Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[ScotRail158725]

Aaagh! Someone put those of us who know what they are but can't talk about it out of our misery by coming out and saying it so we can

ill take one for the team?

 

[overthewater]

Go on then?

 

[OmniCity999]

ill take one for the team?

Oh go on then, show everyone a photo!

 

[CN04NRJ]

ill take one for the team?

A worthwhile sacrifice!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2020 ==

Looks like ECB's 10101 is in use with Horsburgh now, looking very smart after repaint ;

Photo of 10101 on Flickr

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2020 ==

Also - this has appeared on bus times. Wonder what it could be?

View attachment 84142

It's vanished off there now, how mysterious

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Under Richard Hall, we started going through a phase of liking the dual doors. 1141-1153 kept their middle door, but 1000 was converted to single (2 more rows of seats were added I think). Do we know if that will continue or if we will be going back to single door ops like the rest of the non B8L fleet are?

 

[computerSaysNo]

I think dual doors on deckers which are being used primarily in a city setting is a good idea. It helps speed up the boarding/alighting process.
I'm not convinced it's a good idea on rigid single deck vehicles though, due to the loss of seats.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Under Richard Hall, we started going through a phase of liking the dual doors. 1141-1153 kept their middle door, but 1000 was converted to single (2 more rows of seats were added I think). Do we know if that will continue or if we will be going back to single door ops like the rest of the non B8L fleet are?

Dual doors don't make much sense on short wheelbase deckers. All it does is lose 4 seats. The argument about faster loading/unloading is only really valid if you have vast amounts of people getting on/off at one stop, few routes have such a set up. Certainly not to the point where it warrants the loss of 4 seats.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I think dual doors on deckers which are being used primarily in a city setting is a good idea. It helps speed up the boarding/alighting process.
I'm not convinced it's a good idea on rigid single deck vehicles though, due to the loss of seats.

It would be better if the council improved the bus stop infrastructure and parking measures around them - it's difficult trying to align the back doors with a safe point for people to alight with the bus oftentimes being at an angle and the rear door nowhere near the kerb. Raised kerbs are almost non existent - is there a reason for that as most councils seem to have them at most stops?

 

[OmniCity999]

It would be better if the council improved the bus stop infrastructure and parking measures around them - it's difficult trying to align the back doors with a safe point for people to alight with the bus oftentimes being at an angle and the rear door nowhere near the kerb. Raised kerbs are almost non existent - is there a reason for that as most councils seem to have them at most stops?

When originally pitched, the return to dual door operation was supposed to just be in the immediate city centre. For example, the 11 was only supposed to be dual door operated between Elm Row and Tollcross and terminal points.

Infrastructure in the city centre itself was supposed to be getting improved to allow this, such as the temporary measures at the top of Waverley Steps etc. So wider, higher kerbs, the full length of the buses.

But realistically, in Edinburgh try enforcing a "Part Time" dual door system, it doesnt work. it creates too much complication. People see a door, any door, they'll try to exit. Edinburgh's clientele are too... "upmarket"

As far as im aware, all future double deck orders will be dual door. With a few exceptions, but dont quote me on that - things change regularly around here.

One of said exceptions i can think of off the top of my head being the subsidiaries getting single door vehicles, but for example, the 113 potentially getting dual doored vehicles as most of its route being more urban than country.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Dual doors don't make much sense on short wheelbase deckers. All it does is lose 4 seats. The argument about faster loading/unloading is only really valid if you have vast amounts of people getting on/off at one stop, few routes have such a set up. Certainly not to the point where it warrants the loss of 4 seats.

That’s definitely the thinking in Bristol. Metrobus and P&R have dual doors where you have few stops (and so few to alter to accommodate dual doors) whilst city services don’t. Also, the dual doors don’t encounter many tight turns so you have longer wheelbase vehicles to compensate for lost capacity.

 

[Jordan Adam]

That’s definitely the thinking in Bristol. Metrobus and P&R have dual doors where you have few stops (and so few to alter to accommodate dual doors) whilst city services don’t. Also, the dual doors don’t encounter many tight turns so you have longer wheelbase vehicles to compensate for lost capacity.

Indeed an 11.5M E400MMC has an extra row of seats vs a 10.9M example so the loss of 4 seats on the lower deck from the second door is compensated. My main issue with duel doors is on shorter deckers, i've never understood the London logic of stick two doors on everything and buying deckers as short but tall as possible. Some of Firsts Tridents (specifically the X-HLT batch) were almost as tall as they were long.

I'd suspect part of the reason the second doors were retained on that last batch of Geminis was more to save money/time rather than to ease loading/unloading because on the route they're on with the capacity they have the second door doesn't really serve much benefit.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I think dual doors on deckers which are being used primarily in a city setting is a good idea. It helps speed up the boarding/alighting process.
I'm not convinced it's a good idea on rigid single deck vehicles though, due to the loss of seats.

What's the consensus on boarding (and possibly alighting) times these days? Thinking back to LRT in the 1980s and trying to make comparisons I'm not especially impressed by how long it takes to load Lothian buses nowadays.
Asking people to tap on a card reader instead of just flashing their pass at the driver, and locating the ticket collection point at the reader itself instead of behind the cab feels so much slower to me. And the speed the ticket prints out feels almost glacial compared to how they were either stamped & dispensed or spat out in the past.
Waiting until the vehicle stops before opening doors doesn't help in this regard either. I realise we can't go back to anything that's a bit dangerous, but I feel there could be a lot more done to hasten the boarding/alighting process rather than simply adding an extra door.
However I'm still a firm advocate of the 'board at flag' policy - I wouldn't like to see that being sacrificed.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed an 11.5M E400MMC has an extra row of seats vs a 10.9M example so the loss of 4 seats on the lower deck from the second door is compensated. My main issue with duel doors is on shorter deckers, i've never understood the London logic of stick two doors on everything and buying deckers as short but tall as possible. Some of Firsts Tridents (specifically the X-HLT batch) were almost as tall as they were long.

I'd suspect part of the reason the second doors were retained on that last batch of Geminis was more to save money/time rather than to ease loading/unloading because on the route they're on with the capacity they have the second door doesn't really serve much benefit.

It's the London thing that they demand dual doors as standard for consistency but, of course, you have to have manoeuvrability on certain routes so you end up with 20 seats in the downstairs saloon (and only 39 upstairs).

 

[Swanny200]

What's the consensus on boarding (and possibly alighting) times these days? Thinking back to LRT in the 1980s and trying to make comparisons I'm not especially impressed by how long it takes to load Lothian buses nowadays.
Asking people to tap on a card reader instead of just flashing their pass at the driver, and locating the ticket collection point at the reader itself instead of behind the cab feels so much slower to me. And the speed the ticket prints out feels almost glacial compared to how they were either stamped & dispensed or spat out in the past.
Waiting until the vehicle stops before opening doors doesn't help in this regard either. I realise we can't go back to anything that's a bit dangerous, but I feel there could be a lot more done to hasten the boarding/alighting process rather than simply adding an extra door.
However I'm still a firm advocate of the 'board at flag' policy - I wouldn't like to see that being sacrificed.

I still love the old Grampian way, the ticket collection point was by the stairs, was it like that for other bus companies or was it just Grampian?

 

[scosutsut]

I still love the old Grampian way, the ticket collection point was by the stairs, was it like that for other bus companies or was it just Grampian?

Lothian did have that at one point, was sort of between the drivers cab and the stairs

 

[Bus9120UK]

Lothian did have that at one point, was sort of between the drivers cab and the stairs

Indeed, some buses still have some blue pieces of plastic covering the gap where these used to be. I quite liked the system.

 

[OmniCity999]

Indeed, some buses still have some blue pieces of plastic covering the gap where these used to be. I quite liked the system.

Having it integral to the ticket machine means one less peice if equipment to wrong.

It also means drivers can change the ticket roll without leaving the cab, and thats was the issue.

 

[90019]

I don't miss the separate printers at all - they were extremely unreliable and the connection to the wayfarer would fail all the time.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Buses Magazine states a Lothian Branded MCV Evora was seen at Seafield, however this was back in august. Is this one of the new buses? I doubt it, even though the fact it was Lothian branded is interesting.. Or this could be fake news

Not My Photo, credits to my friend who took it.

 

[Lothianbus703]

idk if this is fake new but I think I found on the new single deckers in the buses magazine.

The text in article reads:

An MCV Evora-bodied Volvo B8RLE was noted at Seafield Works in August, in Lothian livery

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2020 ==

I was the friend who took it btw

Mod note: Please remember to add a transcription of text if you're posting screenshots/images that contain printed information.

 

[221129]

Buses Magazine states a Lothian Branded MCV Evora was seen at Seafield, however this was back in august. Is this one of the new buses? I doubt it, even though the fact it was Lothian branded is interesting.. Or this could be fake news

Not My Photo, credits to my friend who took it.
View attachment 84232

Did they not have a demonstrator on loan earlier this year during the summer?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Did they not have a demonstrator on loan earlier this year during the summer?

They did indeed, however this was white. The post in the magazine mentions it was Lothian Branded.

 

[221129]

They did indeed, however this was white. The post in the magazine mentions it was Lothian Branded.

Lothian branded could just mean white with Lothian branding (like the one they had on loan)

 

[Bus9120UK]

Lothian branded could just mean white with Lothian branding (like the one they had on loan)

Sorry, I meant that it says that it is in "Lothian Livery". You could be right and this may be the demo, but this could also be something else. May it could be Bus 77, which has been at Central for the past month according to the tracker.

 

[Swanny200]

The EvoRa demo was bus 299, I don't know where it is now but East Coast were supposed to be using it too

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I don't know about this summer but Lothian had a Volvo B8RLE EvoRa reg BV19LND last summer. It was on the streets July/August 2019. I don't think anything was in 2020...

 

[Bus9120UK]

I don't know about this summer but Lothian had a Volvo B8RLE EvoRa reg BV19LND last summer. It was on the streets July/August 2019. I don't think anything was in 2020...

You are right. We are just getting confused. This evora that has been spotted can't be the demo from last year.

 

[Swanny200]

No pictures seen of it since August of last year in any fleet on flickr or on any other search, is it odd for a demo to just go to one company and never be seen again, unless it was a bit of a dud, anyone driven an EvoRA, I know the evolutions were hit an miss with some drivers

 

[221129]

I don't know about this summer but Lothian had a Volvo B8RLE EvoRa reg BV19LND last summer. It was on the streets July/August 2019. I don't think anything was in 2020...

My apologies, that's the one I was thinking of!

 

[CN04NRJ]

idk if this is fake new but I think I found on the new single deckers in the buses magazineView attachment 84233

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2020 ==

I was the friend who took it btw

Does this mean its official now?