What could the future hold for the Conwy line?

[Bletchleyite]

Moderator note: Split from

TFW Rail Services to be taken in house by Welsh Government

Link to story here The Welsh government is poised to nationalise its railways after a fall out on the bailout talks with the current operator, The Telegraph reported today. Ministers are expected to formally announce the transfer of operations to state-owned Transport for Wales on Thursday...

www.railforums.co.uk

If they're going to close the line I hope they tell Network Rail before they spend £millions repairing it after the next flood.

I love the line, but I increasingly think it'd actually provide more value as a Tarmacced cycle route, with the T19 operating hourly "im Takt" using new electric buses with a quality interior, and a new, decent quality "proper" staffed bus station and interchange at Betws (the short stay car park would be a perfect location for it, there's enough parking round the back). And I suspect if it washes away too many more times we might see that.

 

[tomwills98]

I love the line, but I increasingly think it'd actually provide more value as a Tarmacced cycle route, with the T19 operating hourly "im Takt" using new electric buses with a quality interior, and a new, decent quality "proper" staffed bus station and interchange at Betws (the short stay car park would be a perfect location for it, there's enough parking round the back). And I suspect if it washes away too many more times we might see that.

It would be a damn shame to see it go, but if the bus can provide a more reliable and cheaper service through the poor weather then it's a no brainer.

 

[Dai Corner]

I love the line, but I increasingly think it'd actually provide more value as a Tarmacced cycle route, with the T19 operating hourly "im Takt" using new electric buses with a quality interior, and a new, decent quality "proper" staffed bus station and interchange at Betws (the short stay car park would be a perfect location for it, there's enough parking round the back). And I suspect if it washes away too many more times we might see that.

Probably not while NR keep repairing the line at no cost to the WG, but:

There was a debate in the Welsh Parliament on Tuesday about public transport. There is clearly an ambition for WG to have much more control over bus services and treat them as more of a social service for those without cars than a commercial undertaking.

The next logical step is to integrate bus and rail and that should mean inter-urban bus passengers made to use rail for the main part of their journey and rural rail passengers put on the bus to their destination or nearest railhead. Will WG have the will to 'do a Beeching' on its most loss-making lines, particularly if infrastructure is devolved and they have to find the money to fix the Conwy Valley line themselves?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be a damn shame to see it go, but if the bus can provide a more reliable and cheaper service through the poor weather then it's a no brainer.

Looking at a map you could do some good things with the bus, for instance running hourly Llandudno-Betws (maybe even half hourly in the height of summer), but then every other bus going via Pen y Pass for direct access to Snowdon, then Caernarfon, and the other one going via the Ogwen valley giving direct access to the campsites along the A5 plus Tryfan and the rest of the Ogwen Valley and Bethesda, then both on to terminate at Bangor serving both bus and railway station. Blaenau itself could perhaps be a connection from Betws-Blaenau and on to Dolgellau and/or Bala. Wales is really somewhat stymied in terms of developing a useful bus network for the National Park, being stuck between terminally un-innovative Arriva and some small operators which make Arriva look good, as distinct from the excellent network Stagey do for the Lakes despite it mostly being commercial.

I love the Valley (though to be fair I also love a ride over the barren Crimea Pass in a bus - my usual thing is to go train down, bus up) but if you imagine what's been spent on the railway over the past 10 years and apply it to buses, it wouldn't just be whatever old Solo could be dragged out of some disreputable small operator's yard that morning, it'd be world-beating, to use a recently misused phrase.

Convert the line to a tarmacced cycle path and you've got the bonus of an extra activity to do in the area (bringing more tourists in) as well as it being less scary than cycling down the main road (so good for tourists too). To avoid it being washed away, you could bring parts of it down to ground level to allow washover.

 

[Llandudno]

The problem is the Conwy Valley line only has a train roughly every 3 hours, so not much use for anything other than leisure purposes. There is absolutely no bus coordination with the line and no through ticketing.

The line has little, or no marketing and no attractive leisure day returns from Liverpool or Manchester etc.

Essentially the line is a tourist attraction operated in the main by grotty 150s, it needs innovation like the summer loco hauled charter services between Skipton and Appleby.

Howabout in the summer the following loco hauled services
Sun/Tue/Thu
Liverpool-Llandudno-Bleanau-Llandudno-Liverpool


Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat
Manchester-Llandudno-Bleanau-Llandudno-Manchester

Offer day and period returns
Liverpool/Manchester - Llandudno/Blaenau
Llandudno - Blaenau

 

[30907]

The problem is the Conwy Valley line only has a train roughly every 3 hours, so not much use for anything other than leisure purposes. There is absolutely no bus coordination with the line and no through ticketing.

The line has little, or no marketing and no attractive leisure day returns from Liverpool or Manchester etc.

Essentially the line is a tourist attraction operated in the main by grotty 150s, it needs innovation like the summer loco hauled charter services between Skipton and Appleby.

Lovely though the Conwy Valley is, it isn't spectacular like the S and C, it hasn't got a picturesque seaside town like Whitby or Looe or St Ives, and anyway it's a bit too far from big centres of population for days out, so rather relies on holidaymakers.

Packages involving Llechwedd Slate Caverns or the Festiniog might be worth exploring, but otherwise I think good connecting buses at Betws - and even then timetabling a regular interval service is problematic unless journey times can be cut by several minutes. Sorry to be pessimistic but...

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

While there's a lot of merit in the arguments up-page, it's worth recalling that Senedd elections are decided by razor thin margins and that Aberconwy is a critical marginal having been won by Plaid, Labour and the Conservatives since the Assembly was established in 1999. With a Welsh General Election due next May, I don't think anything would be announced before then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lovely though the Conwy Valley is, it isn't spectacular like the S and C

You reckon? Bar one viaduct, I'd say the Conwy Valley is utterly spectacular pretty much throughout. Emerging into the moonscape of Blaenau is unrivalled in the UK. Apart from the tunnel and flooding which kill the idea it'd make a packet as a preserved steam line.

Logic probably does say to shut it and spend the money on a good quality bus service 3 times as frequent, but as far as lines go it really is stunning. I think that's why it's so well-regarded here.

It's certainly day-trippable from Liverpool and Manchester (plenty of people day-trip to Snowdonia from those places all the time, albeit normally by car) and Betws might not have a beach but it is a nice little touristy town to visit, and in normal times the queue of coaches into the coach park shows that off well enough.

I think you do its appeal down a bit to be honest. It doesn't overly help that Blaenau is a bit of a dive, but I could see a Jacobite style steam operation including a ride to Porthmadog on the FfR working - and it does still have a run-around loop to make that doable. You are going to have a job selling it using knackered old 150s (though 196s may do better, at least they have some seats lining up with the windows, or perhaps something quirky like a battery 230?).

 

[S&CLER]

Is there any prospect at all of finding an economically viable use for the millions of tons of slate waste at Blaenau that would involve shipping it out by the trainload? That's the only hope I can see of making the line useful.
I should say that I love the line, having memories of my first trips on Modernisation Plan dmus over it in about 1956 while on holiday. That seemed like the twenty-first century to an 8-year old then. My last trip in a first generation dmu was also on the line, back from Blaenau on a snowy moonlit evening, enjoying the landscape from a seat with view through the rear cab. Wonderful!

 

[Llandudno]

The line is beautiful from Deganwy in the north all the way down to the spooky tunnel and the weird landscape at Blaenau Ffestiniog.

it just needs marketing! But sadly TfW don’t have a commercial bone in their body!

This is also the organisation that charges more for an off peak day return from Llandudno to Chester than from Llandudno to Liverpool. (via Chester, of course!)

 

[tbtc]

Probably not while NR keep repairing the line at no cost to the WG

This is a problem with the current set up - there's complete disconnect between the funding for the DMU to shuttle up and down the valley and the regular sizeable repair bills when nature takes its course - Network Rail must stump up the costs, but the same amount of money could probably buy each resident of the valley a solid gold Optare Solo!

The problem is the Conwy Valley line only has a train roughly every 3 hours, so not much use for anything other than leisure purposes

It would easily have a much better timetable, focussing on a "peak" arrival in Llandudno, which provided a post 09:00 departure up the valley for the leisure market...

...plus a return journey into Llandudno for tourists wanting to be back there in time for tea, for the unit to provide a "commuter" service back up the valley.

That would also mean connections (at the Junction) for Chester/ Bangor etc for the leisure market.

You could utilise the unit on other journeys during the middle of the day too, of course, but the priority ought to be ensuring that there's a good service for Conwy Valley residents to spend the daytime in Llandudno and for "tourists" to spend the day in the countryside.

However, the priority with the timetable seems to be more about "how many trips up and down the valley can we squeeze out of one DMU", rather than "what's the most efficient way of providing a genuinely useful service that will actually meet predictable demand patterns".

Anyone changing the timetable to provide a service more suited to the main two services I've mentioned above would see complaints that there was a significant reduction in the number of services per day (even though it'd be better to have half as many journeys but timed to suit demand, than a box ticking service more focussed on keeping a unit operating all day long to get as many return journeys as possible).

It's certainly day-trippable from Liverpool and Manchester (plenty of people day-trip to Snowdonia from those places all the time, albeit normally by car) and Betws might not have a beach but it is a nice little touristy town to visit, and in normal times the queue of coaches into the coach park shows that off well enough

Rather than getting the crayons out and suggesting some steam or other complication solution, how about running a through service from Manchester/ Liverpool? Through tickets available for passengers so they could leave Manchester/ Liverpool at 09:00ish, travel on a service to Llandudno which then did a return journey up/down the Conwy Valley in the middle of the day, back down to Llandudno again and then return to Manchester/ Liverpool? No additional units required, just a swap of the "branch" DMU with a "main line" DMU - so people could sit on the train all day or maybe have a half hour break at Llandudno in each direction for those wanting to stretch their legs.

Obviously it'd be a lot faster to change at Llandudno Junction but I'm talking about the kind of time-rich leisure market punters who'd be happy to relax on a train all day, and fill seats in the opposite direction to the general flow on the north Wales coast (which is generally eastbound in the morning and westbound in the afternoon).

 

[30907]

Bar one viaduct, I'd say the Conwy Valley is utterly spectacular pretty much throughout. Emerging into the moonscape of Blaenau is unrivalled in the UK.

...Betws ... is a nice little touristy town to visit, and in normal times the queue of coaches into the coach park shows that off well enough.

I have roots in the area and I love the line, don't get me wrong, especially the top section, but I wonder whether it ticks enough boxes for the typical tourist, and I share your views about Blaenau as a town.
Betws is nice, but how long do the coaches stay for I wonder?

Thinking on the idea of a slightly upmarket service up the valley:
start with a basic 2-hourly Llandudno-Betws DMU,
slot in 2 "specials" to Blaenau 4 or 6 hours apart (using North Llanwrst loop, which would I believe require some work) and offer a variety of combined trips from them such as:
Porthmadog FR and back (or Llandudno/Rhyl and back from Porthmadog!)
North Wales Rail Cruise via Bangor-Caernarfon-WHR-FR-Conwy Valley.
etc etc.

Secondary questions, which I don't have answers to:
do you need "ordinary" trains from/to Blaenau morning and evening, or should a bus run on the alternate hours to the Betws train?
what stock do you use for the "specials" and where they originate?

 

[43096]

You reckon? Bar one viaduct, I'd say the Conwy Valley is utterly spectacular pretty much throughout. Emerging into the moonscape of Blaenau is unrivalled in the UK. Apart from the tunnel and flooding which kill the idea it'd make a packet as a preserved steam line.

Logic probably does say to shut it and spend the money on a good quality bus service 3 times as frequent, but as far as lines go it really is stunning. I think that's why it's so well-regarded here.

It's certainly day-trippable from Liverpool and Manchester (plenty of people day-trip to Snowdonia from those places all the time, albeit normally by car) and Betws might not have a beach but it is a nice little touristy town to visit, and in normal times the queue of coaches into the coach park shows that off well enough.

I think you do its appeal down a bit to be honest. It doesn't overly help that Blaenau is a bit of a dive, but I could see a Jacobite style steam operation including a ride to Porthmadog on the FfR working - and it does still have a run-around loop to make that doable. You are going to have a job selling it using knackered old 150s (though 196s may do better, at least they have some seats lining up with the windows, or perhaps something quirky like a battery 230?).

You need to be really, really careful going down the permanent bus replacement route. A bus service can be removed overnight, unlike the railway service. How long did those bus replacements last on routes closed under Beeching?

 

[daodao]

You need to be really, really careful going down the permanent bus replacement route. A bus service can be removed overnight, unlike the railway service. How long did those bus replacements last on routes closed under Beeching?

The other standard gauge line to Blaenau Ffestiniog closed just pre-Beeching and there has not been a bus from there to Bala for many years.

 

[Daniel740]

You need to be really, really careful going down the permanent bus replacement route. A bus service can be removed overnight, unlike the railway service. How long did those bus replacements last on routes closed under Beeching?

As opposed to a service that doesn’t run for at least half the year anyway...

 

[RT4038]

You need to be really, really careful going down the permanent bus replacement route. A bus service can be removed overnight, unlike the railway service. How long did those bus replacements last on routes closed under Beeching?

But surely it would be more cost effective to change the legislative framework for rail replacement buses?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would easily have a much better timetable, focussing on a "peak" arrival in Llandudno, which provided a post 09:00 departure up the valley for the leisure market...

Agreed. It does seem to throw away commuters to retail etc in Llandudno (i.e. arrival around 0830 and leaving to go back around 1730-1745) which would be an easy market to get.

You could utilise the unit on other journeys during the middle of the day too, of course, but the priority ought to be ensuring that there's a good service for Conwy Valley residents to spend the daytime in Llandudno and for "tourists" to spend the day in the countryside.

Yes, again agreed.

The other thing that's needed is a late-evening Friday run and a mid afternoon Sunday one (I think it now has a Sunday service all year? Not having a Sunday service on a tourist route is throwing business away).

It's made a bit difficult by how staff-intensive it is. I think there needs to be investment in the infrastructure (and it wouldn't be that expensive compared with rebuilding every time it rains) to make it operable by a driver and guard alone.

I'm a big proponent of Takt, of course. But I'm not sure 3-Stunden-Takt (a clockface three-hourly service, which it very nearly is) is much use to anyone. I think the usefulness of Takt breaks down when you get below 2-hourly - once it can't be expressed as "ten past the even hour" or similar it loses benefit, and even then it might limit convenience for ideological reasons.

Rather than getting the crayons out and suggesting some steam or other complication solution, how about running a through service from Manchester/ Liverpool? Through tickets available for passengers so they could leave Manchester/ Liverpool at 09:00ish, travel on a service to Llandudno which then did a return journey up/down the Conwy Valley in the middle of the day, back down to Llandudno again and then return to Manchester/ Liverpool? No additional units required, just a swap of the "branch" DMU with a "main line" DMU - so people could sit on the train all day or maybe have a half hour break at Llandudno in each direction for those wanting to stretch their legs.

True. This sort of thing would be made easier by the arrival of the CAF units - as things stand the Manchester/Liverpool services are 175s and the branch a 15x so it can't be done (158 and 175 don't fit).

 

[Bald Rick]

A bus service can be removed overnight, unlike the railway service.

The rail service has been removed, overnight, a number of times over the last decade. Indeed the rails themselves have been removed overnight!

Nothing to stop a bus service being put on the same level of public service obligation as a train.

 

[30907]

Agreed. It does seem to throw away commuters to retail etc in Llandudno (i.e. arrival around 0830 and leaving to go back around 1730-1745) which would be an easy market to get.

The other thing that's needed is a late-evening Friday run and a mid afternoon Sunday one (I think it now has a Sunday service all year? Not having a Sunday service on a tourist route is throwing business away).

Interesting that the X19 does seem to be timed for the Llandudno commuter and complements the train reasonably well.
I don't think the train times are too bad for the leisure market - 1030 off the Junction and back at 1830, I would consult with the FR first before changing them!
The first round trip on the branch is missing from December, which might be the opportunity to retime the present 0726 an hour earlier if there is a potential market (never been on the branch that early!)
Your later Friday trip might best be covered by a Jones bus (minibus?!) to Betws as their depot seems to be in Llanwrst, and the Sunday afternoon train is already in the timetable so presumably might run one day

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your later Friday trip might best be covered by a Jones bus (minibus?!) to Betws as their depot seems to be in Llanwrst, and the Sunday afternoon train is already in the timetable so presumably might run one day

I think the key would be it being in the railway timetable, as people will just type in Betws-y-Coed and see no service and then go by car, they won't research what else there is.

I did wonder who, if anyone, used the very early trip - I guess the answer is "nobody" if it's been lopped, but it's been like that for years.

I'm all for a neat Takt (which it so nearly is), but I just don't see the point at such low frequencies. You'd be better timing it around specific needs. Though one problem is that to do so requires interworking with something, as you ideally want a school train (1545-1600 ish off Llandudno) then a commuter train (just after 1730), and you can't get there and back in time. This used to work when there was a separate Llandudno-Holyhead local it could interwork with, but hasn't since that was lost.

With a single journey taking 1h25 ish so an approximate 3 hour round trip with a 10 minute layover at Blaenau, you could go with the following round trips:

0525 off Llandudno, arriving back 0825 - commuter run
0930 off Llandudno, arriving back 1230 - tourist/walker day out run, with Snowdon Sherpa bus connections to the Ogwen Valley and Snowdon/Llanberis planned to connect with (and waiting for) this one. Useful for shoppers (lunch then a bit of shopping) on the way back up
1415 off Llandudno, arriving back 1715 - lunch-trippers and shoppers back down, those who just wanted to mooch around Betws back up
1600 off Llandudno X19 bus, arriving back 1900 - primarily a school run
1745 off Llandudno, arriving back 2045 - commuters and returning the day walkers back, this one should connect with and wait for the above Snowdon Sherpa bus connections in reverse
2100 off Llandudno X19 bus - evening arrivals to Betws hotels etc, no return service

You can't do both a commuter and school run, but schoolkids are likely to be more tolerant of a bus service than shop workers.

Obviously tweak these if they'd just miss connections at the Junction.

 

[30907]

I think the key would be it being in the railway timetable, as people will just type in Betws-y-Coed and see no service and then go by car, they won't research what else there is.

I did wonder who, if anyone, used the very early trip - I guess the answer is "nobody" if it's been lopped, but it's been like that for years.

1. Agree.
2. The papers or post up the valley, I suspect, so as it was in the 1994 timetable it got specified at privatisation

 

[AndrewE]

It would be a damn shame to see it go, but if the bus can provide a more reliable and cheaper service through the poor weather then it's a no brainer.

It's unusual for a bus to be seen as more weather-resilient than a train...
I think the problem stems from keeping on doing the same thing over and over again: rebuild an embankment and then wait for it (or another bit) to get washed away yet again. It's ludicrous to use the bureaucratic argument that NR is bound to rebuild it "as is" - or a bit stronger. You wonder when sense will prevail and someone will have the bright idea that a different type of structure might work better... We have discussed this before (every time it washes away, probably) but nothing changes.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's unusual for a bus to be seen as more weather-resilient than a train...
I think the problem stems from keeping on doing the same thing over and over again: rebuild an embankment and then wait for it (or another bit) to get washed away yet again. It's ludicrous to use the bureaucratic argument that NR is bound to rebuild it "as is" - or a bit stronger. You wonder when sense will prevail and someone will have the bright idea that a different type of structure might work better... We have discussed this before (every time it washes away, probably) but nothing changes.

Indeed. A different type of structure exists. It’s got tarmac on it and it’s called the A470.

 

[Irascible]

Wonder if it'd be easier to weather-proof as a 2ft gauge line...

 

[stuu]

You need to be really, really careful going down the permanent bus replacement route. A bus service can be removed overnight, unlike the railway service. How long did those bus replacements last on routes closed under Beeching?

The bus from Taunton to Minehead has through-tickets from any UK station, and is listed on the departure board at Taunton station. The line closed almost 50 years ago. Why this can't be replicated everywhere appropriate is absolutely bizarre, the costs involved must be minimal

 

[CBlue]

The bus from Taunton to Minehead has through-tickets from any UK station, and is listed on the departure board at Taunton station. The line closed almost 50 years ago. Why this can't be replicated everywhere appropriate is absolutely bizarre, the costs involved must be minimal

Locally to me in West Anglia the railway line closed 70 years ago, but I have a half-hourly bus service that runs until just after 23:00 7 days a week with reasonably plush leather seated double deckers.

If the railway line still existed, it'd be an hourly service at best and probably have been run with a 156 until recently...even if the bus doesn't accept railway tickets it has certainly surpassed any offer the train could bring without a *lot* of investment and infrastructure upgrades.

 

[Llandudno]

I think the key would be it being in the railway timetable, as people will just type in Betws-y-Coed and see no service and then go by car, they won't research what else there is.

I did wonder who, if anyone, used the very early trip - I guess the answer is "nobody" if it's been lopped, but it's been like that for years.

I'm all for a neat Takt (which it so nearly is), but I just don't see the point at such low frequencies. You'd be better timing it around specific needs. Though one problem is that to do so requires interworking with something, as you ideally want a school train (1545-1600 ish off Llandudno) then a commuter train (just after 1730), and you can't get there and back in time. This used to work when there was a separate Llandudno-Holyhead local it could interwork with, but hasn't since that was lost.

With a single journey taking 1h25 ish so an approximate 3 hour round trip with a 10 minute layover at Blaenau, you could go with the following round trips:

0525 off Llandudno, arriving back 0825 - commuter run
0930 off Llandudno, arriving back 1230 - tourist/walker day out run, with Snowdon Sherpa bus connections to the Ogwen Valley and Snowdon/Llanberis planned to connect with (and waiting for) this one. Useful for shoppers (lunch then a bit of shopping) on the way back up
1415 off Llandudno, arriving back 1715 - lunch-trippers and shoppers back down, those who just wanted to mooch around Betws back up
1600 off Llandudno X19 bus, arriving back 1900 - primarily a school run
1745 off Llandudno, arriving back 2045 - commuters and returning the day walkers back, this one should connect with and wait for the above Snowdon Sherpa bus connections in reverse
2100 off Llandudno X19 bus - evening arrivals to Betws hotels etc, no return service

You can't do both a commuter and school run, but schoolkids are likely to be more tolerant of a bus service than shop workers.

Obviously tweak these if they'd just miss connections at the Junction.

I have a sneaking feeling that in the early 1980s bus/rail tickets may have been interchangeable between Llandudno and Llanrwst/Betws - not 100% sure though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have a sneaking feeling that in the early 1980s bus/rail tickets may have been interchangeable between Llandudno and Llanrwst/Betws - not 100% sure though!

They were in the 90s too. Though as is usual some bus drivers were funny about it.

 

[Llandudno]

I think the key would be it being in the railway timetable, as people will just type in Betws-y-Coed and see no service and then go by car, they won't research what else there is.

I did wonder who, if anyone, used the very early trip - I guess the answer is "nobody" if it's been lopped, but it's been like that for years.

I'm all for a neat Takt (which it so nearly is), but I just don't see the point at such low frequencies. You'd be better timing it around specific needs. Though one problem is that to do so requires interworking with something, as you ideally want a school train (1545-1600 ish off Llandudno) then a commuter train (just after 1730), and you can't get there and back in time. This used to work when there was a separate Llandudno-Holyhead local it could interwork with, but hasn't since that was lost.

With a single journey taking 1h25 ish so an approximate 3 hour round trip with a 10 minute layover at Blaenau, you could go with the following round trips:

0525 off Llandudno, arriving back 0825 - commuter run
0930 off Llandudno, arriving back 1230 - tourist/walker day out run, with Snowdon Sherpa bus connections to the Ogwen Valley and Snowdon/Llanberis planned to connect with (and waiting for) this one. Useful for shoppers (lunch then a bit of shopping) on the way back up
1415 off Llandudno, arriving back 1715 - lunch-trippers and shoppers back down, those who just wanted to mooch around Betws back up
1600 off Llandudno X19 bus, arriving back 1900 - primarily a school run
1745 off Llandudno, arriving back 2045 - commuters and returning the day walkers back, this one should connect with and wait for the above Snowdon Sherpa bus connections in reverse
2100 off Llandudno X19 bus - evening arrivals to Betws hotels etc, no return service

You can't do both a commuter and school run, but schoolkids are likely to be more tolerant of a bus service than shop workers.

Obviously tweak these if they'd just miss connections at the Junction.

Quite like your thought process, would this work:

Train: One unit operated
Every two hours Junction to Bleanau Ffestiniog and return calling only at:
Tal-y-Cafn, Llanrwst, Betws, Dolwyddelan and Blaenau

Bus: Two vehicles, Traws Cymru Connect
Llandudno, Deganwy, Llandudno Junction then via A470 to Blaenau Ffestiniog

The missing rail stations are served by the bus, perhaps the first and last train may have to stop at the stations to avoid closure procedures!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite like your thought process, would this work:

Train: One unit operated
Every two hours Junction to Bleanau Ffestiniog and return calling only at:
Tal-y-Cafn, Llanrwst, Betws, Dolwyddelan and Blaenau

Bus: Two vehicles, Traws Cymru Connect
Llandudno, Deganwy, Llandudno Junction then via A470 to Blaenau Ffestiniog

The missing rail stations are served by the bus, perhaps the first and last train may have to stop at the stations to avoid closure procedures!

Given that the small stations are request stops anyway, I doubt it would. I know they tried to do Junction-Blaenau 2 hourly with a single unit in the 90s some time and it failed as the turnarounds were too tight.