GBRf Agrees Deal for Five New Class 66 Locos

[xotGD]

If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.

It is the super-modern clean Class 70s that seem to produce the dirtiest exhaust these days. Not EE's finest.

 

[Richard Scott]

It is the super-modern clean Class 70s that seem to produce the dirtiest exhaust these days. Not EE's finest.

Know it's getting off topic but thought class 20s were used in channel tunnel build due to low particulate emissions? Did I make that up or is it true?

 

[Grumpy Git]

Surely the "elephant in the room" here is why when I travel to/from Liverpool to Euston are 100% of the freight trains I see diesel hauled?

A good (read "bad") example being the delivery from Dollands Moor to Kirkdale of the new 777's. I'd say 99% of the route is 25kV wired, yet a 66 is always on the front which is completely ludicrous.

 

[ExRes]

Surely the "elephant in the room" here is why when I travel to/from Liverpool to Euston are 100% of the freight trains I see diesel hauled?

A good (read "bad") example being the delivery from Dollands Moor to Kirkdale of the new 777's. I'd say 99% of the route is 25kV wired, yet a 66 is always on the front which is completely ludicrous.

I can't remember who's delivering the 777s so unsure of traction options, but it would require a loco change from DC to AC to use electric

 

[Grumpy Git]

I can't remember who's delivering the 777s so unsure of traction options, but it would require a loco change from DC to AC to use electric

Why not put a diesel on at Edge Lane for the last coupke of miles but use a 25kV loco for the preceding 250 odd?

 

[xotGD]

Why not put a diesel on at Edge Lane for the last coupke of miles but use a 25kV loco for the preceding 250 odd?

£££££

 

[Domh245]

GBRF are doing that delivery, so if electric it'd be a 92 on the front. Not that there's many spare, and those which are spare are sensibly concentrated on 100% electric flows to avoid the chopping and changing. You'd also be wrong about the 99% of the route being 25kV, as it's 3rd rail from Dollands to Shepherds Bush which I'm not sure that the GBRf 92s still have capability for.

 

[Phil G]

Building new locos to replace perfectly good older ones would create far more emissions than the excess emissions the 66 would generate in service.

 

[PG]

For a start, the Thameslink tunnels, Finsbury Park-Moorgate and the Mersey loop, I understand (have the rules changed?). It's notable that all those are tunnelled areas, though 31s, 73s and 20s are permitted through Thameslink so it's not (just) an exhaust thing.

Surely a 73 going through the Thameslink tunnel would be running on the 3rd rail anyway (unless the juice was off)?

 

[172345]

I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

What you are forgetting is many of GBRF class 66s are less than 10 years old. The 66s are extremely reliable and are ideal for this country.
Also these locos are needed today. By the time new locos are designed, produced, tested, driver's trained and introduced into service you are talking years. They need need them now!

 

[ExRes]

Surely a 73 going through the Thameslink tunnel would be running on the 3rd rail anyway (unless the juice was off)?

Unless things have changed since I last went through that route the 3rd rail ends/finishes at Farringdon

 

[rebmcr]

Surely a 73 going through the Thameslink tunnel would be running on the 3rd rail anyway (unless the juice was off)?

Unless things have changed since I last went through that route the 3rd rail ends/finishes at Farringdon

Plus, one of the reasons a 73 might have to be there is to haul an engineering train during an isolated possession.

 

[Rick1984]

I notice air conditioning being fitted. I seem to recall this previously wasn't possible in UK for to restrictive gauge. I take it they've come up with a solution?

 

[Tom Quinne]

I can't remember who's delivering the 777s so unsure of traction options, but it would require a loco change from DC to AC to use electric

GB are the traction provider, however even with 92 haulage they’d need multiple locomotives.

The 92 fleet as a whole across DB and GB are assigned to:
Tunnel Only.
HS1 / Tunnel only.
Network rail only with route restrictions.
Dellner couplers.

I think only DB have 92s which can work through the tunnel, GB have some which work on HS1, but not NWR.

All in all it’s just easier to stick a 66 on the front, you’ve only got to worry about drivers then.

If you wanted be really eco friendly, you could have a 92 of different flavours from Europe to the a convenient place close to Merseyrail, then plug a 73 onto the stock for the last few miles to the depot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2020 ==

Surely the "elephant in the room" here is why when I travel to/from Liverpool to Euston are 100% of the freight trains I see diesel hauled?

A good (read "bad") example being the delivery from Dollands Moor to Kirkdale of the new 777's. I'd say 99% of the route is 25kV wired, yet a 66 is always on the front which is completely ludicrous.

Until the short Acton to Willesden section is wired South Wales to East Anglia freightlines will remain 66 hauled as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2020 ==

Surely a 73 going through the Thameslink tunnel would be running on the 3rd rail anyway (unless the juice was off)?

Its more about RA than emissions, a 66 is RA 8 vice a 73/31 and some 37s being RA 5.
Hence why when GB had a big job on the Thameslink core some years ago they flooded the job with 73s.

 

[43096]

GB are the traction provider, however even with 92 haulage they’d need multiple locomotives.

The 92 fleet as a whole across DB and GB are assigned to:
Tunnel Only.
HS1 / Tunnel only.
Network rail only with route restrictions.
Dellner couplers.

I think only DB have 92s which can work through the tunnel, GB have some which work on HS1, but not NWR.

GBRf have 92s that can and do work through the tunnel; indeed they have on occasions hired them to DB Cargo when they are short.

GBRf's Class 92 fleet is assigned to four pools which give a good idea of their operating capabilities/restrictions:
GBCT - tunnel. Able to work on NR and Channel Tunnel but not modified for Mark 5s (032/044)
GBSL - sleeper. Not capable of working through the tunnel, can work on NR, fitted with Dellners and other mods for Mark 5s (006/014/020/023/033)
GBST - sleeper & tunnel. (010/018/028/038/043)
GBSD - stored (021/040/045/046)

In practice, the GBSL and GBST locos are almost exclusively deployed on the sleeper trains, this needing 7 locos every night.