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Given that the small stations are request stops anyway, I doubt it would. I know they tried to do Junction-Blaenau 2 hourly with a single unit in the 90s some time and it failed as the turnarounds were too tight.
Maybe, but don’t they have to build in an allowance for the request stops in case they are needed.
Are there any quicker DMUs they could use on the Conwy Valley to pinch a couple of minutes, at one time they were considering using the Viva rail units, would they have been quicker?
Maybe, but don’t they have to build in an allowance for the request stops in case they are needed.
Are there any quicker DMUs they could use on the Conwy Valley to pinch a couple of minutes, at one time they were considering using the Viva rail units, would they have been quicker?
The 197s will give EMU like performance (195s do) - if it's going to work with anything bar sticking the wires up (which isn't going to happen) it'll work with those.
A 2 hourly clockface timetable is a real holy grail for the line - you could simply alternate it with X19s for an hourly service (running time is near-identical) and it'd work well to connect with the Snowdon Sherpas which do I think run on a clockface schedule in summer at least.
230s are quick off the mark but door operation is very, very slow which means they are in practice slightly slower in operation than 150s on the Marston Vale, and lose time on the Class 150 based timetable.
The bus from Taunton to Minehead has through-tickets from any UK station, and is listed on the departure board at Taunton station. The line closed almost 50 years ago. Why this can't be replicated everywhere appropriate is absolutely bizarre, the costs involved must be minimal
It still could be withdrawn easier than a rail service, but the fact 'Minehead Bus' appears on rail journey planner websites is potentially very useful. Many Welsh towns that are not on the rail network are (or were) even in the rail industry's Computer Reservation System. New Quay for example has (or had) the CRS code NQC (New Quay Ceredigion) - the reason I know this is there was a time when Mixing Deck journey planners would offer them as valid destinations a while ago. They just needed to add the bus services to places like NQC into their database; if you tried it it would have said no services available or something like that.
That's the side which has more population on it, and the side where the X19/T19 runs! The other side I think has an infrequent bus service of some sort due to the massively lower demand.
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Not knowing it so well (though knowing the area) but suspect that the fact it’s mostly single line would preclude increasing the rail frequency without a lot of investment. Similarly, closing the line would be political dynamite.
There is a loop at Llanrwst North, so you can have two trains on the branch, which means if it was cost-effective to have a second unit on there then you can get a better frequency, I think the best it's had was about every 90 minutes in the mid-90s some time. I half recall reading on here that the interlocking on the loop requires recertifying in some way so couldn't presently be used, but I might be thinking of somewhere else.
That loop does sit with Rufford in surprising me it hasn't been plainlined, though, given how often it's not used
When there was a separate local service Llandudno to Holyhead serving the request stops (I think that may have been binned in the 1998 timetable change which recast a lot of what was then North Western Trains) it interworked with that using the pair of 3-car (in summer) Class 101 sets, and that did have some services passing at Llanrwst so you could have a more useful service to the times people wanted to travel, e.g. you could have a school train and a commuter train (you can't have that with one unit as it's a 3 hour round trip, and the times you want each of those are about 1h45 apart).
Thats the side which has more population on it, and the side where the X19/T19 runs! The other side I think has an infrequent bus service of some sort due to the massively lower demand.
The majority of buses (the slower route 19) actually serve the western side of the valley below Llanrwst, though Glan Conwy (the only significant settlement on the eastern side) is also served by Arriva 25 - slightly more frequently than the X19 or the train!
The least worst solution might be for all the buses to use the West side and for the train to run more frequently but mostly only to Betws, plus a couple of journeys to Blaenau for tourists to connect with the FR?
The least worst solution might be for all the buses to use the West side and for the train to run more frequently but mostly only to Betws, plus a couple of journeys to Blaenau for tourists to connect with the FR?
I have wondered about the idea of doing that, which could be done as a 2 hourly clockface service with one unit. You could perhaps have a morning (commuter), lunchtime (tourist) and evening (commuter) run all the way down?
I have wondered about the idea of doing that, which could be done as a 2 hourly clockface service with one unit. You could perhaps have a morning (commuter), lunchtime (tourist) and evening (commuter) run all the way down?
With present rolling stock it couldn't be true clockface, but quite close to it.
I would want two tourist trains through to Blaenau rather than one.
Junction to Blaenau at 0620-1020-1420-1820.
Junction to Betws 0830-1230-1630-2030FO.
That's assuming the potential commuter flow South of Betws is for 9-5 jobs. If it was College traffic then 1630 to Blaenau would be better. If both that might be best catered for by minibuses from Betws off the 1630 and 1820.
I'm a bit confused there - are you using two units? The 0620 to Blaenau wouldn't be back in time to operate an 0830 to Betws (at least not reliably), it's near enough a three hour cycle.
I'm a bit confused there - are you using two units? The 0620 to Blaenau wouldn't be back in time to operate an 0830 to Betws (at least not reliably), it's near enough a three hour cycle.
No, sorry, I'm assuming terminating at the Junction - that's the only way to increase the frequency with one unit. In practice you would want to interwork (say) Blaenau-Llandudno-Bangor with 2 units.
No, sorry, I'm assuming terminating at the Junction - that's the only way to increase the frequency with one unit. In practice you would want to interwork (say) Blaenau-Llandudno-Bangor with 2 units.
Trouble with that is that if the connection to Llandudno isn't good, nobody will use it. Junction does have some retail these days but isn't a metropolis.
Yes, the tourists connect from the mainline, but the "local train for local people" purpose is going to involve Llandudno rather than the Junction.
I seem to recall the existence of a website that showed the historical timetables for the route - anyone recall where it is? That might show you what could be done with 2 units as per the pre-1998 timetable. There were still buses in the railway timetable back then, though - I think it was a late evening down-and-back.
If it closes a cycleway would be an excellent use for it, as cycling down the main road isn't much fun. The flooding damage issues could be resolved by taking it down to ground level in a number of places on the flood-prone northern section (it'd still flood, of course, but the water would just wash over the tarmac with much less damage). However, I can't see the tunnel staying open for cyclists, to be honest; stopping maintaining it would be a considerable saving, so I'd see it being more like Woodhead, with the need to join the road (probably at Roman Bridge) to continue.
Trouble with that is that if the connection to Llandudno isn't good, nobody will use it. Junction does have some retail these days but isn't a metropolis.
That's why I suggested interworking with a Llandudno-Bangor stopper, which is rather like what happened in the last years of the 101s. I should perhaps have said "crossing" rather than "terminating" at the Junction - I think we basically agree.
Unfortunately the loop at Llanrwst, even when usable, doesn't help timetabling very much - a 2-train 90-minute interval to Blaenau is way over the top.
Unfortunately the loop at Llanrwst, even when usable, doesn't help timetabling very much - a 2-train 90-minute interval to Blaenau is way over the top.
I'm pretty sure if you had two units and the loop (at North Llanrwst) is operational you could do a clockface service every 2 hours; a less efficient use of the two units (since they would be sat in Llandudno/Blaenau for a long while between trips) than a 90-minute interval service but with departure times being more memorable. I wonder if interworking with a third unit (doing Holyhead-Llandudno all stops every 2hrs) and extending from Blaenau to Trawsfynydd would eliminate the long idle periods and permit a clockface Llandudno-Trawsfynydd service every 2hrs without needing a 4th unit.
I'm pretty sure if you had two units and the loop (at North Llanrwst) is operational you could do a clockface service every 2 hours; a less efficient use of the two units (since they would be sat in Llandudno/Blaenau for a long while between trips) than a 90-minute interval service but with departure times being more memorable. I wonder if interworking with a third unit (doing Holyhead-Llandudno all stops every 2hrs) and extending from Blaenau to Trawsfynydd would eliminate the long idle periods and permit a clockface Llandudno-Trawsfynydd service every 2hrs without needing a 4th unit.
Would it be feasible, if using two units, to do a 2 hourly clockface frequency but also have it do a Llandudno shuttle in between so the Manchester unit doesn't have to?
Would it be feasible, if using two units, to do a 2 hourly clockface frequency but also have it do a Llandudno shuttle in between so the Manchester unit doesn't have to?
Trouble with that is that if the connection to Llandudno isn't good, nobody will use it. Junction does have some retail these days but isn't a metropolis.
Yes, the tourists connect from the mainline, but the "local train for local people" purpose is going to involve Llandudno rather than the Junction.
I seem to recall the existence of a website that showed the historical timetables for the route - anyone recall where it is? That might show you what could be done with 2 units as per the pre-1998 timetable. There were still buses in the railway timetable back then, though - I think it was a late evening down-and-back.
A tiny, former Netto, Asda minimarket and an Iceland, by which time your shopping would have melted before you got home!
There are no decent pubs, but there is an excellent fish and chip shop (Enoch’s) and two nice little coffee shops (L’s and Providero) two minutes walk away from the station.
Conwy Valley residents need the train to run to Llandudno to make the service useful for everyday travel needs (and to visit the pub, especially Tapps a great micropub, two minutes walk from Llandudno Station!)
Would it be feasible, if using two units, to do a 2 hourly clockface frequency but also have it do a Llandudno shuttle in between so the Manchester unit doesn't have to?
Not sure; I think there's time for it to get to the Junction and back but it might not be at a sensible time to provide even intervals between Llandudno and the Junction. Anyway, if you did that I think the Manchester unit would be sitting idle for ages instead so you don't really gain anything.
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