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Lockdown in England from Thursday 5 November until Wednesday 2 December

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brad465

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Likewise with the ridiculous #CloseSchoolsNow trending; it's a mixture of absolute idiots wanting to shut schools, and people rightly opposing it.

Neither side is going to back down. Society is as divided as it's ever been. However the tide is very much turning and more and more people are seeing sense.

I feel so angry at what's happening; if people want to fall out with me over this issue, they're not worth bothering about. I'm absolutely fuming.
The thing that concerns me most about the division aspect is all the attacks/blaming of those not complying as being wholly responsible for the mess: yes they maybe causing increased spread, but nowhere near as much as the reopening of education facilities, Eat out to Help out (it turns out) and returning to work for those who have so far has. If this blame game continues when mass job losses come along with the sunken economy, this will get messy.
 
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Scotrail12

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I think it's just given more power to the morons on social media, these people were nutcases beforehand anyway. There is some division for sure but I doubt nearly as much as the average Twitter searches would have us believe.

Moderator note: Reform UK discussion moved to: Brexit Party to be reformed as Reform UK
 
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trebor79

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The body language on yesterday’s performance was interesting. All three of them came over as nervous and flustered.
Probably partially because they were bounced into doing the thing several days before they had planned to.
It was really bad. Vallance saying "R is increasing" whilst the chart on screen showed it's actually falling. Whitty saying "the virus is growing in all regions" whilst several charts were on screen showing that case numbers are falling in several, flat in others and rising in a couple.

What I can't understand is why they rushed to do the presser after the leak. They could have just released a statement saying that the cabinet were considering the latest data/scenarios and a statement will be made to the house on Monday.
There's clearly a lot going on behind the scenes.
 

yorkie

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The thing that concerns me most about the division aspect is all the attacks/blaming of those not complying as being wholly responsible for the mess: yes they maybe causing increased spread, but nowhere near as much as the reopening of education facilities, Eat out to Help out (it turns out) and returning to work for those who have so far has. If this blame game continues when mass job losses come along with the sunken economy, this will get messy.
Education has to be open though, there is no alternative.
Fact is, the virus is going to continue to spread.
Eat out to Help out hasn't caused this as we are hardly unique in seeing an increase in cases this winter; it's a seasonal respiratory virus for goodness sake!
And yes the ridiculous blame game will continue, and things will get messy.
 

brad465

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I think it's just given more power to the morons on social media, these people were nutcases beforehand anyway. There is some division for sure but I doubt nearly as much as the average Twitter searches would have us believe.
I think the power they've somehow gained can be put more down to the incompetence of the current Government not being able to think for itself than to the social media folk alone; had they been more competent I think they'd have been able to resist it better. That said I'd also like to know what was going on in Italy in terms of what their social and mainstream media were reporting before lockdown, given they were the first.
 

bramling

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The thing that concerns me most about the division aspect is all the attacks/blaming of those not complying as being wholly responsible for the mess: yes they maybe causing increased spread, but nowhere near as much as the reopening of education facilities, Eat out to Help out (it turns out) and returning to work for those who have so far has. If this blame game continues when mass job losses come along with the sunken economy, this will get messy.

Absolutely. And of course it suits the government for people to be going round blaming each other, especially as there’s been some reports that Eat Out To Help Out likely caused quite a bit of spread.
 

yorkie

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I suggest you have a look at Sam Coates' Twitter feed - he seems privy to a lot of behind the scenes stuff at U-turn Downing Street and there's definitely a storm brewing in there at the moment.
Interesting stuff

Sky News @ Ten Why the Tory revolt over lockdown 2.0 matters
...what they do see is a pattern of lockdown, spike...
..they don't see any reason why that isn't going to repeat itself...
...a vaccine ... is not going to get rid of coronavirus entirely...
...therefore they can see this going on possibly endlessly and they want to know, if that's the case, what do we do to save society/the economy...
Fingers crossed it doesn't go through.

That said, Labour seem pretty pro-lockdown, so many of their MPs could vote for it (and I'm ruling out voting for Labour as well, while they remain pro-lockdown)
 

DustyBin

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Well I really hope that by May that surely we would have seen the back of all these lockdown, social distancing, masking wearing, etc finally over and life is finally back to normal or near enough normal anyway. I'm thinking that it probably won't be until 1st April until this is the case. God forbid if all this drags on way beyond the end of March 2021, what with the catastrophic damage it has(and continuing to do so as the weeks go on) done to the economy, people's livelihoods and mental health. We just can not continue for much longer with all this madness.

I’m sorry but I can’t see how we can possibly go from where we are now to normal/near normal by April next year. I’d absolutely love to be wrong on this, but I think we’ll be living with restrictions for most of 2021. I said it previously, but for many I think 2021 will be worse than 2020 as we reap what we’ve sown. I’m sorry to sound so negative, but I’m bracing myself for a very difficult and unpleasant year ahead....
 

bramling

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Interesting stuff


...what they do see is a pattern of lockdown, spike...
..they don't see any reason why that isn't going to repeat itself...
...a vaccine ... is not going to get rid of coronavirus entirely...
...therefore they can see this going on possibly endlessly and they want to know, if that's the case, what do we do to save society/the economy...
Fingers crossed it doesn't go through.

That said, Labour seem pretty pro-lockdown, so many of their MPs could vote for it (and I'm ruling out voting for Labour as well, while they remain pro-lockdown)

It will get through one way or other. However there’s clearly a lot going on behind the scenes. The best we can hope for is a significant rebellion, which will at least make a point.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I’m sorry but I can’t see how we can possibly go from where we are now to normal/near normal by April next year. I’d absolutely love to be wrong on this, but I think we’ll be living with restrictions for most of 2021. I said it previously, but for many I think 2021 will be worse than 2020 as we reap what we’ve sown. I’m sorry to sound so negative, but I’m bracing myself for a very difficult and unpleasant year ahead....

The best we can probably hope for is restrictions gradually disappearing, but then we have to face up to repairing all the damage.

Until now I think things probably would have recovered reasonably freely. But we’re very much getting into the territory of terminal damage. So many businesses must now be on their last legs.
 

Class 33

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I’m sorry but I can’t see how we can possibly go from where we are now to normal/near normal by April next year. I’d absolutely love to be wrong on this, but I think we’ll be living with restrictions for most of 2021. I said it previously, but for many I think 2021 will be worse than 2020 as we reap what we’ve sown. I’m sorry to sound so negative, but I’m bracing myself for a very difficult and unpleasant year ahead....

Well we'll have to see. But if all this nonsense continues way way into 2021, then the unemployment numbers are going to be absolutely sky high, and many thousands of businesses would have closed down as a result of all these lockdowns and "social distancing guidelines". And with all these seemingly never-ending restrictions dragging on and on and the effect it's having on millions of people's livelihoods and mental health, I think a fair old number would have committed suicide by then, unable to take all this any longer.

The 31st March is when the law on these restrictions expires. At the rate this is going, I think it won't be until that date that all this ends. So I'm expecting the first 3 months of 2021 to be a complete and utter write-off, just like 9 months of this year has been. But come 31st March, It will be absolute madness if all this is extended beyond then. We just can not continue like this for beyond 12 months and with still no end in sight. It's gone on long enough as it is already. It is completely ruining the country and it's people.

Even though I'm certainly no fan of them, what with all their doom and gloom babblings. In Saturday's press briefing with Boris - even Whitty and Valance at the end were actually surprisingly positive about what the situation will be like by the spring, saying that the Coronavirus situation and medical treatment of it should be much much better by then.
 
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Jamesrob637

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Education has to be open though, there is no alternative.

I actually signed the petition to shut schools even though it would mean my mum not working until new year (I'm still on furlough thanks to Rishi extending the scheme for another month)

But now I think about things, schools should be partially open. Some year groups one week, others the next.
 

C J Snarzell

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The thing with this new lockdown, is that some people are of the opinion that come the 2nd December, people will be able to return to some normality but I doubt that is going to be the case.

I have a feeling, there maybe some truth to Michael Gove's suggestion it could be extended - I would say the government could push this for an extra week, maybe until the 9th/10th December, but they have to allow other non-essential businesses to open for Christmas - this goes without saying.

I reckon that once the lockdown is lifted, we will all revert to the Tier system again - Greater Manchester possibly ending up in Tier 2 with that snake Andy Burnham paying lip service and getting his best mush all over the Manchester Evening News as per usual.

CJ
 

Pete_uk

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I would expect lockdown 3 in January after all the getting together throughout Christmas and New years
 

adc82140

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36 hours later and local businesses here are starting to respond. The barbers shop is open 7am to 11pm until Wednesday. Take away menus have been published for many pubs and restaurants. I feel the weekend leak has done them a favour. We were not due to find out about any of this until tonight.
 

C J Snarzell

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36 hours later and local businesses here are starting to respond. The barbers shop is open 7am to 11pm until Wednesday. Take away menus have been published for many pubs and restaurants. I feel the weekend leak has done them a favour. We were not due to find out about any of this until tonight.

I'm going to Weatherspoons tomorrow night before it closes. 99p a pint, as they are draining all their stock before Thursday. A few cheap pints are just what the doctor ordered with a nice plump Empire State burger to soak it up.

CJ
 

yorksrob

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Absolutely. And of course it suits the government for people to be going round blaming each other, especially as there’s been some reports that Eat Out To Help Out likely caused quite a bit of spread.

I saw a report about a community who believed that eat out to help out cased a spike in cases in their area. There was no evidence to back this assertion up. I suspect that the old issue of multi-generational households would have been more of a factor.
 

island

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So 2 burning questions for me:

1) Can my mother go and see her 100 year old mother (my grandmother) by train (as she doesn't drive)?

2) And can I and my family visit my grandmother? We can drive

My grandmother lives alone, in her own flat and cannot get out on her own; therefore, she is totally reliant on us to order food and take her out for rides in the car etc. I would argue that she is in mine/my mother's support bubble even though we all live in different households. Of course, my mother and my family would visit at different times
The method of transport is irrelevant, but a support bubble can consist only of two households (one of which must be a single adult household), not three. As such you need to select two of the three households who can continue to meet indoors. The household not selected would need to rely on the exemption for two people (plus an unlimited number of preschool children) meeting in outdoor parks and open spaces, or some other exemption such as caring for a vulnerable person.

I will leave it to you to determine how enforceable any of this is, of course.
 

Islineclear3_1

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The method of transport is irrelevant, but a support bubble can consist only of two households (one of which must be a single adult household), not three. As such you need to select two of the three households who can continue to meet indoors. The household not selected would need to rely on the exemption for two people (plus an unlimited number of preschool children) meeting in outdoor parks and open spaces, or some other exemption such as caring for a vulnerable person.

I will leave it to you to determine how enforceable any of this is, of course.

Yes, my mother and I (with 2 other family members) take it in turns/alternate so that we are not all present with granny at the same time. My mother goes up one day and stays overnight (as it's too much for her to travel for 1 day) and thus, is one household. My wife, myself and our daughter go up another time and thus, we are a second household.

Granny is housebound and relies on our help and the only time she gets to savour the great outdoors is when my household come up in the car.

During the last lockdown, my mother was questioned on a few occasions whilst travelling on the train and she asserted (very politely) that she was going to provide care and assistance for her veteran mother (plus she has POA) and the train staff left her alone
 

henairs

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I’m sorry but I can’t see how we can possibly go from where we are now to normal/near normal by April next year. I’d absolutely love to be wrong on this, but I think we’ll be living with restrictions for most of 2021. I said it previously, but for many I think 2021 will be worse than 2020 as we reap what we’ve sown. I’m sorry to sound so negative, but I’m bracing myself for a very difficult and unpleasant year ahead....
Totally negative comments. We would never have achieved anything with pessimists like you.
We have to tackle and beat this epidemic otherwise we have no future.
You seem to have given up already. RIP
 

DB

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Totally negative comments. We would never have achieved anything with pessimists like you.
We have to tackle and beat this epidemic otherwise we have no future.
You seem to have given up already. RIP

It's not possible to 'beat' an epidemic. We just need to accept that what can be done is limited, and stop trashing the economy and society in general in a futile attempt to 'beat' it.
 

Huntergreed

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Totally negative comments. We would never have achieved anything with pessimists like you.
We have to tackle and beat this epidemic otherwise we have no future.
You seem to have given up already. RIP
How do you define “beat”? If you are implying we need to suppress the virus to the point of elimination, that’s unrealistic and will require a long, strict lockdown.

We need to learn to live with the virus. Indeed the under 50’s are currently being subjected to a huge number of restrictions and are being told to keep “safe” however when a vaccine is rolled out they’ll be free to catch it anyway. I think this point in particular needs to be made clear, as it would certainly make people more aware and less inclined to support this nonsense.

What angers me most about this second lockdown is the strong locktivists demanding we “close schools now”, to keep children “safe”, yet when a vaccine is rolled out children will be free to catch it anyway, as they already are with flu, which kills a dozen children (sadly) per year.
 

SuspectUsual

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Totally negative comments. We would never have achieved anything with pessimists like you.
We have to tackle and beat this epidemic otherwise we have no future.
You seem to have given up already. RIP

You should get a job writing speeches for Johnson. This sort of jingoistic claptrap is all the rage. Or are you saying the power of positive thought is enough to “beat” the virus?
 

henairs

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Tell us how, tell us how!

It's a virus, we normally don't 'beat' them.
When I say beat we have to work with it, live with it in the same way as we do at present with flu's etc.
As this is Covid 19 it implies we have already had 18 other types of Covid infections before and we are still here having learned to either live or combat those earlier examples.
We won't eradicate it totally but we have to have the resolve to come through this in a positive attitude.
In the words of Mr Reg Dwight "I'm still standing".
I want us all to come through this if only to honour the memory of those who haven't been so fortunate.
And I wish everyone else the strength to win this battle.
 

Domh245

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When I say beat we have to work with it, live with it in the same way as we do at present with flu's etc.

I must have missed all the other knee jerk lockdowns imposed to rising flu cases every autumn...

As this is Covid 19 it implies we have already had 18 other types of Covid infections before and we are still here having learned to either live or combat those earlier examples.

Oh dear. The etymology of Covid 19 is: COronaVirus IDentified 2019 - indeed the virus that actually causes the condition of Covid 19 is SARS-CoV-2. SARS-CoV (1) is what caused an outbreak in 2002-4

You'll have to forgive people for loosing all hope. Between various other world events, the reaction to this pandemic has convinced many (myself included) that's there's no point to anything anymore. Quite frankly the world has got what's coming to it.
 

Darandio

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As this is Covid 19 it implies we have already had 18 other types of Covid infections before and we are still here having learned to either live or combat those earlier examples.

If you hadn't already figured out that Covid 19 = 2019 then you aren't really the right sort of person to be preaching to people about it.
 
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