Low Speed Derailment Sheffield 11/11

[FrodshamJnct]

Whilst keeping checking the Sheffield live train map on traksy after the derailment there are some odd codes showing at the platforms. What does T3, Poss, Unit and Ne2u mean please? Thanks.

T3 and Poss together are T3 Possession. Unit just refers to a unit that is currently occupying that section. There are a few parked up at Sheffield overnight I think which won’t have been able to move since the derailment.

 

[Snow1964]

The issue with bullhead track being?

I suspect it’s a question of age not it’s strength
It must be something like 40-50 years since any bullhead rail was ordered for plain line on main lines.

If it still exists, how long have the sleepers and screwbolts that hold the chairs been there, are they still tight and wooden sleeper still able to grip them. Rather points (and I don’t want to jump or hint at anything) that rail might not be as tightly fixed as it once was, so possibly spread etc

 

[Crossover]

It looks like platform 5 is back in operation again today, from the south end only

EDIT: As is platform 6 southbound

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2020 ==

NORTHERN Lincoln-Retford-Worksop-Sheffield: replaced by buses

Looking at RTT, it looks like trains are running on this route

195004 ran the first service through this morning (all were cancelled yesterday)

Realtime Trains - 2P03 0635½ Sheffield to Lincoln Central

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[WestRiding]

Whilst keeping checking the Sheffield live train map on traksy after the derailment there are some odd codes showing at the platforms. What does T3, Poss, Unit and Ne2u mean please? Thanks.

Unit = a unit/dmu
T3/Poss = engineers possession
Ne2u = north end of 2 up station sidings, it will have been a shunt.

 

[palmersears]

A VSTP has gone in for today for a Hope (Earles Sidings) to Dewsbury Cement to run the other way along the Hope Valley, then via Huddersfield:

Realtime Trains - 661I 1043 Hope (Earles Sidings) Fhh to Dewsbury Blue Circle

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mcmad]

I suspect it’s a question of age not it’s strength
It must be something like 40-50 years since any bullhead rail was ordered for plain line on main lines.

If it still exists, how long have the sleepers and screwbolts that hold the chairs been there, are they still tight and wooden sleeper still able to grip them. Rather points (and I don’t want to jump or hint at anything) that rail might not be as tightly fixed as it once was, so possibly spread etc

Bullhead track is still being replaced like for like in many locations particularly complex low speed station area where a change to flatbottom would result in wholesale geometry changes and rural lines. Was there not a news fluff piece a year or so ago about NR sending a boat load of flatbottom rail to Thurso as the whole branch was being rerailed?

 

[syorksdeano]

Could this be moving the rest of the wagons? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/72074/2020-11-12/detailed

 

[Broken70]

Could this be moving the rest of the wagons? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/72074/2020-11-12/detailed

No, This looks like a ballast train or recovery/emergency train. Running as a class 6 so with wagons already in the consist.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

No, This looks like a ballast train or recovery/emergency train. Running as a class 6 so with wagons already in the consist.

66534 running as 6Z99 with a crane to upright the derailed wagons.

 

[Crossover]

A VSTP has gone in for today for a Hope (Earles Sidings) to Dewsbury Cement to run the other way along the Hope Valley, then via Huddersfield:

Realtime Trains - 661I 1043 Hope (Earles Sidings) Fhh to Dewsbury Blue Circle

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Well, maybe. Rather delayed in departing!

EDIT: Just departed as I typed the above!

 

[Spartacus]

Could this be moving the rest of the wagons? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/72074/2020-11-12/detailed

Kirow 125 tonne crane.

 

[palmersears]

Well, maybe. Rather delayed in departing!

EDIT: Just departed as I typed the above!

Just seen it through New Mills Central, 66518 plus seven tanks, so rather shorter than the usual load. I assume this is to compliment the shortened rake from the front of the derailed train that made it yesterday, thus making a full rake back together at Dewsbury to allow for full capacity to be delivered again.

 

[Jamesrob637]

If you have to travel from Manchester to Sheffield, don't do it around 1pm for now.

There is no 18 past TPE, nor is there a 44 past EMR for that hour only. No fast train between 12:45 and 14:15. Plus the 13:49 stopper is AFAIK only booked 2-car! Shocking.

Appreciate this isn't connected to (pardon the pun) the derailment but it's a useful piece of advice for travel that way in general.

 

[Spartacus]

Plus the 13:49 stopper is AFAIK only booked 2-car! Shocking.

Northern are short of quite a few units due to them being blocked in platforms and sidings at Sheffield, it's actually proving a struggle to provide units for the planned service at all.

 

[ainsworth74]

A reminder that it's best if people avoid speculating too much about causes or what happened or why it happened until their is some official statements. Discussing the clean up and response is fine but I do have to ask that we move on from the reasons behind the incident itself.

Thanks

 

[Sunset route]

Whilst keeping checking the Sheffield live train map on traksy after the derailment there are some odd codes showing at the platforms. What does T3, Poss, Unit and Ne2u mean please? Thanks.

What signallers interpose into the train describer berths are personally reminders to them. Having said that some are quite universal T3=rule book section T3 (total engineers possession of the line), Poss = Possession, unit = a multi unit train ie a powered passenger train without a separate engine.

 

[TC60054]

As mentioned above current situation looks to be platforms 2C, 5, 6, 7 and 8 available.
Platforms 2C, 5 and 7 in use for southbound reversals (Norwich - Liverpool, Hope Valley stoppers, London)
Platform 6 in use for southbound through trains
Platform 8 in use for northbound through trains.
Lincoln services reinstated reversing north in platform 8 with a retimed northbound departure to remove the booked fifty odd minute wait.

 

[ALEMASTER]

Leeds-Nottingham appears to have been withdrawn in favour of Sheffield-Lincoln today.

 

[merry]

Leeds-Nottingham appears to have been withdrawn in favour of Sheffield-Lincoln today.

Makes some sense now Xcountry is running. There are alternative services to most of the Leeds-Nottingham, not so much for Sheffield-Lincoln.

 

[Tomnick]

66534 running as 6Z99 with a crane to upright the derailed wagons.

Not 1Z99 (as it should be) then?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A VSTP has gone in for today for a Hope (Earles Sidings) to Dewsbury Cement to run the other way along the Hope Valley, then via Huddersfield:

Realtime Trains - 661I 1043 Hope (Earles Sidings) Fhh to Dewsbury Blue Circle

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

A shame it has to make such a large detour, but the obvious alternative (via Penistone) probably isn't signed by many, if any, freight drivers. Then there's the problem of the 10mph non-MU PSR on the viaduct outside Huddersfield, and needing P4 to be empty to access the down side from Lockwood beyond HUD.

Would have been nice to have a rare photo of a freight on Denby Dale viaduct though!

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Not 1Z99 (as it should be) then?

Not according to Railcam (not the be all and end all I know!). I think the fact there was a crane in tow might mean it ran as a ‘6’ rather than a ‘1’?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Whilst 1Z99 can be used in connection with line clearance it is really only necessary if there is great urgency. There may well be reasons why breakdown recovery is not going to take place 'immediately', in which case Class 6 can describe a 60mph move perfectly adequately.

 

[1D53]

If you have to travel from Manchester to Sheffield, don't do it around 1pm for now.

There is no 18 past TPE, nor is there a 44 past EMR for that hour only. No fast train between 12:45 and 14:15. Plus the 13:49 stopper is AFAIK only booked 2-car! Shocking.

Appreciate this isn't connected to (pardon the pun) the derailment but it's a useful piece of advice for travel that way in general.

The Stoppers can only use 2C at Sheffield at the minute due to needing to keep 7 free for other trains. 2C of course can only fit two cars...

 

[TC60054]

A shame it has to make such a large detour, but the obvious alternative (via Penistone) probably isn't signed by many, if any, freight drivers. Then there's the problem of the 10mph non-MU PSR on the viaduct outside Huddersfield, and needing P4 to be empty to access the down side from Lockwood beyond HUD.

Would have been nice to have a rare photo of a freight on Denby Dale viaduct though!

Why would it go via Penistone?

Remember it's making this route via Stalybridge and Huddersfield to avoid Sheffield - going via Penistone would still include travelling through Sheffield.

 

[Killingworth]

Had a look this afternoon. Crane arrived, cement pumped out of fallen wagon. Several wagons behind the faller clearly stopped very sharply and are concertinered up together and have jumped the track.

Points certainly look suspect! The actual track that I could see wasn't in as bad a condition as I recalled - but that wasn't where the problem occurred!

 

[yorksrob]

Shame the Sheffield Tap isn't open. Would have been some interesting views going on outside !

 

[Killingworth]

The Stoppers can only use 2C at Sheffield at the minute due to needing to keep 7 free for other trains. 2C of course can only fit two cars...

Some are going into 7 but all are 2 car today. The final 23.34 is 4 cars out of 8 from the final 195 service from Piccadilly and another 195 from Lincoln.

Once the derailed vehicles are recovered all platforms barring 1 northbound should be usable - which once again highlights the lack of capacity at that end of the station, both platforms and track.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why would it go via Penistone?

Remember it's making this route via Stalybridge and Huddersfield to avoid Sheffield - going via Penistone would still include travelling through Sheffield.

Of course, dumb moment from me! Wasn't certain that those vehicles couldn't go around the derailment, but if they could they'd just go by the booked route anyway to avoid a reversal to access the Dewsbury site.

Tbh just wishful thinking that there'd be an interesting working to see during Lockdown II: Electric Boogaloo...

 

[TC60054]

Of course, dumb moment from me! Wasn't certain that those vehicles couldn't go around the derailment, but if they could they'd just go by the booked route anyway to avoid a reversal to access the Dewsbury site.

Tbh just wishful thinking that there'd be an interesting working to see during Lockdown II: Electric Boogaloo...

I suspect it's less that they can't run around it, more to do with the very limited capacity through the station with only two through platforms in use (and I think everything northbound has to be talked past the signal on platform 8 anyway).