Lockdown in England from Thursday 5 November until Wednesday 2 December

[Mojo]

Baked Beans will henceforth be found alongside the trosuers and jumpers

Aldi's and Lidl's will be having the last laugh as they already are

 

[Crossover]

Aldi's and Lidl's will be having the last laugh as they already are

It's a bit of a nonsense anyway - in England, the non-essential retailers can offer a click and collect service anyway (I presume this has been enacted - I haven't read the legislation myself yet) so they're not as disadvantaged as in Wales. To start moving the goalposts for supermarkets etc is essentially just more red tape and confusion IMO

 

[Scotrail12]

Not a single Labour MP voted against this deadly lockdown. That party will never get a vote from me ever again.

Kudos to the small number of MPs who voted against.

 

[kristiang85]

Not a single Labour MP voted against this deadly lockdown. That party will never get a vote from me ever again.

Kudos to the small number of MPs who voted against.

Yep. They call themselves the party of the workers and the young, but they've just condemned huge swathes of those voters to probable unemployment and long term mental health challenges.

All for the section of the population that would most likely vote Tory.

 

[35B]

Not sure if this is best here, or in the Supermarkets thread, but somehow missed this article from The Grocer yesterday

English supermarkets told to cordon off areas of non-essential goods

The Grocer understands the UK government has told retailers it will not go as far as the Welsh ban

www.thegrocer.co.uk

Hopefully this isn't true, but I do remember many shops last time closing off sections, albeit for a very short initial period.

Reading the draft regulations, I think the regulations have been drafted to avoid that possibility for aisles within a supermarket - there's some careful cross-reading required to check, but it looks very much (NB - IANAL applies) as though if the store is of a type listed as being allowed to remain open, then it isn't stopped from selling those other goods.

 

[adc82140]

It's probably referring to "concession" type arrangements, rather than specific aisles, in particular restricting Argos in Sainsbury's to click & collect only.

 

[telstarbox]

Not a single Labour MP voted against this deadly lockdown. That party will never get a vote from me ever again.

Kudos to the small number of MPs who voted against.

It appears Labour are in tune with the public on this matter.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1323408367143014400?s=20

 

[HSTEd]

It appears Labour are in tune with the public on this matter.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1323408367143014400?s=20

Yes, because the public believe that disagreeing with the lockdown in any way will see them decried as wanting to murder granny.

 

[yorksrob]

It appears Labour are in tune with the public on this matter.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1323408367143014400?s=20

What a country of imbeciles we truly are.

 

[telstarbox]

Or maybe you're just out of touch? I look forward to voting for the Compartments in Slammers Party in 2024

 

[yorksrob]

Or maybe you're just out of touch? I look forward to voting for the Compartments in Slammers Party in 2024

I'm glad I'm out of touch, quite frankly.

 

[bengley]

Did they survey a group of users from mumsnet or something?

I have not spoken to one person in the last 3 months who supports lockdown measures. Not one.

I know one person who probably does support it but we haven't spoken about it as a topic because he's always at home hiding behind the sofa.

 

[philosopher]

What a country of imbeciles we truly are.

I am skeptical support for lockdown is as high as this poll claims. I reckon a lot of people who say they support a lockdown in polls are only saying so because saying you do not support one could be perceived unfavourably.

Comments on various news websites suggests opinion is more evenly split.

 

[bramling]

I am skeptical support for lockdown is as high as this poll claims. I reckon a lot of people who say they support a lockdown in polls are only saying so because saying you do not support one could be perceived unfavourably.

Comments on various news websites suggests opinion is more evenly split.

Yes it seems a bit suspect to me.

What we see over the next days and weeks will tell its own story. If people are genuinely so supportive then we should see empty streets similar to what we saw in April, and I bet we’re not going to see that.

 

[yorksrob]

I am skeptical support for lockdown is as high as this poll claims. I reckon a lot of people who say they support a lockdown in polls are only saying so because saying you do not support one could be perceived unfavourably.

Comments on various news websites suggests opinion is more evenly split.

I was undoubtedly being harsh. I'm just quite disillusioned that people seem to be prepared put up with this farce without end.

 

[Scotrail12]

Polls are a load of rubbish - they are never truly representative of the population. If you go to Simon Dolan's page and they are all anti-lockdown, that tells us nothing, it's just the opinion of those who follow him. Similarly, those who follow the likes of Devi Sridhar or any of these pro lockdown (nutters), you're obviously going to have higher numbers of people who agree.

There are too many variables to take into account for any random poll to be accurate unless you survey every type of person.

There's also a 'silent voter' effect - people are scared to say that they're anti-lockdown because they'll be viewed as 'granny killers' and whatever else. It's like people who were too scared to admit in polls that they'd vote for Boris, Brexit, Trump etc but voted them anyway when the time came.

 

[35B]

Did they survey a group of users from mumsnet or something?

I have not spoken to one person in the last 3 months who supports lockdown measures. Not one.

I know one person who probably does support it but we haven't spoken about it as a topic because he's always at home hiding behind the sofa.

Don't you think that says something about how representative your sample is? If you don't talk to the one person you know who you suspect is pro-lockdown, isn't your sample going to be skewed?

Polls are a load of rubbish - they are never truly representative of the population. If you go to Simon Dolan's page and they are all anti-lockdown, that tells us nothing, it's just the opinion of those who follow him. Similarly, those who follow the likes of Devi Sridhar or any of these pro lockdown (nutters), you're obviously going to have higher numbers of people who agree.

There are too many variables to take into account for any random poll to be accurate unless you survey every type of person.

And it's that sampling which is precisely what the pollsters do; it's when they try to apply that into specific pockets and work out how that will play into voting behaviour that it gets a lot trickier. Taking that YouGov poll (and I've only looked at the headline), I've no idea whether the pro lockdown share of the population is 72%, or how pro they are, but I'm willing to bet that there are about 3 people in favour for every 1 person against when averaged across the whole country.

 

[jtuk]

Don't you think that says something about how representative your sample is? If you don't talk to the one person you know who you suspect is pro-lockdown, isn't your sample going to be skewed?

And it's that sampling which is precisely what the pollsters do; it's when they try to apply that into specific pockets and work out how that will play into voting behaviour that it gets a lot trickier. Taking that YouGov poll (and I've only looked at the headline), I've no idea whether the pro lockdown share of the population is 72%, or how pro they are, but I'm willing to bet that there are about 3 people in favour for every 1 person against when averaged across the whole country.

All depends on the question you ask really. If you ask someone if they want to prevent 4000 "Covid deaths" a day, they'd probably say yes. If you ask someone if you want to lock down the country with the intent of saving lives from Covid but by the way it'll likely cost more lives from other causes and by the way you've lost your job as a result, then they may not give the same answer

 

[adc82140]

The SNP and Plaid Cymru abstained. So did some Scottish tories. And so they should have done. I'd like to hear why some Welsh Labour MPs, Scottish Lib Dems and the rest of the Scottish tories decided that voting in favour of an English lockdown thought they had any right to do so.

 

[35B]

All depends on the question you ask really. If you ask someone if they want to prevent 4000 "Covid deaths" a day, they'd probably say yes. If you ask someone if you want to lock down the country with the intent of saving lives from Covid but by the way it'll likely cost more lives from other causes and by the way you've lost your job as a result, then they may not give the same answer

As with all polls! But checking the poll, respondents were asked a reasonably open question:

Boris Johnson has announced a four week national lockdown for England from Thursday where people will have to stay at home except from shopping for food and essential goods; outdoor exercise; medical reasons; providing care for vulnerable people; work for those who cannot work from home; and education. Non-essential shops, pubs and restaurants will close but schools and universities will remain open. Do you support or oppose this four week national lockdown for England?

I think we can take that as a reasonable indication of baseline opinion.

 

[bramling]

I was undoubtedly being harsh. I'm just quite disillusioned that people seem to be prepared put up with this farce without end.

Some people are actively relishing it. At my place for example we have the shielders who not content with having had six months off, are now on reduced hours and only carrying out a fraction of their workload - why on earth this might be the case is beyond anyone. As if that’s not enough, we have one who won’t do a substantial proportion of his normal work on safety grounds, but sneakily volunteered for an overtime shift which involved being somewhere which is normally “too unsafe” for him to be.

For as long as these attitudes are tolerated or encouraged I don’t think we’re going to make much progress.

 

[35B]

The SNP and Plaid Cymru abstained. So did some Scottish tories. And so they should have done. I'd like to hear why some Welsh Labour MPs, Scottish Lib Dems and the rest of the Scottish tories decided that voting in favour of an English lockdown thought they had any right to do so.

Because English votes for English laws isn't nearly well established enough in Parliamentary behaviour. But that question is a much wider one than just this debate and vote.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Many of my colleagues were supportive of lockdown, the first time around. They are mainly from London boroughs that had the highest number of cases in the first wave.
I'd say from the comments yelled at the TV in our rest-room, at least half of those people are now at the least, questioning government strategy (or lack thereof), or outright opposed to another lockdown. The latter group are seriously worried about job prospects for their grown-up kids currently at university, and the job market generally. (I edited to add that my workplace is very multi-cultural and a mix of age groups and sexes)

 

[yorksrob]

Some people are actively relishing it. At my place for example we have the shielders who not content with having had six months off, are now on reduced hours and only carrying out a fraction of their workload - why on earth this might be the case is beyond anyone. As if that’s not enough, we have one who won’t do a substantial proportion of his normal work on safety grounds, but sneakily volunteered for an overtime shift which involved being somewhere which is normally “too unsafe” for him to be.

For as long as these attitudes are tolerated or encouraged I don’t think we’re going to make much progress.

To be honest, I have no problem with people who need to shield, shielding. There ought to be some early retirement options provided. It's just having seen and experienced the efforts that businesses have gone to, to reduce risks and play by the ever changing rules, I find it depressing for them to be thrown to the wolves.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Some people are actively relishing it. At my place for example we have the shielders who not content with having had six months off, are now on reduced hours and only carrying out a fraction of their workload - why on earth this might be the case is beyond anyone. As if that’s not enough, we have one who won’t do a substantial proportion of his normal work on safety grounds, but sneakily volunteered for an overtime shift which involved being somewhere which is normally “too unsafe” for him to be.

For as long as these attitudes are tolerated or encouraged I don’t think we’re going to make much progress.

Good god, we had the same thing with somebody at my place of work. Always banging on about social distancing, yet has never worn a mask and has done overtime on many occasions!

 

[Richard Scott]

Don't you think that says something about how representative your sample is? If you don't talk to the one person you know who you suspect is pro-lockdown, isn't your sample going to be skewed?

I haven't come across anyone who agrees either and I work with people from differing political views and many different age groups. People at work quite happy to disagree with my views do would soon know if they disagreed.

 

[bramling]

To be honest, I have no problem with people who need to shield, shielding. There ought to be some early retirement options provided. It's just having seen and experienced the efforts that businesses have gone to, to reduce risks, I find it depressing for them to be thrown to the wolves.

I don’t object either, providing they don’t take the proverbial, which is what’s been happening in some (not all) cases.

It’s even more unpalatable when there are nefarious motives behind calling for restrictions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2020 ==

Good god, we had the same thing with somebody at my place of work. Always banging on about social distancing, yet has never worn a mask and has done overtime on many occasions!

We had another one who went off shielding first time round, but finished a week of overtime first!

 

[WestRiding]

People are only so supporting of Lockdown while ever Free Wages (Furlough) is being thrown at them. When the money dries up, and people lose their jobs, attitudes will be different.

 

[35B]

I haven't come across anyone who agrees either and I work with people from differing political views and many different age groups. People at work quite happy to disagree with my views do would soon know if they disagreed.

In which case your sample is less skewed - but I stand by my view that "people I've met" is usually a distorted view of the population at large.

 

[Ianno87]

In which case your sample is less skewed - but I stand by my view that "people I've met" is usually a distorted view of the population at large.

"People I've met" usually means "People I've met and am comfortable speaking to them about their views on a contentious subject because they are likely to agree with me"