UK face coverings discussion

[VauxhallandI]

Went into M&S Food an hour or so ago on my way past. Challenged by woman on the door:
"have you got a mask"
"I am exempt"
"have you got any proof"

At which point, I informed her that there is no requirement for proof, and walked out and went to Tesco instead. I've just contacted M&S customer services via their online chat and they have assured me that this isn't a new company policy and it won't happen again. We shall see I guess.

Well done. I would have been tempted to ask for the store manager too

 

[bramling]

Well done. I would have been tempted to ask for the store manager too

I think it’s very important this sort of thing is called out, even if it’s done via a tweet or email to the chain concerned. Obviously there’s not much which can readily be done for independent businesses apart from choosing not to patronise them.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Disney even expects five year olds to wear masks. I won't be going there again until they relax that rule.

They really are a Mickey Mouse company, with a Goofy policy

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2020 ==

I was on a York to London LNER service yesterday and a lady announced that anyone not wearing a mask or not wearing it correctly WILL be fined £100. How she was going to do that was beyond me as she did not appear to even walk through the train.

I would have shown her the relevant section of the legislation (saved as a bookmark on my phone) and followed up with naming and shaming LNER on social media if I’d been approached after an announcement like that. This bs really must be challenged at every instance

 

[Scott W]

I think it’s very important this sort of thing is called out, even if it’s done via a tweet or email to the chain concerned. Obviously there’s not much which can readily be done for independent businesses apart from choosing not to patronise them.

Yes agree, was on a EMR service last week with constant announcements about requiring a face covering exemption certificate, sent a recording to the Twitter team, who were keen to get the service details to follow up on...

 

[bramling]

I would have shown her the relevant section of the legislation (saved as a bookmark on my phone) and followed up with naming and shaming LNER on social media if I’d been approached after an announcement like that. This bs really must be challenged at every instance

Cressida’s shaming can work both ways.

It’s time we all fought back on this, these staff must surely know what the position is, and absolutely should not be making up their own policies.

I’ve said before that I’m glad at the moment my local rail service is DOO, I made 11 maskless journeys last week with no issues at all.

 

[DB]

these staff must surely know what the position is, and absolutely should not be making up their own policies.

And the TOCs should be clamping down on it and giving them mandatory scripts to use for the announcements. The fact that these cases are still being reported suggests that some of them at least are ignoring it and letting individual staff do what they want.

 

[trainophile]

What is the general view of mask exempt staff in front of house food establishments? Our dinners were brought by someone with a lanyard last night, obviously no social distancing possible, and when he came back to collect the plates he leant right across me les than a foot from my face, while saying “you’re very welcome”. Although I don’t agree with masks in all situations that did make me feel a bit uneasy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What is the general view of mask exempt staff in front of house food establishments? Our dinners were brought by someone with a lanyard last night, obviously no social distancing possible, and when he came back to collect the plates he leant right across me les than a foot from my face, while saying “you’re very welcome”. Although I don’t agree with masks in all situations that did make me feel a bit uneasy.

I'd suggest that if someone is exempt they ideally need to 2m distance from others, so may need to be placed in a slightly different role for the moment.

Perhaps in this case it'd make sense for him to ask people to pass him the plates? The problem is then avoided and he can keep the same role.

 

[DB]

What is the general view of mask exempt staff in front of house food establishments? Our dinners were brought by someone with a lanyard last night, obviously no social distancing possible, and when he came back to collect the plates he leant right across me les than a foot from my face, while saying “you’re very welcome”. Although I don’t agree with masks in all situations that did make me feel a bit uneasy.

I suspect many of us who don't think masks are effective really don't care - if they can't wear a mask, that's fine.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

What is the general view of mask exempt staff in front of house food establishments? Our dinners were brought by someone with a lanyard last night, obviously no social distancing possible, and when he came back to collect the plates he leant right across me les than a foot from my face, while saying “you’re very welcome”. Although I don’t agree with masks in all situations that did make me feel a bit uneasy.

This is exactly the climate of fear the constant bombardment of announcements, mainstream media coverage, signs and face-coverings has created.
As little as 8 months ago, such a simple interaction would have passed without any such thoughts (even though of course the person could have had some other, minor, contagious condition).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect many of us who don't think masks are effective really don't care - if they can't wear a mask, that's fine.

I'm sure that is your view. But for those who think they are effective in some form, it's an issue. And because the Government does...

 

[DB]

I'm sure that is your view. But for those who think they are effective in some form, it's an issue. And because the Government does...

If people are exempt, then they are exempt. You may not like it but that's how it is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If people are exempt, then they are exempt. You may not like it but that's how it is.

It doesn't absolve them of taking responsibility to minimise spread, taking into account their exemption. Those who are exempt and others around them should be careful to maintain 2m distancing as a substitute, as 1m+ cannot apply.

In this case, the waiter should have asked people to pass plates to him and not leant over people. TBH, even with a mask waiters should avoid leaning over people at present.

 

[Huntergreed]

If people are exempt, then they are exempt. You may not like it but that's how it is.

Precisely. I have a friend who was unable to get a taxi to the hospital for a (relatively) important appointment, and thus missed the appointment, because the driver of her taxi wouldn't take her without a mask even though she was exempt. She was told 'We all have to do things we don't like'.

It's disgusting and a complaint has been made.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Precisely. I have a friend who was unable to get a taxi to the hospital for a (relatively) important appointment, and thus missed the appointment, because the driver of her taxi wouldn't take her without a mask even though she was exempt. She was told 'We all have to do things we don't like'.

It's disgusting and a complaint has been made.

That's very different from asking a waiter to consider distancing in how he does his job. A taxi driver might reasonably ask someone who can't wear a mask to sit as far as the car allows from him, i.e. on the back seat on the nearside.

 

[MikeWM]

What is the general view of mask exempt staff in front of house food establishments? Our dinners were brought by someone with a lanyard last night, obviously no social distancing possible, and when he came back to collect the plates he leant right across me les than a foot from my face, while saying “you’re very welcome”. Although I don’t agree with masks in all situations that did make me feel a bit uneasy.

Given the complete lack of correct hygiene practices that can be observed of the vast majority of those wearing masks, I'd suggest the chances are that this is probably 'safer' than a masked server.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the complete lack of correct hygiene practices that can be observed of the vast majority of those wearing masks, I'd suggest the chances are that this is probably 'safer' than a masked server.

This all depends on how much contact transmission is going on, but yes, it's possible a masked waiter (I don't personally like the term "server", it's a bit of an Americanism and suggests a bit much deference to me, not to mention that it's also a term for a piece of IT equipment) would be more likely to have some nice COVID on their hands (and so on your plate) than an unmasked one.

However, really, nobody in a restaurant should be leaning over customers at present, mask or no, they should be modifying their practices to avoid that, e.g. asking people to pass used plates over. Not least because, regardless of the staff, the customers pretty certainly won't be masked at the table.

 

[Bantamzen]

What is the general view of mask exempt staff in front of house food establishments? Our dinners were brought by someone with a lanyard last night, obviously no social distancing possible, and when he came back to collect the plates he leant right across me les than a foot from my face, while saying “you’re very welcome”. Although I don’t agree with masks in all situations that did make me feel a bit uneasy.

If he was exempt, he was exempt. Perhaps he could have asked for you to pass your plate, or perhaps you could have offered it? Either way situations like this will exist until the mandate is removed.

 

[big_rig]

To be on the safe side maybe they (exempt workers who cannot otherwise be redeployed, or maybe they should be at home doing nothing on full pay to satisfy the most fearful) should use litter pickers to collect plates from an appropriate distance. Goodness me! Anyway, back in the real world..

 

[trainophile]

It was one of those high round tables where you sit on bar height chairs, which is why he got so close. Was the only table we could find on arrival, although we prefer normal height ones.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I poured a small amount of H2O2 onto it (aka hydrogen peroxide) at 3% strength. The wetted area fizzed away nicely, indicating the presence of pathogens on the fabric (it is the oxidisation of these pathogens which causes the fizzing for those not familiar!). I've obviously no idea what kind of pathogens were being destroyed, it could have been any kind of virus, bacteria, fungi etc. but they were present. As I'm writing this I've conducted the same test on the freshly laundered mask and there was no reaction so at least the washing machine did it's job.

End of science lesson!

As most people wearing masks constantly re-use them, this is a powerful argument in my book against wearing them, unless you carry copious supplies of fresh ones

 

[greyman42]

It doesn't absolve them of taking responsibility to minimise spread, taking into account their exemption. Those who are exempt and others around them should be careful to maintain 2m distancing as a substitute, as 1m+ cannot apply.

In this case, the waiter should have asked people to pass plates to him and not leant over people. TBH, even with a mask waiters should avoid leaning over people at present.

Anyone who is this paranoid about people wearing masks should simply eat at home and avoid getting themselves in a state.

 

[DustyBin]

As most people wearing masks constantly re-use them, this is a powerful argument in my book against wearing them, unless you carry copious supplies of fresh ones

Yes, several of us have made the point repeatedly that in the real world they are very likely doing more harm than good. People are wearing the wrong type, aren't practising good hygiene and are no longer social distancing. I'm not interested in how N95's perform in a medical setting, I'm interested in how filthy pieces of cloth perform in a community setting, which is where the evidence purporting the wearing of masks falls down.

 

[43066]

Precisely. I have a friend who was unable to get a taxi to the hospital for a (relatively) important appointment, and thus missed the appointment, because the driver of her taxi wouldn't take her without a mask even though she was exempt. She was told 'We all have to do things we don't like'.

It's disgusting and a complaint has been made.

That’s surprising. I’ve used Uber several times since masks were mandated. Only on one occasion have I been challenged (to which I simply explained I’m exempt). By all accounts the drivers are desperate for money at the moment so I’m very surprised a taxi driver of all people is taking that approach.

 

[james_the_xv]

Precisely. I have a friend who was unable to get a taxi to the hospital for a (relatively) important appointment, and thus missed the appointment, because the driver of her taxi wouldn't take her without a mask even though she was exempt. She was told 'We all have to do things we don't like'.

It's disgusting and a complaint has been made.

I'll take this from a different angle, do you expect someone to feel completely safe being in close proximity to someone they don't know for an extended period of time who isn't wearing a mask? When booking was the company made aware of said exemption?

Of course DavidB is right, exemption is an exemption but at the same time you cannot expect to be treated as if you're immune to COVID. If I were in that situation I'd have made sure the taxi company knew in advance, so they could dispatch a driver who a) was comfortable carrying said passenger given the circumstances and/or b) was happy to take other reasonable precautions to minimize risk.

You can't automatically expect people to feel safe being in close proximity just because you have an exemption.

 

[43066]

I'll take this from a different angle, do you expect someone to feel completely safe being in close proximity to someone they don't know for an extended period of time who isn't wearing a mask? When booking was the company made aware of said exemption?

Of course DavidB is right, exemption is an exemption but at the same time you cannot expect to be treated as if you're immune to COVID. If I were in that situation I'd have made sure the taxi company knew in advance, so they could dispatch a driver who a) was comfortable carrying said passenger given the circumstances and/or b) was happy to take other reasonable precautions to minimize risk.

You can't automatically expect people to feel safe being in close proximity just because you have an exemption.

It’s tough luck.

If drivers are that worried they can fit Perspex screens into the cars they are driving.

 

[james_the_xv]

It’s tough luck.

If drivers are that worried they can fit Perspex screens into the cars they are driving.

I think calling it tough luck is maybe a tad callous, we are talking about the safety of a human being regardless of how it was dealt with on the day, there are many number of reason why the driver may have felt unsafe taking a passenger without a mask. While yes having a screen would be ideal they do cost money and as said before the taxi sector has been hit hard by COVID.

I'm not saying either are right or wrong, just that maybe a bit more communication may have prevented the situation entirely.

 

[DB]

I think calling it tough luck is maybe a tad callous, we are talking about the safety of a human being regardless of how it was dealt with on the day, there are many number of reason why the driver may have felt unsafe taking a passenger without a mask. While yes having a screen would be ideal they do cost money and as said before the taxi sector has been hit hard by COVID.

I'm not saying either are right or wrong, just that maybe a bit more communication may have prevented the situation entirely.

Perspex screens are not particularly expensive. Depends on the type of taxi, but those purpose-built tend to have a screen between the driver and the passengers anyway.

 

[43066]

I think calling it tough luck is maybe a tad callous, we are talking about the safety of a human being regardless of how it was dealt with on the day, there are many number of reason why the driver may have felt unsafe taking a passenger without a mask. While yes having a screen would be ideal they do cost money and as said before the taxi sector has been hit hard by COVID.

I'm not saying either are right or wrong, just that maybe a bit more communication may have prevented the situation entirely.

Come to think of it I did mention my exemption once when booking an Uber under pick up notes. The allocated driver promptly cancelled! As such I now don’t mention it in advance. That hasn’t ever caused an issue, in fact the majority of drivers take their own mask off once they can see I’m not bothered.

As I see it my right to use the service as someone who is exempt trumps their paranoia. Frankly anyone who isn’t aware that the evidence in favour of masks is extremely weak isn’t deserving of much sympathy. If they’re that worried they’d fit a screen, or simply find another job.

The above might sound harsh by my patience with this whole situation is wearing thin.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Were they bothered about carrying mask-less passengers pre-mandate, or even more-so in Feburary and March when the virus was extremely prevalent?