Long term restrictions, lockdowns, etc and the implications on mental health

[C J Snarzell]

Interesting to see that since the national lockdown was announced and implemented, the "No I'm absolutely fine!" vote is actually increasing. At the start of the week it was 18%, yet it's now at 21%!

I wonder what the percentage will be on the 30th November? Can't see it being higher than now!

CJ

 

[greyman42]

Interesting to see that since the national lockdown was announced and implemented, the "No I'm absolutely fine!" vote is actually increasing. At the start of the week it was 18%, yet it's now at 21%!

Well, as Freightmaster said in post 63, i would love to know their secret.

 

[MikeWM]

Interesting to see that since the national lockdown was announced and implemented, the "No I'm absolutely fine!" vote is actually increasing. At the start of the week it was 18%, yet it's now at 21%!

I wonder if the element of certainty is helping some people a bit. Yes, it is a very rubbish time to be going through, but at least now we don't have to anticipate or debate what changes may be announced in the next week or two, or whether they are justified or not, or how they will affect us or not. For the first time in months, we know what to expect for the next few weeks.

Constant unpredictability is one of the key weapons in psychological warfare, precisely because it is difficult for most people to deal with.

 

[Domh245]

I think that to some extent it's the certainty that can help. In the run up to lockdown being announced, there was a lot of speculation about if it'd happen, and to what extent, etc. Knowing what we're doing up to the 2nd December will have reduced anxiety and so some people will feel better as a result. It'll dip again in the run up to the end of lockdown but once there's clarity, I'd expect to see people's mental health improve again (though possibly not given other impending changes..)

 

[35B]

If you lived in a city in the north of England you may well consider it reasonable to travel to the Yorkshire Dales for some outdoor recreation/exercise and to help your mental wellbeing. I would see no problem in such a journey

It might depend on which city, and how the chosen means of transport related to the individual's circumstances.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2020 ==

Well, as Freightmaster said in post 63, i would love to know their secret.

I've commented elsewhere on selection bias. Perhaps there are some shy "I'm ok'ers" on here, whose voices aren't particularly heard?

I think that to some extent it's the certainty that can help. In the run up to lockdown being announced, there was a lot of speculation about if it'd happen, and to what extent, etc. Knowing what we're doing up to the 2nd December will have reduced anxiety and so some people will feel better as a result. It'll dip again in the run up to the end of lockdown but once there's clarity, I'd expect to see people's mental health improve again (though possibly not given other impending changes..)

That is also very plausible.

 

[Class 33]

I will openly admit I'm already feeling a bit fed and sorry for myself. Like other forum members have said - the first lockdown didn't feel too bad as we had nice warm dry weather and the clocks went forward the weekend after Boris made his big announcement on the 23rd March.

There was also optimism during the original lockdown that the virus was a 'blip' and the country could be back to normal by September/end of Summer.

Unfortunately, there is no optimism now because I'm feeling that this mess is never going to end. The Chancellor's announcement that furlough is being extended until March 2021, just feels like an indication the potential of a third lockdown before the Spring is a real possibility because the government have already put 'buffers' in place to protect the economy and jobs.

One of the things that unsettled me was reading about the Spanish Flu. That lasted two years from 1918 to 1920 and involved four waves.

I'm starting to make comparisons that if this is a second wave of Covid19 and there are two more to come, could we still be living like this by the Spring of 2022?

CJ

Yes in the first lockdown, many people thought the lockdown and all these restrictions(including the dreaded social distancing) would only last up to a few months, or maybe just slightly longer. Even Johnson himself said to us all "We can be out of this in 12 weeks" back on 23rd March!

And here we are 7 months later back in a full national lockdown yet with the slogan "Stay at Home. Protect the NHS. Save Lives." again! Though it's not quite as severe as the first lockdown, there is a definite feeling that we're near enough resetting back to the lockdown of 23rd March again.

The chancellors announcement that furlough is now being extended until March 2021. Yes I too get the impression from that, that the government will either extend this national lockdown on 3rd December until godknows when, or that there could well be another national lockdown or two yet again in January and/or February.

I think though that whatever happens, even if this second wave is defeated(or near enough defeated anyway) by about February, that they are still going to drag this social distancing and face mask wearing guidelines/laws out until the end of March.

But I am reasonably(about 70%) confident and hopeful that come the 31st March, that whatever the situation is with Coronavirus by then, that the government really are going to have to finally drop all these lockdowns/tiered system restrictions, social distancing and face mask guidelines/laws on that day, so come 1st April onwards we can finally get on with our lives properly and start mending the severely damaged economy. God fordbid if this drags on beyond the end on March 2021 and what it will do to this country. It's done enough damage as it is. We just can't go on like this for potentially years and years or even indefinitely! Twelve months of all these lockdown and restrictive and hassly restrictions is more than long enough.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Yes in the first lockdown, many people thought the lockdown and all these restrictions(including the dreaded social distancing) would only last up to a few months, or maybe just slightly longer. Even Johnson himself said to us all "We can be out of this in 12 weeks" back on 23rd March!

And here we are 7 months later back in a full national lockdown yet with the slogan "Stay at Home. Protect the NHS. Save Lives." again! Though it's not quite as severe as the first lockdown, there is a definite feeling that we're near enough resetting back to the lockdown of 23rd March again.

The chancellors announcement that furlough is now being extended until March 2021. Yes I too get the impression from that, that the government will either extend this national lockdown on 3rd December until godknows when, or that there could well be another national lockdown or two yet again in January and/or February.

I think though that whatever happens, even if this second wave is defeated(or near enough defeated anyway) by about February, that they are still going to drag this social distancing and face mask wearing guidelines/laws out until the end of March.

But I am reasonably(about 70%) confident and hopeful that come the 31st March, that whatever the situation is with Coronavirus by then, that the government really are going to have to finally drop all these lockdowns/tiered system restrictions, social distancing and face mask guidelines/laws on that day, so come 1st April onwards we can finally get on with our lives properly and start mending the severely damaged economy. God fordbid if this drags on beyond the end on March 2021 and what it will do to this country. It's done enough damage as it is. We just can't go on like this for potentially years and years or even indefinitely! Twelve months of all these lockdown and restrictive and hassly restrictions is more than long enough.

Good post.

I am a little sceptical now that social distancing and face masks will go by the end of March 2021.

If anything we will see them in place for the long haul. I have a horrible feeling that much of next summer will involve queuing up outside shops, banks, etc and wearing the dam awful face coverings (another summer of discontent).

A lot of businesses have invested in screens and floor markings and I very much doubt these will be taken down over night.

The way I see it - even by some miracle this rechid virus disappears next year, alot of measures and restrictions have simply been 'ingrained' in our society and most places will probably retain their new procedures for sometime to come.

I can just imagine that in 2030, I'll be doing a shop somewhere and see a floor circle or screen around a till. Many Covid fixtures & fittings will remain in place until some places get redecorated or refurbished.

I would be happy just to be allowed to go back to the freedom of going to a pop concert, staying out late and ending up in a nightclub or simply having a gym work out then using the sauna. Sadly these pleasures and luxuries seem to be a long way away yet, which makes this whole situation that bit harder.

CJ

 

[Class 33]

Good post.

I am a little sceptical now that social distancing and face masks will go by the end of March 2021.

If anything we will see them in place for the long haul. I have a horrible feeling that much of next summer will involve queuing up outside shops, banks, etc and wearing the dam awful face coverings (another summer of discontent).

I would be happy just to be allowed to go back to the freedom of going to a pop concert, staying out late and ending up in a nightclub or simply having a gym work out then using the sauna. Sadly these pleasures and luxuries seem to be a long way away yet, which makes this whole situation that bit harder.

CJ

Well with respect, I(and indeed millions of people in the UK) very much hope you're wrong that social distancing and face masks drags will drag on way beyond the end of March 2021.

This probably wasn't mentioned much in the news. But the culture secretary Oliver Dowden recently mentioned he is *aiming* to allow theatres to reopen fully without social distancing from April 2021. This gives some hope that social distancing will finally be scrapped by April 2021. But we'll have to see if that turns out to be true. But in the meantime Andrew Lloyd Webber said recently that if theatres aren't allowed to reopen without social distancing by November, then the whole theatre industry is going to completely collapse! So there may not even be even any theatres surviving by April 2021.

If social distancing continues into next summer, it's going to kill off next year's summer festival season again. I was hoping to goto a festival or two this year, but that didn't happen due to all this. Am hoping I(and indeed thousands of other people) will be able to next year. If social distancing is still going, then it won't happen as festivals and social distancing just don't work together.

I too am missing not being able to enjoy using a spa. They're now all closed..... again! But even when they recently reopened and whenever they reopen again, due to all these social distancing restrictions, it's not very practical to do so. As a number of gyms are restricting usage to members only, and the gyms/spas that do allow non-members there are restrictions such as having to pre-book and only usually just 1 hour timeslots permitted, making it hardly worth it really.

All this social distancing, face mask wearing, etc, etc is taking away all the good things in life.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Class33

I really hope you are right - I don't want to sound all doom & gloom but it's hard to be positive about all this now after so long.

Oliver Dowden's comments sound optimistic but I remember good old Boris once mentioning November as the benchmark for 'normality' during one of his Downing Street press briefings in the summer. Yet here we are in November on full lockdown at a time of year when we normally start the run up to Christmas.

I also remember Boris saying during the original lockdown that this country cannot afford to go into a second lockdown, yet here we are again.

I know alot of events scheduled for 2021 have already been rescheduled or postponed. I believe the London Marathon is taking place in October instead of April. Hopefully, most will still go ahead but I cannot see a fully normal summer season of sporting events, concerts, ceremonies and fixtures until at least 2022.

CJ

 

[bengley]

My friend who does Yoga was telling me today that his Yoga studio is staying open despite the lockdown.

I'm actually pretty pleased about it, despite not being interested in Yoga myself.

We need more businesses and individuals to just refuse to comply with this nonsense. Forced normality.

 

[hst43102]

One of the things that unsettled me was reading about the Spanish Flu. That lasted two years from 1918 to 1920 and involved four waves.

I'm starting to make comparisons that if this is a second wave of Covid19 and there are two more to come, could we still be living like this by the Spring of 2022?

CJ

Back in 1918 they didn't have a lot of flights or travelling between countries. If this virus really is as bad as the Spanish Flu (Which, thankfully, it doesn't seem to be), we could be looking at 10+ waves, lasting well into the next decade.

On a more optimistic note, I don't think people are going to follow the rules if there is a third lockdown. We are all fed up of being told what to do and most people will just do what is best for themselves and their vulnerable family members - which we should have done all along!

 

[theblackwatch]

Well, as Freightmaster said in post 63, i would love to know their secret.

Posts 64, 74, and 84 may be of help...

 

[Richard Scott]

Well, as Freightmaster said in post 63, i would love to know their secret.

Unfortunately don't think there is a secret, it's down to who you are. I'm usually positive about most things and try to make best of everything but this has reduced that positivity to nil no matter how I look at it and even try and convince myself otherwise.

 

[david1212]

Yes in the first lockdown, many people thought the lockdown and all these restrictions(including the dreaded social distancing) would only last up to a few months, or maybe just slightly longer. Even Johnson himself said to us all "We can be out of this in 12 weeks" back on 23rd March!

And here we are 7 months later back in a full national lockdown yet with the slogan "Stay at Home. Protect the NHS. Save Lives." again! Though it's not quite as severe as the first lockdown, there is a definite feeling that we're near enough resetting back to the lockdown of 23rd March again.

The chancellors announcement that furlough is now being extended until March 2021. Yes I too get the impression from that, that the government will either extend this national lockdown on 3rd December until godknows when, or that there could well be another national lockdown or two yet again in January and/or February.

I think though that whatever happens, even if this second wave is defeated(or near enough defeated anyway) by about February, that they are still going to drag this social distancing and face mask wearing guidelines/laws out until the end of March.

But I am reasonably(about 70%) confident and hopeful that come the 31st March, that whatever the situation is with Coronavirus by then, that the government really are going to have to finally drop all these lockdowns/tiered system restrictions, social distancing and face mask guidelines/laws on that day, so come 1st April onwards we can finally get on with our lives properly and start mending the severely damaged economy. God fordbid if this drags on beyond the end on March 2021 and what it will do to this country. It's done enough damage as it is. We just can't go on like this for potentially years and years or even indefinitely! Twelve months of all these lockdown and restrictive and hassly restrictions is more than long enough.

Comparing now and March I agree that then most people expected to be back to a situation close to normal within 12 weeks. I commented that if most leisure and hospitality was not open even if some restrictions by the late May bank holiday these businesses and all who work in some way was connected with this would be struggling. Sadly the latter has prevailed.

Come 3rd December I'm expecting some relaxation not least retail and hospitality both for economics and national morale. Logically as it exists the tier system but nowhere in tier 3. If infections levels are so high that tier 3 is needed IMO this lockdown will have failed. Moving on into 2021 again I agree that the reason for the extended furlough scheme is the expectation to have to return to the current restrictions at some point. The positive part of this will be removing some of the financial worry until April.

I do hope you are right about April 2021 onwards and my rather more pessamistic expectation is wrong. If the daily infection and hospital admission rates are down to 10% or even 20% of now the objective will be to keep them there not see the rise that started in September compared to July then escalated to the current level. The regulations and guidelines to achieve this will be social distancing, face coverings etc unless some significant new scientific test results point to a different path. If there is a vaccine that will be a big step forward but for now I'm presuming not. The fewer the restrictions together with stability for those that remain the better it will be for mental health. Everyone needs to be able to plan holidays, days out and events with certainty not be worrying about ever changing regulations and guidelines.

 

[Crossover]

Oliver Dowden's comments sound optimistic but I remember good old Boris once mentioning November as the benchmark for 'normality' during one of his Downing Street press briefings in the summer.

Did he state which November, however?

I also remember Boris saying during the original lockdown that this country cannot afford to go into a second lockdown, yet here we are again.

Quite a few country leaders said the same. They look a little daft now IMO. Although some of my family suggest that it was done for morale rather than advising of a years worth of doom from April

 

[Bantamzen]

I will openly admit I'm already feeling a bit fed and sorry for myself. Like other forum members have said - the first lockdown didn't feel too bad as we had nice warm dry weather and the clocks went forward the weekend after Boris made his big announcement on the 23rd March.

There was also optimism during the original lockdown that the virus was a 'blip' and the country could be back to normal by September/end of Summer.

Unfortunately, there is no optimism now because I'm feeling that this mess is never going to end. The Chancellor's announcement that furlough is being extended until March 2021, just feels like an indication the potential of a third lockdown before the Spring is a real possibility because the government have already put 'buffers' in place to protect the economy and jobs.

One of the things that unsettled me was reading about the Spanish Flu. That lasted two years from 1918 to 1920 and involved four waves.

I'm starting to make comparisons that if this is a second wave of Covid19 and there are two more to come, could we still be living like this by the Spring of 2022?

CJ

In short, no we couldn't. The Spanish Flu happened at a time when the world was decimated by the war that should have ended all wars (it didn't). Medical services the world over were decimated, millions of people were dead, millions more wounded or ill. It was almost inevitable that any emerging virus would have such a devastating effect. So comparisons with today are at best deeply flawed.

One can only hope it's followed by another "roaring twenties" complete with boozy partying ! (we can miss out some of the bits afterwards though !)

Be careful what you wish for, in the US the 20s saw prohibition and the rise of organised gangsters.

 

[yorksrob]

Be careful what you wish for, in the US the 20s saw prohibition and the rise of organised gangsters.

The US can keep that this time as well.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Another devasting event that followed behind the Spanish Flu was the Wall Street crash of 1929 that affected the global economy for many years. I read that business people in New York were jumping off buildings like Lemmings.

CJ

 

[Yew]

Well with respect, I(and indeed millions of people in the UK) very much hope you're wrong that social distancing and face masks drags will drag on way beyond the end of March 2021.

This probably wasn't mentioned much in the news. But the culture secretary Oliver Dowden recently mentioned he is *aiming* to allow theatres to reopen fully without social distancing from April 2021. This gives some hope that social distancing will finally be scrapped by April 2021. But we'll have to see if that turns out to be true. But in the meantime Andrew Lloyd Webber said recently that if theatres aren't allowed to reopen without social distancing by November, then the whole theatre industry is going to completely collapse! So there may not even be even any theatres surviving by April 2021.

It always seems that the end is about 6 months away, and has for the last 6 months.

 

[35B]

The US can keep that this time as well.

You may want to check who you’re quoting. But @Bantamzen is right in suggesting that Prohibition helped drive organised crime.

 

[packermac]

It always seems that the end is about 6 months away, and has for the last 6 months.

I do not believe it will happen by then, but always 6 months away is better than Crossrail's always 18 months away.

 

[greyman42]

My secret? Realising that the savings from not travelling for a few weeks can fund bigger, better travel when it is allowed. For instance, in August this year I did an all line rover funded entirely from the trips I couldn't do between mid March and late June.

You could of done that at any time pre Covid.

 

[rcro]

I’ve not voted but would fall into the “absolutely fine” category if I did.

My mental isn’t “great” and various combinations of disorders make me susceptible to very negative thoughts for the most trifling of reasons. Perversely, the last 7 months have been the smoothest for me for nearly 10 years - just one real blip relating to forgetting to switch on the ipad charger of all things, and I was back out of it within a day. Being forced isolated means there are a lot less triggers.

The worst thing I can do is dwell on a negative situation (no matter how minor) - so went into the first lockdown determined to see it out and to make the best of the situation. There are many things I can’t do, so I try not to think about them; but there are many things I can do - and I make damn sure I do them! With the various restrictions of stay at home, stay in county, I’ve explored many nearby places of merit that I would never have thought of before - which is nice. I’m determined to get 10,000 steps per day and if that means putting on waterproofs or a thick coat, or walking in the dark then so be it. I wouldn’t do them by choice in normal times, but I do get some enjoyment out of them. Working from home now at least gives a bit of extra time in the day to do those things

Yes, I would like to see friends, and return to the forest and mountains where I “used” to spend my free time. But I can’t, and overly thinking about not being able to do that will bring me down - so I don’t. Fighting the restrictions ultimately will make no positive difference to my situation, so again I don’t. (There is a difference between accepting rules and agreeing with them!)

Mental health and wellbeing is often ignored and when it goes it can floor people when they least expect it. I sympathise with everybody who is suffering at the moment, but without wishing to sound flippant it gets easier with time. Ultimately life must go on. A mental “problem” requires a mental “solution” - you can find coping mechanisms to live with it.

Before anyone wishes to assume a super-privileged lifestyle, I’m a long way off retirement, live in a flat on my own with no private garden, and well away from family, colleagues and most friends. I do at least have a job that is safe-for-now and have supportive colleagues!

 

[DB]

but without wishing to sound flippant it gets easier with time.

Simply not true for many - the longer it goes on, the more it grinds people down.

 

[Richard Scott]

Simply not true for many - the longer it goes on, the more it grinds people down.

Agree, nothing to look forward to bar more of the same and doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

 

[Yew]

. A mental “problem” requires a mental “solution” - you can find coping mechanisms to live with it.

The issue is that this isn't a mental problem, it's a government enacting psychological abuse on it's own citizens in the name of an unachievable goal. It's like radiation poisioning, it requires medical treatment, but the solution is to stop living in the radiation exclusion zone.

 

[yorksrob]

You may want to check who you’re quoting. But @Bantamzen is right in suggesting that Prohibition helped drive organised crime.

I expect it's some bug of the forum that has misquoted, but I can assure you that I wasn't hoping for US style prohibition. Quite the opposite, infact.

 

[MDB1images]

I’ve not voted but would fall into the “absolutely fine” category if I did.

My mental isn’t “great” and various combinations of disorders make me susceptible to very negative thoughts for the most trifling of reasons. Perversely, the last 7 months have been the smoothest for me for nearly 10 years - just one real blip relating to forgetting to switch on the ipad charger of all things, and I was back out of it within a day. Being forced isolated means there are a lot less triggers.

The worst thing I can do is dwell on a negative situation (no matter how minor) - so went into the first lockdown determined to see it out and to make the best of the situation. There are many things I can’t do, so I try not to think about them; but there are many things I can do - and I make damn sure I do them! With the various restrictions of stay at home, stay in county, I’ve explored many nearby places of merit that I would never have thought of before - which is nice. I’m determined to get 10,000 steps per day and if that means putting on waterproofs or a thick coat, or walking in the dark then so be it. I wouldn’t do them by choice in normal times, but I do get some enjoyment out of them. Working from home now at least gives a bit of extra time in the day to do those things

Yes, I would like to see friends, and return to the forest and mountains where I “used” to spend my free time. But I can’t, and overly thinking about not being able to do that will bring me down - so I don’t. Fighting the restrictions ultimately will make no positive difference to my situation, so again I don’t. (There is a difference between accepting rules and agreeing with them!)

Mental health and wellbeing is often ignored and when it goes it can floor people when they least expect it. I sympathise with everybody who is suffering at the moment, but without wishing to sound flippant it gets easier with time. Ultimately life must go on. A mental “problem” requires a mental “solution” - you can find coping mechanisms to live with it.

Before anyone wishes to assume a super-privileged lifestyle, I’m a long way off retirement, live in a flat on my own with no private garden, and well away from family, colleagues and most friends. I do at least have a job that is safe-for-now and have supportive colleagues!

A very well written and inspiring piece.

 

[35B]

I expect it's some bug of the forum that has misquoted, but I can assure you that I wasn't hoping for US style prohibition. Quite the opposite, infact.

I’m not surprised. And I agree that a repeat of the “roaring twenties” would also risk a repeat of the “dark valley”; an era with as much wrong as right.

 

[yorksrob]

I’m not surprised. And I agree that a repeat of the “roaring twenties” would also risk a repeat of the “dark valley”; an era with as much wrong as right.

I'm sorry. I'm not aware of an era called the "dark valley". You'll have to enlighten me.