Lockdown in England from Thursday 5 November until Wednesday 2 December

[6862]

Online education for now. Might only be until January anyway. The BBC news had an article on it.

'Until January', at which point it will become 'until March'. Then 'until June'...

 

[DB]

The biggest single mistake has been sending the students back to university. Massive driver of increased transmission, and now they’re in limbo.

The biggest single mistake is pretending that an infectious airborne virus like this can be controlled. Plus the government consistently exaggerating how dangerous it is.

 

[Scotrail12]

Online education for now. Might only be until January anyway. The BBC news had an article on it.

'Might only be until January' - OK, I'm assuming you didn't get 2-3 months of poorer quality education then when you were at school? Feel free to fill me in on that one.

Secondly, not all kids have sufficient technology for this. And how do you propose to manage a primary school class online? As somebody who has spent time volunteering in primary schools, I can assure you that this is a train wreck waiting to happen - it's hard enough to keep kids engaged when in class let alone on a laptop at home. Kids also need to be social and with other kids - it's crucial for social development.

 

[Darandio]

Online education for now.

It's workable for secondary schools as much was learned about delivering it last time, whether that be Google Classrooms, Hegarty Maths etc etc. In my experience for primary schools it isn't, don't let those adverts on tv showing young children doing virtual classes with their friends fool you, that wasn't the norm at all.

 

[Jamesrob637]

'Might only be until January' - OK, I'm assuming you didn't get 2-3 months of poorer quality education then when you were at school? Feel free to fill me in on that one.

Secondly, not all kids have sufficient technology for this. And how do you propose to manage a primary school class online? As somebody who has spent time volunteering in primary schools, I can assure you that this is a train wreck waiting to happen - it's hard enough to keep kids engaged when in class let alone on a laptop at home. Kids also need to be social and with other kids - it's crucial for social development.

Otherwise schools will keep closing anyway and disturbing kids' education.

 

[Scotrail12]

Otherwise schools will keep closing anyway and disturbing kids' education.

You've not answered my question or even attempted a response to what I said in that quoted post.

Do you actually have any knowledge at all on how a primary school class works? Explain how a primary school lesson can be done through Zoom and how it can be effective for the kids education?

Or alternatively - schools should just remain open and kids should be allowed to have the same opportunity that all of us had. It's not good enough to shut down the education sector for a virus and it is a very short sighted move which will create a long term problem.

 

[big_rig]

I just went down to my local morrisons to get dinner, and it's already kicking off. There was a fist fight at one of the checkouts and already a lot of the main staple shelves are emptying. This is chaos. I've decided to abandon that plan and go into town where hopefully the smaller shops are more sane.

What the hell is happening.

Crikey! My Sainsbury's was absolutely rammed as well, haven't seen it that busy in months. I have to laugh though as you would expect any vestiges of 'social distancing' were out the window. It's almost like when push comes to shove very few people care about it at all Much like how I have never seen anybody in 200 or so underground journeys I've taken over the last few months not get on a busy unit and wait for another one.

You've not answered my question or even attempted a response to what I said in that quoted post.

Do you actually have any knowledge at all on how a primary school class works? Explain how a primary school lesson can be done through Zoom and how it can be effective for the kids education?

Or alternatively - schools should just remain open and kids should be allowed to have the same opportunity that all of us had. It's not good enough to shut down the education sector for a virus and it is a very short sighted move which will create a long term problem.

The children on the estate I pass through most days must have been learning very quickly on Zoom, as they seemed to have an awful lot of free time to hang round in the carpark throwing rocks at each other. A ticking time bomb which will affect the least privileged the most, like so much of the rest of this isn't it.

 

[Bantamzen]

'Restrictions' are good and 'snappy' enough. Emotive soundbites like "human rights on a massive scale" mean absolutely nothing. These measures, although poorly timed, announced and managed are entirely within the scope of the 1984 Public Health act.

How about something like "measures that result in people losing their jobs, their ability to pay for the very basics of modern life, and their ability to pay towards the services that are there for us all"?

Does that work better for you?

 

[Bikeman78]

It will be mass non-compliance, followed by civil disobedience if there’s any attempt to do serious enforcement.

Wales is supposedly in a lockdown at the moment. Yet the roads are still busy. I've no idea where everyone is going.

 

[Jamesrob637]

You've not answered my question or even attempted a response to what I said in that quoted post.

Do you actually have any knowledge at all on how a primary school class works? Explain how a primary school lesson can be done through Zoom and how it can be effective for the kids education?

Or alternatively - schools should just remain open and kids should be allowed to have the same opportunity that all of us had. It's not good enough to shut down the education sector for a virus and it is a very short sighted move which will create a long term problem.

My mum works in a primary school and was doing Zoom classes when I was there in June after bubble restrictions eased. She said there'll never be a substitute for the real thing but she felt a lot safer at home, and most of the kids seemed focused on the task. I'd love to say that schools will be safe going back on Monday (I think Scotland had half term late September?) but I can't see cases coming down quickly enough with education remaining as normal. Her year group had to go home with COVID the week before half term too.

 

[PeterY]

Absolutely mad. What was that old quote about insanity being trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?

If it didn't work first time around I can't see it working a second time.

The first lockdown worked OK for me, lighter nights and generally lovely spring weather. It was easy to go out for "1 hours" exercise. Now it's, bleak, winter, dark and miserable weather.

My heart sank when I heard the news this morning. During the first lockdown, luckily I was able to work, I do gardening but this time, there's no gardening to do. The prospect of being stuck in my flat, with my own company for four weeks, feels me with despair and dread.

During the winter months, I do volunteering in a charity shop, so I won't be able to go, if it's a full lock down. It's also a busy time for us.

I bent "the rules" to suit myself during the first lockdown, this time it will be a lot harder.

We may save the NHS, which is good but to the detriment of the nations mental well being.

 

[adc82140]

Online education for now. Might only be until January anyway. The BBC news had an article on it.

My kids school (primary) has had to hire a remedial teacher for the third of the year group who received the sum total of no education during the spring. I consider us to be living in a fairly affluent rural community. I dread to think what happened in the inner cities.

 

[AM9]

How about something like "measures that result in people losing their jobs, their ability to pay for the very basics of modern life, and their ability to pay towards the services that are there for us all"?

Does that work better for you?

How about something nearer the actual situation, i.e measures necessary to arrest/retard a rapidly increasing infection rate.

 

[birchesgreen]

'Might only be until January' - OK, I'm assuming you didn't get 2-3 months of poorer quality education then when you were at school? Feel free to fill me in on that one.

Actually anyone who went to school in the mid-80s during all the teacher strikes probably did. I didn't have homework for over a year plus had lots of lessons cancelled. I still got 9 GCSEs, kids can be quite resilient as long as this doesn't go on forever...

 

[trainophile]

They had to let the university students go back as they had already had their £9,000s.

I do agree about education being important, these are the doctors etc. who we will be depending on in our old age. (Generic "we" - I'm in that category already!)

 

[DB]

How about something nearer the actual situation, i.e measures necessary to arrest/retard a rapidly increasing infection rate.

That may be what you view them as, but that is not a universal belief.

 

[trainophile]

Does anyone actually know how many of the 21,000-odd new cases today are actually ill?

 

[Class 33]

Originally the press conference was supposed to be at 4pm, then it was moved to 5pm, now it's expected around 6:30pm. What an earth are they up to?

So it seems there really is going to be a month long lockdown. We're just waiting for Johnson to confirm it along with Whitty and Valance with their doom and gloom as usual. This lockdown is going to be pretty much the same as it was back in March and April and we will be told "You must stay at home. Protect the NHS. Save lives.". This is going to be absolutely catastrophic for thousands of businesses up and down the country. Many just won't be able to survive having to close down yet again. There will be many thousands of jobs cuts again. Plus of course the effect this will have on the nation's mental health. Many people just won't be able to take going through all this nonsense yet again. I read a posting on the DS forums late last night, that one person upon hearing the country will be going in to full lockdown again, they committed suicide. Very sad the effect this is having on people, including extreme examples of people committing suicide as they just can't take it.

 

[Bantamzen]

How about something nearer the actual situation, i.e measures necessary to arrest/retard a rapidly increasing infection rate.

Or how about getting it into our heads that viruses will spread, lockdown or no lockdown? After all they have been doing this for hundreds of millions of years, which is hundreds of millions more years than we have existed.

 

[kristiang85]

Does anyone actually know how many of the 21,000-odd new cases today are actually ill?

I presume the usual 80% are asymptomatic.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Or how about getting it into our heads that viruses will spread, lockdown or no lockdown? After all they have been doing this for hundreds of millions of years, which is hundreds of millions more years than we have existed.

Stop presenting facts please.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The National Education Union are now proving their point about closing schools.

A phased attendance could be a solution, half the school in one week, the other half the next week etc.

 

[birchesgreen]

Originally the press conference was supposed to be at 4pm, then it was moved to 5pm, now it's expected around 6:30pm. What an earth are they up to?

Rishi Sunak can't find his graphic designer so can't get his snazzy branded graphic for his twitter feed done.

 

[Bantamzen]

Stop presenting facts please.

Sorry, I shall send myself to the factual naughty corner...

 

[trainophile]

I presume the usual 80% are asymptomatic.

So how come they have managed to get tested? I thought tests were like hen's teeth and only available for those with symptoms?

 

[Dent]

How about something nearer the actual situation, i.e measures necessary to arrest/retard a rapidly increasing infection rate.

First of all, there is not a "rapidly increasing infection rate". The infection rate has been slowing for a while and is now starting to decrease.

Secondly, it is not objectively proven that these measures are necessary, or even that they will achieve anything beneficial.

What you describe as the "actual situation" is nothing of the sort. It is a combination of opinion bashing ("necessary") and misinformation ("rapidly increasing infection rate" when the infection rate is not rapidly increasing).

 

[kristiang85]

So how come they have managed to get tested? I thought tests were like hen's teeth and only available for those with symptoms?

That's only pillar 2. People in hospitals, for example, are tested every week it seems. And the surveillance ones are of healthy people too.

• pillar 1: swab testing in Public Health England (PHE) labs and NHS hospitals for those with a clinical need, and health and care workers
• pillar 2: swab testing for the wider population, as set out in government guidance
• pillar 3: serology testing to show if people have antibodies from having had COVID-19
• pillar 4: blood and swab testing for national surveillance supported by PHE, the Office for National Statistics (ONS), and research, academic, and scientific partners to learn more about the prevalence and spread of the virus and for other testing research purposes, such as the accuracy and ease of use of home testing

 

[158756]

The biggest single mistake has been sending the students back to university. Massive driver of increased transmission, and now they’re in limbo.

If university lecturers don't want to work maybe we should grant them their wish, but on the condition that universities have to repay all tuition fees and rent for this year and will not receive a penny from the government. See how they like what they're doing to the country then.

Otherwise schools will keep closing anyway and disturbing kids' education.

There is no way of avoiding that, lockdown or no lockdown, unless we just treat it as a cold and allow children to continue attending school with the virus. The virus cannot be eradicated, and unless you want lockdown to go on for ever cases will never be few enough to have none in schools. We've already done this once, months of lockdown didn't stop it spreading in schools in September.

 

[ABB125]

If university lecturers don't want to work maybe we should grant them their wish, but on the condition that universities have to repay all tuition fees and rent for this year and will not receive a penny from the government. See how they like what they're doing to the country then.

Sounds like a good idea! I'd be happy with that. Even better if I get paid a lump sum of cash rather than the money going back to the loan people!
Although I don't think universities (or at least Birmingham!) have actually been paid the full tuition fee yet; certainly, I think only around half of mine has been paid, with another quarter due next term, and the rest in the final term.

 

[37424]

First of all, there is not a "rapidly increasing infection rate". The infection rate has been slowing for a while and is now starting to decrease.

Secondly, it is not objectively proven that these measures are necessary, or even that they will achieve anything beneficial.

What you describe as the "actual situation" is nothing of the sort. It is a combination of opinion bashing ("necessary") and misinformation ("rapidly increasing infection rate" when the infection rate is not rapidly increasing).

Do you really think that Johnson would be going for a national Lockdown if that was actually the case from the data they are seeing. Even 'Steve Baker' a hard right winger has just been on the BBC having been into downing street this afternoon to look at the data, and his comment was that the government had difficult decisions to make.