Some customers can be so rude

[455driver]

Perhaps if you suggested to the people who you are asking to move ( and maybe they may now have to stand) that they could sit in First Class for their inconveniance, you may get less grumbling and moaning.

Why should they be allowed to sit in first? If they held a standard ticket then they travel in standard, seated or not!
Honestly some people :roll:

 

[jon0844]

Room for luggage and other large items are just as important as seats. Far better to consider those seats as only being available when there's nobody else on the train. If marked as such, there might be luss grumbling and moaning - and less looks of death at the poor person silly enough to think they could take a bag on a train.

Take the (current) Met Line trains where you have fold down seats by the end doors. Nobody would surely think to use them if the train is crowded? If they did, they'd have plenty of angry commuters asking them to move.

Nobody seems to have any courtesy anymore.

 

[thefab444]

That would just encourage more people to sit there because they know they'll get an upgrade to FC!

 

[Aictos]

I picked up the 1042 TPE Express service to Sheffield from Doncaster on Saturday instead of the 1023 Northern Stopping service which the guard apologised was usually a 4 car train but because of the signalling problems at Manchester earlier, it had to run as a 2 car so the guard stated that for passengers wanting Meadowhall to not board as there was a service right behind us.

Full credit to the guard who dealt with the overcrowding as best as he could.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Why should they be allowed to sit in first? If they held a standard ticket then they travel in standard, seated or not!
Honestly some people :roll:

And I say WHY NOT? Honestly some rail workers! :roll:
What harm could be done by such an action? I suggest none.
And what good? Customer satisfaction maybe. Someones day would have been made better at no cost at all.
The alternative was "grumbling and moaning". If you think that then has been a satisfactory outcome then I feel sorry for you

I can only assume you, or anyone you know, have never been upgraded to when flying. The good feelings that are created by such an action are passed on by word of mouth. Many times.

If a seat was empty in First Class and a guard was asking some-one to vacate a seat in standard, it makes perfect sense to offer that passenger the empty seat.

 

[Geezertronic]

It's a bit different to the airline industry to be fair, and if you did do what you say you'd be setting a standard meaning that people could cotton on and sit there expecting to get upgraded to First Class for free when asked to move. From my point of view, if you did sit in one of these seats, you take the chance of being asked to move

At least on the airlines you have the chance of getting upgraded due to the fact that they overbook standard.

 

[222007]

And I say WHY NOT? Honestly some rail workers! :roll:
What harm could be done by such an action? I suggest none.
And what good? Customer satisfaction maybe. Someones day would have been made better at no cost at all.
The alternative was "grumbling and moaning". If you think that then has been a satisfactory outcome then I feel sorry for you

If a seat was empty in First Class and a guard was asking some-one to vacate a seat in standard, it makes perfect sense to offer that passenger the empty seat.

Ok lets put it this way would you go into say tesco want there value Ham but because there wasnt any you pay the lower price and pick up the finiest ham? If the answer is no why should people on the railway pay stadanrd and expect first class. May i suggest you grab a cope of the national conditions of carraige and give it a read? It states nowhere that you actually pay for a seat.


Also have you ever thought why us 'rail workers' do not aloud people the free upgrade? Maybe there is a manager (with his first class pass) sat there? Maybe there is a passenger who paid hundreds of pounds for his first class ticket? Maybe we are just doing our job correctly and believe me there plenty of passengers who will report us for not doing it right

 

[jon0844]

I've been on short formed trains where the driver has declassified the first class section and I'd say that this is acceptable. Anyone who has paid for a FC ticket may be upset if they can't then get a seat, and should be able to seek a (partial) refund - which should be accepted readily. Everyone should be happy.

You can't just upgrade people because they didn't get a seat.

People already upgrade themselves, even when there ARE seats in standard but it might mean sitting next to someone else. Once, I - stupidly - got involved in an argument between an RPI and passenger. I know I shouldn't, and I probably hadn't helped the RPI as it inflamed the situation slightly (I was, quite rightly, told that it was none of my business) - but I couldn't resist jumping in to point out to the passenger, that said that there were no seats, that there were in fact seats throughout the train (I'd walked through) and especially at the 'country' end. There were probably at least 5-10 seats in each carriage, but I guess if he'd wanted four seats to himself with a table then perhaps he did deserve to go in first class!

I know now to keep out, but I am sure staff have to deal with this all the time. It would be good if a guard/TM/RPI walked the person through the train to find these people seats before issuing the penalty. Sadly many just give a 'warning' and that clearly means that that person will continue to do it.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Ok lets put it this way would you go into say tesco want there value Ham but because there wasnt any you pay the lower price and pick up the finiest ham? If the answer is no why should people on the railway pay stadanrd and expect first class. May i suggest you grab a cope of the national conditions of carraige and give it a read? It states nowhere that you actually pay for a seat.


Also have you ever thought why us 'rail workers' do not aloud people the free upgrade? Maybe there is a manager (with his first class pass) sat there? Maybe there is a passenger who paid hundreds of pounds for his first class ticket? Maybe we are just doing our job correctly and believe me there plenty of passengers who will report us for not doing it right

The Tesco analogy. That wouldn't be a "no cost" alternative so you are not comparing like with like.
No-one is suggesting that "people on railway pay standard and expect first class". Just that maybe, in certain circumstances, an upgrade MAY improve the situation in relation to goodwill. How can that be a bad thing?
Remember the OP in this thread was commenting on rudeness in some passengers, then we got KWVR's post seeming to revel in the fact he/she had caused grumbling/moaning. (That is the way the post read to me KWVR, and if that is not the case, I apologise)
All I was suggesting was, in the case mentioned, taking the seat off the passenger (WHO HAS PAID) to make room for luggage or a bicycle (WHICH HAS NOT) is bound to cause a grievance. If you cannot see that, a job dealing with the public is perhaps not for you.

The manager in First Class? Maybe he should applaud the guard in allowing an upgrade, after all, he is a manager in a business he should want to do better surely. The moved passenger may be less likely to use the railways in future. You can just hear the alternative conversations "down the pub" can't you?

"I had got a perfect seat, close to the doors, and this arsey guard made me stand up all the way from Manchester to Leeds, just for some suitcases, what a *****"

or

"I had got a perfect seat, close to the doors, but because there was too much luggage on the train, he moved me into First Class. It's pretty good in there, and I may look into using it again."

I have a copy of the NCOC thankyou, and I have read it from cover to cover several times and, whilst agreeing with you about the seat, I don't think upgrading at the discretion of the guard is forbidden.

The "railworkers" quip was a reposte to the "some people" idiocy in the post to which I was replying.

The passenger in First Class who has paid hundreds of pounds . . ?
Do they realise that I may be sat in First Class with them, with my Advance ticket, having paid far less than them and many Standard tickets holders too. So again, not really a reason for not upgrading.

Your final point about passengers "who report us for not doing it right".
I am sure you are correct. But you would have done nothing wrong would you? There are also passengers who will praise you and write to companies if you go beyond "just doing it correctly". Just see the other thread "Thank You Northern Staff"

 

[222007]

I know now to keep out, but I am sure staff have to deal with this all the time. It would be good if a guard/TM/RPI walked the person through the train to find these people seats before issuing the penalty. Sadly many just give a 'warning' and that clearly means that that person will continue to do it.

What i have done in the past is walked through first class seeing it full (it was at the rear of the train) right to the front where i counted 45 out of 60 seats were free and in the middle coach there was 25 free seats a grand total of 70 free seats. so i went back to first class (checking tickets as i headed back) and checked all passengers surprise surprise all 9 passengers had standard tickets and all claimed to have walked through the whole train and there were no free seats when i informed them that there was 70 seats free in the front 2 coaches i was accused of lying to them.

The problem is people just dont want to walk through the train to get to a seat. We have one regular passenger who ALWAYS abuses staff who move him out of first. Its a running battle to the point now as revenue staff we have been told to take firther action against the said gent. The thing is he is always the first person on the train and goes stright into first class - is this acceptable? I now often stand in the doorway of first class checking people's tickets if they want to go in - i also tell people as there getting on how many carraiges are on the service and suggest walking down the platform towards the front

 

[jon0844]

Someone people have a very odd idea of what a full train is! A lot of people voluntarily stand* (for whatever reason) when there are seats, and it may look busier than it is. However, that's no reason to simply upgrade yourself.

* I know two people - one male and one female - that always stand. One always used to stand by the toilet and read his book, every day without fail (and maybe still does, but I take a different train), while the lady always stands in the vestibule. No exceptions. I don't know why, but it's obviously up to them.

And, while I don't do it often, I sometimes voluntarily stand. If I'm going to make a call, I'll stand by the doors out of courtesy. Sometimes it's actually quite nice to stand up and walk around a bit - especially if I've been sat on my backside ALL day in the office and not even had a lunch break!

I'm yet to upgrade myself to first class - although if they declassify it, then stand aside..!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The Tesco analogy. That wouldn't be a "no cost" alternative so you are not comparing like with like.
No-one is suggesting that "people on railway pay standard and expect first class". Just that maybe, in certain circumstances, an upgrade MAY improve the situation in relation to goodwill. How can that be a bad thing?
Remember the OP in this thread was commenting on rudeness in some passengers, then we got KWVR's post seeming to revel in the fact he/she had caused grumbling/moaning. (That is the way the post read to me KWVR, and if that is not the case, I apologise)
All I was suggesting was, in the case mentioned, taking the seat off the passenger (WHO HAS PAID) to make room for luggage or a bicycle (WHICH HAS NOT) is bound to cause a grievance. If you cannot see that, a job dealing with the public is perhaps not for you.

The manager in First Class? Maybe he should applaud the guard in allowing an upgrade, after all, he is a manager in a business he should want to do better surely. The moved passenger may be less likely to use the railways in future. You can just hear the alternative conversations "down the pub" can't you?

"I had got a perfect seat, close to the doors, and this arsey guard made me stand up all the way from Manchester to Leeds, just for some suitcases, what a *****"

or

"I had got a perfect seat, close to the doors, but because there was too much luggage on the train, he moved me into First Class. It's pretty good in there, and I may look into using it again."

I have a copy of the NCOC thankyou, and I have read it from cover to cover several times and, whilst agreeing with you about the seat, I don't think upgrading at the discretion of the guard is forbidden.

The "railworkers" quip was a reposte to the "some people" idiocy in the post to which I was replying.

The passenger in First Class who has paid hundreds of pounds . . ?
Do they realise that I may be sat in First Class with them, with my Advance ticket, having paid far less than them and many Standard tickets holders too. So again, not really a reason for not upgrading.

Your final point about passengers "who report us for not doing it right".
I am sure you are correct. But you would have done nothing wrong would you? There are also passengers who will praise you and write to companies if you go beyond "just doing it correctly". Just see the other thread "Thank You Northern Staff"

I can safely assure you I was not revelling in causing folk to moan and grumble, merely I was trying to point out that if folk choose to sit in the luggage / bike / wheelchair area on the fold down seats, right next to a sign which says that the seats are only available when the area is not required as storage space, then they do not really have grounds to grumble and moan when they are asked to vacate those seats so a large item can be put safely out of harms way.

 

[Greenback]

I can safely assure you I was not revelling in causing folk to moan and grumble, merely I was trying to point out that if folk choose to sit in the luggage / bike / wheelchair area on the fold down seats, right next to a sign which says that the seats are only available when the area is not required as storage space, then they do not really have grounds to grumble and moan when they are asked to vacate those seats so a large item can be put safely out of harms way.

Quite right too. People should remember when choosing to sit in these sorts of seat that they may have to move. Just as if you take a chance and sit in a seat that is reserved later in the journey - the passenger may not show up, but if they do you have to give up your seat. Should Ie xpect a ride in First Class then?

 

[reb0118]

Luggage causes problems in vestibules quite a lot. It seems to be worst around the beginnings/ends of university terms and the summer holidays. HSTs have nice, big racks at both ends of the coaches and plenty of space in the guard's compartment, Electras are even better with the DVT, but some people don't seem to know how to use them. Most of the time, I put my trunk in the van (especially when going to Aberdeen, the train terminates there) but I suppose quite a few people suspect that they won't have time to collect it. Fair enough, but so many either put their cases in the racks flat instead of side-on (taking up a whole shelf) or just dump the thing in the vestibule and ignore it. That's a nightmare at Darlo, where the door is on the other side. I often find myself asking them if it's OK to move it. 50% say "thank you", about 25% aren't bothered, 15% ignore you and 10% get annoyed. Yes, I'm an interfering busybody, but I point out to them that it's not just an nuisance, it's in the way for people getting off, blocks staff access and the trolley, and very dangerous if the train catches fire. I fail to understand why they can't do something sensible and considerate. On my last run, the guard made an announcement to say that anything in the vestibules would be moved to the van at Waverley. People still got annoyed. Whatever happened to 'Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself'?

You are a man after my own heart. I've had two fires onboard my trains and therefore know the importance of keeping exits clear. What right do these people have to block emergency exits. I think all train doors should be marked as such.

 

[MCR247]

And I say WHY NOT? Honestly some rail workers! :roll:
What harm could be done by such an action? I suggest none.
And what good? Customer satisfaction maybe. Someones day would have been made better at no cost at all.
The alternative was "grumbling and moaning". If you think that then has been a satisfactory outcome then I feel sorry for you

I can only assume you, or anyone you know, have never been upgraded to when flying. The good feelings that are created by such an action are passed on by word of mouth. Many times.

If a seat was empty in First Class and a guard was asking some-one to vacate a seat in standard, it makes perfect sense to offer that passenger the empty seat.

You are telling me, that if you paid say £75 to sit in first class, that because someone has to stand, they should sit there for no extra? Would you not be annoyed?

 

[mumrar]

A lot of people voluntarily stand* (for whatever reason) when there are seats, and it may look busier than it is.

This is what is known as being 'British' - I couldn't possibly sit next to somebody I don't know, quite ridiculous. If the British public designed trains they'd all want to return to the days of compartmented stock with one difference. One seat per compartment.

 

[Robinson]

There was one incident I was involved in during my recent 14 day ALR, on a busy FGW HST from Paddington to Plymouth. I don't know if similar incidents occur more regularly in areas I don't routinely travel in, but...
The train had plenty of standing passengers, but I had a seat and both the person sitting next to me and I had gone to the Express Cafe. By the time I returned, both seats had been taken by a mother and child (no, they weren't priority seats!). We hadn't gone through a station since I had gone, my bag was still in the overhead rack above the seat, and my journal and pen were still on the table - so they must have known I was coming back.
Now I have been on trains that were at least as busy as that particular one, and normally if I can't get a seat on such a lengthy journey I will wait for the next train. However, if you choose to take the risk, then I don't think you should have the right to do that.

 

[LE Greys]

There was one incident I was involved in during my recent 14 day ALR, on a busy FGW HST from Paddington to Plymouth. I don't know if similar incidents occur more regularly in areas I don't routinely travel in, but...
The train had plenty of standing passengers, but I had a seat and both the person sitting next to me and I had gone to the Express Cafe. By the time I returned, both seats had been taken by a mother and child (no, they weren't priority seats!). We hadn't gone through a station since I had gone, my bag was still in the overhead rack above the seat, and my journal and pen were still on the table - so they must have known I was coming back.
Now I have been on trains that were at least as busy as that particular one, and normally if I can't get a seat on such a lengthy journey I will wait for the next train. However, if you choose to take the risk, then I don't think you should have the right to do that.

I don't mind giving up my seat to people who have more right to it (despite my leg) but there are limits, and that was way beyond them! If people insist on doing that sort of thing, then that's yet another reason why buffet cars are dying out. I'm sure that seat-grabbers like that would complain vociferously if (a) they removed the buffet cars or (b) somebody did it to them.

This is what is known as being 'British' - I couldn't possibly sit next to somebody I don't know, quite ridiculous. If the British public designed trains they'd all want to return to the days of compartmented stock with one difference. One seat per compartment.

I've noticed that too, but I've also noticed that people don't seem to care when on flights or with reserved seats. Personally, I'd rather have a window seat, so I tend to go for pairs with nobody sitting in them, but I don't see anything wrong with sitting next to a stranger. I'd also rather not have a reserved seat, because it gives me a chance to go somewhere else if someone I don't like the look of is in the one next to it. I remember one occasion when the people at the table in front of me was watching some very disturbing videos on their laptop. I promptly moved to the next coach at the next station.

As for compartments, it adds complications, but at least they tend to be quieter. And we did used to have coupé coaches at one point, with individual or two-person compartments (very expensive to book).

 

[Wyvern]

If someone looks as if they are going to sit next to you, give them a really welcoming smile.

 

[mrcheek]

If someone looks as if they are going to sit next to you, give them a really welcoming smile.

I think this was the only funny thing Johnny Vaughan ever said. How to make sure noone ever takes the seat next to you. As soon as someone comes near, look up, smile, and pat the seat....

 

[455driver]

Tried that going up to PAD last week, and had a lovely Scandinavian blonde sit next to me, we chatted all the way up and it really made the time pass

 

[jon0844]

This is what is known as being 'British' - I couldn't possibly sit next to somebody I don't know, quite ridiculous. If the British public designed trains they'd all want to return to the days of compartmented stock with one difference. One seat per compartment.

To be fair, I don't think that's the case in these examples. One is quite an old lady who always looks very happy and content - and would probably engage in a conversation with you if you talked to her.

The other gentleman was always reading his book and for all I know he did it standing up to avoid motion sickness or something.

But, you're probably right that some people would want one seat per compartment. There are times when even I feel like that, especially if I'm feeling under the weather or tired. Give me my own cabin and a bed and I'm happy - even if I'm only on the train for 35 minutes.

Tried that going up to PAD last week, and had a lovely Scandinavian blonde sit next to me, we chatted all the way up and it really made the time pass

Another good reason to have one of those compartments...

 

[Robinson]

I don't mind giving up my seat to people who have more right to it (despite my leg) but there are limits, and that was way beyond them! If people insist on doing that sort of thing, then that's yet another reason why buffet cars are dying out. I'm sure that seat-grabbers like that would complain vociferously if (a) they removed the buffet cars or (b) somebody did it to them.

As I say, I've travelled on standing-room only trains over similar distances before and that never happened. In fact quite the opposite occurred once (Some customers can be so rude... Others can be so helpful!) Travelling on a Virgin Voyager from Preston to Glasgow a little while back (not during the ALR), I went up to the shop a little too close to Lancaster and got caught behind the queue of passengers at the door waiting to alight. When I eventually got through I found a fellow passenger's coat left where I had been sat "so no one would take the seat". Needless to say that was much appreciated!

 

[jimrbrobinson]

I think this was the only funny thing Johnny Vaughan ever said. How to make sure noone ever takes the seat next to you. As soon as someone comes near, look up, smile, and pat the seat....

Yep, works for me every time!!! Especially if they're female and I do my Leslie Phillips impression: "Well Hello!" If I'm really on top form it can clear the carriage!!!

 

[The North Briton]

Here's a good one: Customer Relations guy rings up and asks me why a particular train was described as in reverse when in fact it was the right way round. As it was two weeks ago, I speculate there could have been any number of reasons, then get curious and ask why he's asking. Apparently a (first class) customer had complained that she shouldn't have been subjected to the additional stress of walking the length of the train to find her seat. My first reaction was to suggest she 'go get a life', but then I suggest he points out to her the distance she walked was equivalent to the distance she wouldn't have had to walk to leave the station when she arrived in London! Next!!

 

[jon0844]

If she has the additional stress of walking along a train, maybe she should try and become successful and get her own car and driver.

 

[GodAtum]

I saw a guy try to get on a packed London bridge train from east croydon with a pram, he could barely fit in!

If I have a backpack and its busy i always put it between my legs.

 

[Drsatan]

I saw a guy try to get on a packed London bridge train from east croydon with a pram, he could barely fit in!

If I have a backpack and its busy i ulways put it between my legs.

Unfortunately most passengers neglect to do that. This can often result on a crowded train in someone's rucksack swinging into your face.

 

[jay jay]

It always amazes me when I have travelled on Southern or Southeastern 377/375 trains in peak times that people actually rush to get the individual seats adjacent to the universal toilet. I mean for christ sake, do they really want to sit next to the bleedin toilet for the whole journey when they could have a better environment in normal seating? It also annoys me when people sit there when parents with buggys or wheelchair users could make much better use of the space. The good old general public eh?

 

[Oswyntail]

You are telling me, that if you paid say £75 to sit in first class, that because someone has to stand, they should sit there for no extra? Would you not be annoyed?

Why should he be? He has what he paid for. Anything else is irrelevant.