't cause any major issues, and there is a lot of housing in Haxby. Been talked about for years but nothing ever happens.
There is a thread on the Haxby station subject somewhere on the forum.
 

LMS 4F

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People do not go into Leeds to visit the town hall, they go for the shopping which is not far from the bus station.
A lot of the shops in Leeds are as far from the bus station as is the town hall. My point was that a bus station does not have to be right bin the middle of a town or city to be worthwhile. This is of the situation in many places and is a poor excuse for York not having such a facility.
 

greyman42

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A lot of the shops in Leeds are as far from the bus station as is the town hall. My point was that a bus station does not have to be right bin the middle of a town or city to be worthwhile. This is of the situation in many places and is a poor excuse for York not having such a facility.
I don't think there is the demand for a new bus station in York. It is not a subject that really gets brought up.
 

DB

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I don't think there is the demand for a new bus station in York. It is not a subject that really gets brought up.

York is a car-based city, and public transport is never a high priority. The locals don't want to fight the traffic and pay a fortune to park in the centre, so they drive to the out of town shopping centres.

Meanwhile, the centre becomes largely bars and restaurants, and a thoroughly unpleasant place to be on a normal Saturday evening.
 

greyman42

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York is a car-based city, and public transport is never a high priority. The locals don't want to fight the traffic and pay a fortune to park in the centre, so they drive to the out of town shopping centres.

Meanwhile, the centre becomes largely bars and restaurants, and a thoroughly unpleasant place to be on a normal Saturday evening.
York is a pleasant and relatively safe City for a night out. I love it and cannot wait for a return to normal.
 

DB

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York is a pleasant and relatively safe City for a night out. I love it and cannot wait for a return to normal.

Our opinions differ, clearly!

It used to be fine 15 years ago, but more recently it's really not, since it became a popular choice for hen and stag parties, and the number of large pubs in the central area increased.
 

greyman42

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Our opinions differ, clearly!

It used to be fine 15 years ago, but more recently it's really not, since it became a popular choice for hen and stag parties, and the number of large pubs in the central area increased.
That is just supply and demand but it is clearly very popular which suggests it must have something going for it, and it is not cheap drinks.
 

yorkie

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Many places have Bus Stations which are not in the middle of the city or town centre.Leeds for example is no closer to the town hall than my idea is to Parliament St in York.
Foss Island Morrisons is literally the other side of town to the railway station; on Google maps it's a 26 minute walk (1.2 miles).

It's not comparable to the situation at Leeds, which is only 11 minutes walk. The bus station at Leeds is on the very edge of the city centre but it is arguably within the centre (just!) while Foss Islands is a few minutes walk from the eastern edge of York city centre.

A map comparing the two is attached

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

York is a car-based city, and public transport is never a high priority. The locals don't want to fight the traffic and pay a fortune to park in the centre, so they drive to the out of town shopping centres.

Meanwhile, the centre becomes largely bars and restaurants, and a thoroughly unpleasant place to be on a normal Saturday evening.
It is, kind of. But a lot of people walk and cycle.

I agree public transport is lacking and it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

I rarely use public transport in York, despite not owning a car. In fact of all the most recent occasions I've got a bus in York it's been because I've done a long walk, e.g. to Strensall, and got a bus back to my side of the city.
 

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LMS 4F

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Does a bus station have to be near the railway station. York station well served with buses right outside and no doubt many of them would go to or come from any bus station. In an ideal world York would have an all singing and dancing transport interchange but that isn’t going to happen.
 

YorksLad12

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Leeds bus station is reasonably well sited, although it's a pity it's not closer to the railway station.

Leeds bus station is next door to Leeds Markets (shopping) and the new Victoriagate place (more shopping), although it was also opposite the huge Quarry Hill flats. When it was built it was perfectly sited. Leeds rail station, however, is more a product of geography and series of compromises. The problem York has is that if you want to build anything new you usually have to knock something really old down first, or get the tarmac down before the archaeologists get a look in.
 

DB

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or get the tarmac down before the archaeologists get a look in.

Not familiar with planning laws then?

You can't just stick tarmac down and hope that nobody notices. Any building project which requires digging in central York will require surveys, and that will be built into the cost of the build.
 

Bald Rick

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It used to be fine 15 years ago, but more recently it's really not, since it became a popular choice for hen and stag parties, and the number of large pubs in the central area increased.

I once counted 17 different hen nights in one evening out in York. Bizarrely, they must have all sub-consciously communicated, and all had different themes for their fancy dress.

That was 18 years ago, so it was just as popular for that type of ‘customer’ back then. And it was great!

Re the need for a bus station - I disagree. I was a regular bus user, mostly to the south on the 11, but sometimes the P&Rs, never had a problem. Indeed I don’t see the point of a bus station anywhere.
 

HarryL

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Does a bus station have to be near the railway station.
I don't think they do to be honest, the only benefit of having them close to each other is interchanging between them.

But even then, take Leeds as an example as it's been mentioned, the bus station only really serves intercity buses or ones from large towns in the area. The local commuter ones tend to terminate at street stops, so the chance you would need to travel to the bus station then walk across to the railway is lessened. In fact having them close by would be more annoying for the majority of people using the bus station as its a further walk to where they want to be.
 

DB

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I once counted 17 different hen nights in one evening out in York. Bizarrely, they must have all sub-consciously communicated, and all had different themes for their fancy dress.

That was 18 years ago, so it was just as popular for that type of ‘customer’ back then. And it was great!

That wasn't the norm back then, and those that did come tended to congregate in the Micklegate area, leaving the main part of city centre relatively civilised. Since then it's migrated across the river and most of the centre is like it on a normal Saturday evening, especially in summer.
 

LMS 4F

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I once counted 17 different hen nights in one evening out in York. Bizarrely, they must have all sub-consciously communicated, and all had different themes for their fancy dress.

That was 18 years ago, so it was just as popular for that type of ‘customer’ back then. And it was great!

Re the need for a bus station - I disagree. I was a regular bus user, mostly to the south on the 11, but sometimes the P&Rs, never had a problem. Indeed I don’t see the point of a bus station anywhere.
Why do we have railway stations in that case? Having waited for coaches for long distance travel in York stood in the open with luggage I know why I want a bus station.
 

YorksLad12

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Not familiar with planning laws then?

You can't just stick tarmac down and hope that nobody notices. Any building project which requires digging in central York will require surveys, and that will be built into the cost of the build.

I was joshing.
 

Bald Rick

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That wasn't the norm back then, and those that did come tended to congregate in the Micklegate area, leaving the main part of city centre relatively civilised. Since then it's migrated across the river and most of the centre is like it on a normal Saturday evening, especially in summer.
It absolutely was the norm, every weekend from around Easter to September. Maybe not 17, but usually half a dozen or so. Hen nights only though, no stag nights. They went to Toon or Amsterdam.

Also, they were generally to be found in the bars the other side of the river - Pitcher & Piano, City Screen, Kennedy’s, Etc. There would regularly be 3 or 4 separate hen nights in any one of them. I speak as someone who spent pretty much every Thursday / Friday / Saturday night out in York back then.


Why do we have railway stations in that case?

Because trains can’t stop by the side of the road.
 

Halifaxlad

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That wouldn't be feasible.

The area between 6/7/8 is where the stairs come down, and losing that would create unnacceptable bottlenecks - the platforms aren't particularly wide, and this would require one set of stairs to platforms 7/8/9 and another set to a narrow island created out of 5/6/empty one by 8. It's also a listed building, and although the actual railway itself has exemption from planning laws, this doesn't apply to all parts of a station.

The empty bay next to 8 would be of little use if it were to be reinstated as a bay, as there aren't many terminating trains from the north. However, 8 is needed for Harrogate line trains, and there is nowhere to put that bay on the eastern side.

Reinstating the bay next to platform 1, and the one beside that where the bike racks are, might be feasible, but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve - they aren't that long (platform 1 can just take 6x23m vehicles as I recall) and not sure that there is a demand currently. It could also create more crossing moves across the station throat, which wouldn't be ideal.
As acknowledged (A new stair access could be constructed outside the main shed on platform 9) where they're is ample room. Obviously this may require a few of the rooms on P9 to be configured. At the moment footbridge access to 9 is via 6,7 & 8. This would simply make it the otherway around. Planning shouldn't be too hard considering it would improve views through the station.

Whilst 6 would become an island platform, at least they're is no-need to relocate lifts as well since these are already provided separately to a subway that is also accessed by stairs. Already it should be wide enough for new steps on both sides of the footbridge straight down to platform level.

Although ideally P5 could take use of where the through lines were lifted in the 80's and be pushed outwards to make it about as wide as P3 opposite. Although this isn't necessary its something I would like to see done anyway.

I do have an idea of how Harrogate services could be shifted over to the Eastern side of the station which is in the thread: 'How could you build extra platforms at York?' started by Meerkat on the 29th September 2020. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/how-could-you-build-extra-platforms-at-york.209665/ Although for this suggestion, that wouldn't be necessarily as Harrogate services could simply be used in P8 with 6 and the adjacent disused bay next to 8 making up another through platform instead.

This particular suggestion is basically about creating one more through platform through the main shed so that P11 could be removed to allow P10 to be lengthened to the same length of P9 opposite, oh and have direct level access from P10 out of the station.

The purpose of reinstating the bay adjacent to P1 is to move the turnback services from P6 or P7 so that either of these could be made into a through platform. Lengthening this shouldn't be an issue although it may mean a few car parking spaces are lost on the Eastern side of the station.

Regarding crossing conflicts, ideally these do want to be addressed although this would be better if it was done at Colton Junction that is quite happily surrounded by fields. Don't P6 & P7 services have to cross the throat anyway, just that this is done when departing as opposed to arriving ?
 

LMS 4F

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It absolutely was the norm, every weekend from around Easter to September. Maybe not 17, but usually half a dozen or so. Hen nights only though, no stag nights. They went to Toon or Amsterdam.

Also, they were generally to be found in the bars the other side of the river - Pitcher & Piano, City Screen, Kennedy’s, Etc. There would regularly be 3 or 4 separate hen nights in any one of them. I speak as someone who spent pretty much every Thursday / Friday / Saturday night out in York back then.




Because trains can’t stop by the side of the road.
Maybe not but they could just have a platform nearby. No need for shops,ticket offices, etoilets, cafes and all the rest. If bus passengers can do without them then why not bus riders.
Most bus stations have most if not all of these facilities and if more people are to be encouraged to use Public transport then surely as users should get then best facilities possible.
 

Dunnyrail

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York needs a better public transport system. The park and rides aren't bad, but the other bus routes can be rather disjointed.

It could also do with more suburban rail stations (it has one, Poppleton, which is very poor for a city of its size. Haxby is the obvious one which should be top priority - would be fairly easy to do, and the Scarborough line is not busy so shouldn't cause any major issues, and there is a lot of housing in Haxby. Been talked about for years but nothing ever happens.
I worked in the Train Timing Section at York in 1972 and they were talking about the re-opening of Haxby Station even then. Rail improvements do indeed take a long time to gestate and of course will cost so much more now as Station design plus regulations have been revised so much that a sub 10’s of millions station build is a near impossibility.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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Could a parkway station be a thing?
For visitors from away, it would be best if the bus station were by the city train station
..
Not been to York for many years, but I did pick up a brochure about the city a few years ago, it did not mention rail travel
I mailed the tourist information, asking whether trains still called there %)
The next issue of the brochure had a big advert for train travel
..
Used to visit York many years ago for the ctc cycling rally on the Knavesmire, and the cyclists service in the Minster
 
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LMS 4F

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Visitors to the city can reach almost anywhere beyond walking distance by frequent bus from outside the station.
The area outside of the Station where the bus stops are is hardly inviting on the into town side. No seating and often undesirable people hanging about and the chance to get your weekly dose of vehicle pollution whilst you wait. At least the other side has shelters with some seating and the station side is under a roof for most but not all services.The whole area could do with improving to make it more user friendly.
 

Bald Rick

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The area outside of the Station where the bus stops are is hardly inviting on the into town side. No seating and often undesirable people hanging about and the chance to get your weekly dose of vehicle pollution whilst you wait. At least the other side has shelters with some seating and the station side is under a roof for most but not all services.The whole area could do with improving to make it more user friendly.

What, like this?

 

LMS 4F

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What, like this?

Being York and given the councils record I wouldn’t advise anyone to hold their breath.
 
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