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Lockdown in England from Thursday 5 November until Wednesday 2 December

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Cardiff123

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Once again, you're regular warning that with this story, 'national' = England.
Public health policy is fully devolved to the 4 nations of the UK, and Boris Johnson only has a say over Covid & public health policy in England.

The London based UK media are too lazy/ignorant to point this out though.
Wales is in lockdown now, and this ends for us on 9th November.
 
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Huntergreed

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Personally, I think it will happen. It’s inevitable:

Running a functional society and suppressing a contagious virus do not work well together, you need to stop one in order to allow the other. I just believe the government are prioritising the wrong one.

No doubt Sturgeon will go a step further and introduce a 5 week lockdown with snipers located on every street.

On a more serious note, this demonstrates the problem with the current strategy. Suppression towards elimination does not work and costs millions.

If this happens, I can’t see compliance being as high, and we have to be very careful as if we start to turn the population against the police who enforce these ludicrous rules, that’s a recipe for disaster.
 

bramling

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Personally, I think it will happen. It’s inevitable:

Running a functional society and suppressing a contagious virus do not work well together, you need to stop one in order to allow the other. I just believe the government are prioritising the wrong one.

No doubt Sturgeon will go a step further and introduce a 5 week lockdown with snipers located on every street.

To be honest I think we should just have done the circuit breaker. Not because I think it’s a good idea or ever was, but simply because this was always going to happen, and the later it comes in the longer it will be before they can reach a point where the politicians feel it’s politically viable to lift it.

It looks like we’re getting four weeks, and what’s the betting that gets extended?

Still, if there’s a backlash over the weekend then Boris may change his mind.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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I don't think Sturgeon will impose any sort of nationwide restrictions. The situation in Scotland seems to be improving now, and if she was to impose nationwide restrictions then it'd portray an image that she had failed.

Of course she could just take the easy route and go for full lockdown and blame Westminster - because of course nothing is her fault.
 

Huntergreed

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I don't think Sturgeon will impose any sort of nationwide restrictions. The situation in Scotland seems to be improving now, and if she was to impose nationwide restrictions then it'd portray an image that she had failed.

Of course she could just take the easy route and go for full lockdown and blame Westminster - because of course nothing is her fault.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens. The measures here certainly aren’t suppressing the virus, merely slowing the growth.
 

C J Snarzell

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As I've said previously, on a few threads civil unrest is likely. It may not be on the scale of the riots we've seen in years gone by, but there will be flash points if a second lockdown is called. People are fed up and if the cops pick a wrong person or a wrong area to challenge a 'breach' there is likely to be angry retaliation.

CJ
 

philosopher

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To be honest I think we should just have done the circuit breaker. Not because I think it’s a good idea or ever was, but simply because this was always going to happen, and the later it comes in the longer it will be before they can reach a point where the politicians feel it’s politically viable to lift it.

It looks like we’re getting four weeks, and what’s the betting that gets extended?

Still, if there’s a backlash over the weekend then Boris may change his mind.

I do think the lockdown will end in December as Boris will not want to be seen as the Grinch who stole Christmas. The issue is that all I think this does is kick the can down the road for a few weeks. In December, cases will likely spike again as people meet up for Christmas, meaning there will be pressure for another lockdown in January.
 

bramling

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As I've said previously, on a few threads civil unrest is likely. It may not be on the scale of the riots we've seen in years gone by, but there will be flash points if a second lockdown is called. People are fed up and if the cops pick a wrong person or a wrong area to challenge a 'breach' there is likely to be angry retaliation.

CJ

I’m sure they’ll probably manage to shut down a child’s birthday party somewhere!
 

Huntergreed

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As I've said previously, on a few threads civil unrest is likely. It may not be on the scale of the riots we've seen in years gone by, but there will be flash points if a second lockdown is called. People are fed up and if the cops pick a wrong person or a wrong area to challenge a 'breach' there is likely to be angry retaliation.

CJ
Absolutely. Remember “significant normality by November”? Now turned into “full lockdown for November”. People are losing a significant amount of their very limited time on this Earth for questionable reasons made by deluded governments. It must stop.
 

SuspectUsual

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And the only thing they won’t lock down is the age group with the highest infection rate. Absolute lunacy
7CC035F1-CAC4-40E8-98A0-81797A33ADF8.png
 

bramling

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I do think the lockdown will end in December as Boris will not want to be seen as the Grinch who stole Christmas. The issue is that all I think this does is kick the can down the road for a few weeks. In December, cases will likely spike again as people meet up for Christmas, meaning there will be pressure for another lockdown in January.

There’s a problem for sure, as the last lockdown took quite a while to “get the virus down”, and that was with schools closed. But extend things beyond the beginning of December and that’s getting very close to Christmas, or at least people’s preparations for it. It seems “save Christmas” is the new big thing, so that could be a problem.

As you say it will then flare up again as a result of Christmas, and we can then look forward to lockdown no. 3.
 

Huntergreed

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There’s a problem for sure, as the last lockdown took quite a while to “get the virus down”, and that was with schools closed. But extend things beyond the beginning of December and that’s getting very close to Christmas, or at least people’s preparations for it. It seems “save Christmas” is the new big thing, so that could be a problem.

As you say it will then flare up again as a result of Christmas, and we can then look forward to lockdown no. 3.
Exactly. This is an indefinite cycle until a vaccine, unless our government change strategy. It’s really scary how serious this is economically but most people don’t seem to see that.
 

Jamesrob637

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We should learn one thing from la Belgique if we do (quoted from the BBC):

"households are allowed just one visitor."

Even one person visiting would make a massive difference for many. Class33 should at least back me up here.
 

bramling

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Exactly. This is an indefinite cycle until a vaccine, unless our government change strategy. It’s really scary how serious this is economically but most people don’t seem to see that.

It’s having a serious toll on mental health now too, and on health in other ways too.

Meanwhile Sky News have just reported that some kind of statement is expected from BJ on, you guessed it, Monday...
 

Huntergreed

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It’s having a serious toll on mental health now too, and on health in other ways too.

Meanwhile Sky News have just reported that some kind of statement is expected from BJ on, you guessed it, Monday...
Monday at 8PM? (No doubt followed up by Sturgeon at 8:05PM)
 

HSTEd

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Exactly. This is an indefinite cycle until a vaccine, unless our government change strategy. It’s really scary how serious this is economically but most people don’t seem to see that.

The country is run by rich people gettin very close to guaranteed pensions.

Why do they care if the poor die?

They are just cattle after all.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Thing is, outside your home would then become "the bare minimum".

Same when they were first introduced on public transport in June - that would have been the bare minimum. Then shops, then other public indoor places, then staff canteens, etc. You get the picture.
I think this t-shirt sums things up nicely
E352A3D6-2F23-4E35-9856-AE6427063FB7.jpeg
 

GRALISTAIR

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Bloody hope this doesn't turn out to be true. A full 4 week national lockdown will finish off many businesses in the hospitality and leisure industry. And more depressingly, I think the number of suicides will go through the roof. Many people in particular vulnerable people living on their own just won't be able to take going through all this yet again. Please god NO to this predicted full national 4 week lockdown.

Agreed - please god no.
 

initiation

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Oh for god sake. The talk of saving Christmas is meaningless if loads of people have lost their jobs, committed suicide etc...

However I fear this is inevitable, the media storm will grow this weekend and drown out all sensibility. It's really sad that a 'good outcome' in my mind now is that Boris holds out to next weekend - i've already missed 3 holidays this year and have a long weekend planned with friends in the countryside.

And why the hell were SAGE briefing the media yesterday/thursday - they are a scientific advisory group to the government, not a pressure group feeding scare stories to the media.
 

Paul_10

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Boris has always said, whilst reluctant, if cases and more importantly hospital admissions go the wrong way then he will have to consider the toughest measures to try and get things back under control.

All these decisions should not be based on Xmas either, that would be lunancy to say thr least.

As ever, anywhere that closes must get government support, if you can't afford it then shutting everything down is perhaps not the right way to go but it does seem unless there is a vaccine, there is no real way of defeating this virus.
 

Jonny

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Boris has always said, whilst reluctant, if cases and more importantly hospital admissions go the wrong way then he will have to consider the toughest measures to try and get things back under control.

All these decisions should not be based on Xmas either, that would be lunancy to say thr least.

As ever, anywhere that closes must get government support, if you can't afford it then shutting everything down is perhaps not the right way to go but it does seem unless there is a vaccine, there is no real way of defeating this virus.

The problem then, which has been done to death on other threads, is how do you vaccinate enough people? It is logistically difficult and that is before the curveball of asking most of the population to take a vaccine, and a newly developed one at that, for something that does not pose much risk to them.
 

johnnychips

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As ever, anywhere that closes must get government support, if you can't afford it then shutting everything down is perhaps not the right way to go but it does seem unless there is a vaccine, there is no real way of defeating this virus.

You can’t defeat a virus, you have to accept that you have to learn to live with it. Whatever course you take there will be casualties. These could be people dying or becoming very ill of CV; it could be people unable to access treatment for diseases like cancer; or could be more people becoming mentally ill; or many more people becoming unemployed.

It’s a hard choice, but it will take a brave leader to stand up and say that prioritising the first choice is perhaps not the overriding priority. And we haven’t got a brave leader or leader of the opposition.
 

infobleep

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Who cares how it's doing now, it's how we do at the end of it that's the important thing.
I care because we need to know if it was worth doing so that governments can learn form it.
 

duncanp

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And yet Kings College London are saying that cases are not spiralling out of control.

But it does seem inevitable that some kind of further restrictions will apply from next week, after the classic government tactic of leaking their plans late on Friday night just to see what the reaction will be.




Covid-19 rates are not surging, researchers at King's College have said after results from its symptom tracker app showed a far less deadly virus trajectory than Imperial College findings.
Earlier in the week, Imperial released interim data from its React-1 study which showed there are now nearly 100,000 new coronavirus cases a day in England, with nearly one million people infected. The Imperial team said rates were doubling every nine days and it was a critical time for lowering the 'R' rate.
However, King's College – which has been monitoring the symptoms and test results of millions of people through its app – said it was not seeing such alarming numbers. The app found 43,569 daily new symptomatic cases on average, and calculated that doubling was happening every 28 days.
Tim Spector, professor of genetic epidemiology at King's College, said: "While cases are still rising across the UK, we want to reassure people that cases have not spiralled out of control, as has been recently reported from other surveys. We are still seeing a steady rise nationally, doubling every four weeks – with the possible exception of Scotland, which may be showing signs of a slowdown.

"With a million people reporting weekly, we have the largest national survey and our estimates are in line with the Office for National Statistics (ONS) survey. We can't rely simply on confirmed cases or daily deaths without putting them into context. Hospital admissions are rising as expected, but deaths are still average for the season."

New figures released by the ONS also put the number of daily infections far lower than Imperial's figures.
The ONS estimates that 568,100 people are currently infected, with 51,900 new cases each day – equating to around one in 100 people, up from 1 in 130 people in the previous week.
Although the ONS figures show the virus is accelerating, increasing by just under 50 per cent in a week, the doubling time is still between 12 and 14 days, far less than Imperial's rate.
The latest nowcasting data from Cambridge University's MRC Biostatistics Unit estimates there are 55,600 new daily infections, while Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) believes the figures are between 50,000 and 63,000.
There is also widespread disagreement on the current 'R' rate, with Imperial suggesting it is around 1.6 for England but King's saying it is closer to 1.1. Sage also believes the 'R' rate is between 1.1 and 1.3. The figures, produced by the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (SPI-M) group, are lower than last week when they stood at between 1.2 and 1.4.
A source close to the Government science team said the lower rates could mean that some of the new restrictions were having an impact. However, they said the virus was still growing at an alarming rate.
"The numbers are still headed in the wrong direction," the source said. "It still means everything is growing. It probably implies some of the measures are having an effect, but this is far from a shrinking epidemic."

Commenting on the disparities between the groups, Professor James Naismith, of the University of Oxford, said it was difficult to determine which group's figures were the most accurate.
"We can't simply average or say one is right," he said. "They are all well planned and carried out by experts. They all measure slightly different things and therefore have uncertainty.
"What is concerning is the numbers and trajectories reported by these three surveys differ significantly from the average of 18,000 detected by track and trace system. The data also help understand why track and tracing has not worked.
"Using the ONS data, we would estimate 330,000 new cases week ending 21 October. This means, assuming the contact number per person are right, which is a big assumption, one million people need to be contacted.
 

Jonny

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How much of this depends on the data from the Imperial College survey, which would be OK if it wasn't for the fact that Imperial College is also developing a potential vaccine???
 

C J Snarzell

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Monday at 8PM? (No doubt followed up by Sturgeon at 8:05PM)

No doubt bumbling and banging his clenched fist on the table and telling us we will fight this and what a great nation we are. At least his speech means no Eastenders which is punishment & misery itself.

CJ
 
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