UK face coverings discussion

[DB]

They are already wearing a label by not wearing a mask in a place where the law requires one to be worn unless exempt. At least with a lanyard or similar, that label is then definitely not "the law doesn't apply to me".

It's really very similar to a Blue Badge, yet people have no issues with that scheme.

Will you just give over? Those of us who can't wear masks are finding this draining enough as it is, never knowing when some jobsworth or self-righteous member of the public is going to challenge. It has been explained numerous times why a formal exemption process would simply not be practical but you are determined to ignore it.

And it's not at all similar to the blue badge - that goes on a car, not a person, and if for some reason anyone particularly objects to it and is prepared to put up with the inconvenience (I can't see why they would) they can not have one and park elsewhere. There isn't that option with masks as it's mandated in every shop.

 

[Yew]

It's really very similar to a Blue Badge, yet people have no issues with that scheme.

Repeating things does not make them true

 

[Scotrail12]

The BBC have mandated face coverings for the Strictly audience. Looks a bit odd seeing a bunch of masked people in the background of the routines. The contestants don't have to wear them while the show is live though so I don't get why the audience do if they are keeping their distance. Why one rule for celebs and one rule for the public?

It's my favourite show and I am beyond thrilled it is back but this minor thing is a tad annoying.

 

[Alex C.]

The BBC have mandated face coverings for the Strictly audience. Looks a bit odd seeing a bunch of masked people in the background of the routines. The contestants don't have to wear them while the show is live though so I don't get why the audience do if they are keeping their distance. Why one rule for celebs and one rule for the public?

It's my favourite show and I am beyond thrilled it is back but this minor thing is a tad annoying.

Isn't it as simple as not being an absolute? Mitigation measures should all theoretically reduce the rate of transmission to some degree, the more mitigation in place, the more reduction. The celebrities are part of close contact groups and receive very regular testing amongst other precautions which won't be in place for the public audience. The BBC will have to risk assess everything and decide on appropriate mitigations for everyone involved.

Whatever debate there is to be had about masks, any organisation that ignores them as a potential mitigation measure opens themselves up to a potential liability. The Government's scientific position is that masks are effective at reducing person to person transmission so that's what risk assessments are based on.

 

[VauxhallandI]

On Friday I attended Mercato Metropolitano near Borough tube in London.

Now I wish I had taken a photo of it but they had a sign outside that stated that photocopies or pictures of exemptions were not allowed.

I really wish I had taken that photo as I would definitely reported them as it was I busy trying to get in so didn’t want to rock the boat - oh what have we turned into.

If anyone passes that neck of the woods I’d love a picture please.

 

[island]

The BBC have mandated face coverings for the Strictly audience. Looks a bit odd seeing a bunch of masked people in the background of the routines. The contestants don't have to wear them while the show is live though so I don't get why the audience do if they are keeping their distance. Why one rule for celebs and one rule for the public?

It's my favourite show and I am beyond thrilled it is back but this minor thing is a tad annoying.

Because some brainless journalist will blast them for it otherwise.

 

[Bantamzen]

They are already wearing a label by not wearing a mask in a place where the law requires one to be worn unless exempt. At least with a lanyard or similar, that label is then definitely not "the law doesn't apply to me".

It's really very similar to a Blue Badge, yet people have no issues with that scheme.

Are disabled people encouraged to wear a lanyard or badge everywhere they go?

 

[DB]

Now I wish I had taken a photo of it but they had a sign outside that stated that photocopies or pictures of exemptions were not allowed.

So that indicates that they think there is such a thing as a 'genuine' exemption certificate - which of course there isn't: such a thing doesn't exist.

 

[VauxhallandI]

So that indicates that they think there is such a thing as a 'genuine' exemption certificate - which of course there isn't: such a thing doesn't exist.

I’m really quite confused how they can be so wrong

 

[35B]

The BBC have mandated face coverings for the Strictly audience. Looks a bit odd seeing a bunch of masked people in the background of the routines. The contestants don't have to wear them while the show is live though so I don't get why the audience do if they are keeping their distance. Why one rule for celebs and one rule for the public?

It's my favourite show and I am beyond thrilled it is back but this minor thing is a tad annoying.

The contestants are in bubbles so aren’t considered to need protection from each other.

 

[Howardh]

The BBC have mandated face coverings for the Strictly audience. Looks a bit odd seeing a bunch of masked people in the background of the routines. The contestants don't have to wear them while the show is live though so I don't get why the audience do if they are keeping their distance. Why one rule for celebs and one rule for the public?

It's my favourite show and I am beyond thrilled it is back but this minor thing is a tad annoying.

I don't watch the show so haven't seen this - but isn't there an exception for elete sports and the like (such as professional dancers)? Otherwise we wouldn't be watching football on TV? However if I'm right, they are pairing amateurs with professionals, so that muddies the waters? Are professional theatre groups allowed to perform (without masks)? I've no idea!

 

[35B]

I don't watch the show so haven't seen this - but isn't there an exception for elete sports and the like (such as professional dancers)? Otherwise we wouldn't be watching football on TV? However if I'm right, they are pairing amateurs with professionals, so that muddies the waters? Are professional theatre groups allowed to perform (without masks)? I've no idea!

They’re in bubbles, so treated as though linked.

 

[SamYeager]

The BBC have mandated face coverings for the Strictly audience.

I'm more interested in the fact that an audience is even allowed for Strictly considering that audiences for sporting fixtures taking place outside were recently banned even though the pilots had been successful. One rule for the BBC?

 

[Scotrail12]

I don't watch the show so haven't seen this - but isn't there an exception for elete sports and the like (such as professional dancers)? Otherwise we wouldn't be watching football on TV? However if I'm right, they are pairing amateurs with professionals, so that muddies the waters? Are professional theatre groups allowed to perform (without masks)? I've no idea!

The amateur celebrities are partnered with a professional dancer and they are in a 'bubble' with each other. They have to keep distanced from the rest of the cast.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I'm more interested in the fact that an audience is even allowed for Strictly considering that audiences for sporting fixtures taking place outside were recently banned even though the pilots had been successful. One rule for the BBC?

I would hazard a guess that it is much easier to record (for test & trace purposes) who is attending an indoor TV recording than an outdoor sporting event. Also that it is by invite / pre booked ticket only (rather than simply turn up and pay). Also that the numbers involved are significantly lower and less excitable than for a sporting fixture. For clarity I don't watch the programme, perhaps the audience is jumping up and down, hugging each other and gesticulating at the judges / referees?

 

[lkpridgeon]

I'm having some interesting experiences with airlines right now. It seems to be rather haphazard in how they handle exemptions.

Everyone's 'favourite' airline Ryanair seem to be operating a no exemption policy if over the age of 11 unless you go through multiple levels of disability assistance and provide unspecified evidence as to why you can't wear one. So far I've been unable to get a straight answer for what they're after and how I provide it to them in advance. I just keep getting transferred to a different person and am going around in a loop.

Meanwhile BA seem to be honouring the lanyard scheme however haven't managed to confirm it as they don't seem to offer support on the weekend.

For some of the other airlines I've checked they all have their own slightly different policy.

 

[yorkie]

Everyone's 'favourite' airline Ryanair seem to be operating a no exemption policy if over the age of 11 unless you go through multiple levels of disability assistance and provide unspecified evidence as to why you can't wear one. So far I've been unable to get a straight answer for what they're after and how I provide it to them in advance. I just keep getting transferred to a different person and am going around in a loop.

https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1304400631038464003

We will be advising crew that passengers that have medical issues preventing them from wearing a mas/covering like breathing difficulties, autism, etc, and children under 12 will not have to wear a face mask/covering.

This doesn't suggest any proof is needed.

 

[lkpridgeon]

https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1304400631038464003

This doesn't suggest any proof is needed.

Unfortunately that's not what I've been told by multiple people in customer service and disability assistance. The line I've been told (after much hassle) is you need a GP's letter stating it and the reason why, alongside any relevant supporting documents. This should be sent via an online contact form to them and carried with you in case asked at the airport/onboard. And even then they reserve the right to deny boarding for that reason.

 

[trainophile]

They’re in bubbles, so treated as though linked.

What on earth does that actually mean?

 

[packermac]

I'm having some interesting experiences with airlines right now. It seems to be rather haphazard in how they handle exemptions.

Everyone's 'favourite' airline Ryanair seem to be operating a no exemption policy if over the age of 11 unless you go through multiple levels of disability assistance and provide unspecified evidence as to why you can't wear one. So far I've been unable to get a straight answer for what they're after and how I provide it to them in advance. I just keep getting transferred to a different person and am going around in a loop.

Meanwhile BA seem to be honouring the lanyard scheme however haven't managed to confirm it as they don't seem to offer support on the weekend.

For some of the other airlines I've checked they all have their own slightly different policy.

Although you can not travel to the US at the moment virtually every US airline is no mask no travel. Delta now has over 400 people on a no fly list for refusing to wear a mask. Although you can see a Delta approved Doctor to try to claim an exemption.
Lufthansa will allow passengers to travel if they have a genuine medical need that means a mask cannot be worn. In this case, the passenger’s doctor will be required to sign a form provided by Lufthansa. In addition to the letter, these passengers must obtain a COVID-19 test within 48-hours of their flight.

So yes every airline is different.

 

[yorkie]

What on earth does that actually mean?

If one person gets infected everyone must isolate

 

[SJN]

On Strictly the pro dancer and celeb dancer have formed a bubble so basically not mixing with anyone else. Even the pro dancers married to each other are living apart whilst the show is on. A lot of the celebs are living away from their families too. They are also tested regularly. On show days that sit at a table which is distanced from the others. I presume the audience wear masks as they would in a cinema or theatre.

 

[farleigh]

On Strictly the pro dancer and celeb dancer have formed a bubble so basically not mixing with anyone else. Even the pro dancers married to each other are living apart whilst the show is on. A lot of the celebs are living away from their families too. They are also tested regularly. On show days that sit at a table which is distanced from the others. I presume the audience wear masks as they would in a cinema or theatre.

Meanwhile I work in a school with 1500 11-18 year olds and 120 adults (one adult and about 10 kids wear masks). Are those people in my bubble??

 

[35B]

Meanwhile I work in a school with 1500 11-18 year olds and 120 adults (one adult and about 10 kids wear masks). Are those people in my bubble??

My son is in a bubble with the ~180 pupils in his year, who are permitted to mix freely but kept apart from others. If your school has not clarified the arrangements for you and other staff, I would be rather concerned.

 

[SJN]

Somebody asked about Strictly. As I watch it I could reply. I have no idea about schools. I’m a train conductor and mix with hundreds of strangers a week, not all wearing masks. They’re not in my bubble no. That wasn’t what my post was about though.

 

[Ianno87]

My son is in a bubble with the ~180 pupils in his year, who are permitted to mix freely but kept apart from others. If your school has not clarified the arrangements for you and other staff, I would be rather concerned.

Yes, year group, or half year group, bubbles are the usual practice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2020 ==

Somebody asked about Strictly. As I watch it I could reply. I have no idea about schools. I’m a train conductor and mix with hundreds of strangers a week, not all wearing masks. They’re not in my bubble no. That wasn’t what my post was about though.

Bit you should either be distancing from those strangers (e.g. in the back cab), or otherwise not be in any form of prolonged close contact with any single individual.

 

[Bantamzen]

They’re in bubbles, so treated as though linked.

What on earth does that actually mean?

It means exactly nothing.

 

[island]

More correctly, they have moved to live together for the time being and are therefore treated as being in the same household.

 

[The Ham]

I linked this article elsewhere:

Face masks: what the data say

The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?

www.nature.com

It's a fairly long article which talks about various studies which have been looked at, including one with 3 cages of Hamsters, the middle cage had infected animals the outer two healthy, between one set of healthy animals and the infected set was a barrier of surgical mask material. 2/3rds of the unprotected animals for infected vs 1/4 of the protected animals.

The last paragraph is interesting:

Nevertheless, most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

Whilst make don't provide 100% protection, there's little doubt that they provide some benefit and I'm yet to see anything (other than some may think that they are 100% safe and so take risks that they shouldn't and that certain materials may make the droplets smaller and so could make the spread worse, also referenced in the article) that masks increase the risk. As such the wearing of masks could have benefits but with little increased risk.

Therefore, unless there's something to show that there's an increased risk with mask wearing then chances are (for most, with the provision for those who need to be exempt from mask wearing) that wearing a mask when inside would reduce the risk of transmission.

 

[big_rig]

Some words from that article of interest (I stopped half way through):

messy, confusing, could, hint, if, observational study, indirect evidence, not a slam dunk, hints, caveats, but, nevertheless, anecdotal evidence, builds a picture, pre-print study, not yet peer reviewed, estimated, cautiously suggested, might have averted, pre-print article, assumption, observation studies, hamster, emerging consensus, potentially game changing, suggesting, possible benefit, scientists are still unsure, can’t agree, scientists still don’t know, believe, unpublished work...