But the ticket isn't booked with XC, its booked with EMT.
By that logic, you'd never leave Leeds! (unless you booked on one of the few direct EMT services)
I'm still a little uncertain as to whether TOCs are potentially loosing out;
If you define 'losing out' as a customer using a particular TOC but that TOC not getting much money from it, that happens on all sorts of tickets, and that's just the way it is!
I don't think EMT get much, if any, from York to London ticket sales, yet I can go via Sheffield. I don't think NXEA get much, if any, either yet I can go via Audley End.
I'll clarify my question:
To take the OP's example (as I understand it):
The OP has a ticket Leeds-London, EMT+Connections.
Booking TOC gets ~9% of the revenue.
The OP is booked onto the Sheffield-London train, with EMT. For whatever proportion of the journey this is, EMT receives revenue.
So far so clear.
Yes.
This leaves the remaining proportion of the ticket cost (Leeds-Sheffield) to the +connections. Let's imagine two circumstances:
1. The situation which the OP presents: he/she is not booked onto any train between Leeds and Sheffield because the suggested schedule is with Northern, who do not reserve seats. As such, the OP can travel on any train between Leeds and Sheffield. In this case, is the +connections proportion a. given to Northern; b. shared proportionally between all the TOCs who could provide the train service between Leeds and Sheffield, according to ORCATS?
I believe it's the latter, but we don't
know the answer to this, and we don't need to know. Revenue allocation does not determine validity.
2. The OP is booked onto an XC train from Leeds to Sheffield. This booking is the +connections part of the ticket. In this case, the OP must take the booked train only, as XC do reservations and if an advance comes with a reservation, you must take it.
That's debatable
.
Here, then, is the +connections proportion a. given to XC; b. shared proportionally between all the TOCs who could provide the train service between Leeds and Sheffield, according to ORCATS?
We don't know the answer to this, but we don't need to as revenue allocation is not relevant to the passenger.
Given 1a, then surely XC would lose out by transporting a customer whose revenue goes to Northern rail?
I could give an infinite number of examples where a TOC 'loses out'.
Given 1b, Northern are loosing out by not offering reservations,
There's nothing to prevent them issuing reservations. They choose not to.
unless 2b is true (that is, +connections are always split according to ORCATS); in which case the customer would be getting a bad deal by being restricted to a single train.
Well, the fact that some people believe that a 'connections' ticket is restricted to the specific train on an '& connections' ticket is enough to make me ensure that my tickets do not specify a particular train, whenever practicable. This is achieved by specifying 'via' (or, occasionally, 'avoid') locations on ticket booking engines. (Note: you can't simply specify a station where the train stops, it has to be a station that is also
not a timing point for the train(s) you wish to avoid)
I hope that's clearer? In this case the proportions are low but we have elsewhere come across situations where the +connections leg forms the majority of the route.
Yes, I understand what you are saying, but revenue allocation doesn't actually determine validity, and TOCs do 'lose out' sometimes. If any railway staff use revenue allocation as an excuse to not to accept a ticket, they are not giving the real reason, and they may in fact be wrong.
For example, EC probably receive none, or very little, from a Huntingdon - London season ticket. If the holder of such a ticket decides to go from work, straight to Peterborough for a meal in the evening before returning home to Huntingdon, they buy a Huntingdon to Peterborough day return, for which EC receive no revenue. EC are compelled to convey the passenger on a non-stop London to Peterborough train, regardless of the revenue allocation. If a guard then said "but we get no revenue from this ticket, I am not going to accept it" they are just showing themselves up as making up their own rules and being un-knowledgeable.
