Should bus windows be locked open to improve ventilation?

[Andy Pacer]

Average low temperatures in London (so colder in most of the rest of the country):

London - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

March 3.9
April 5.5
May 8.7

It is coldest first thing in the morning, when the drivers were/are being told to open the windows.

Fair enough. I dont see why we are getting into tit for tat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2020 ==

I was under the Impression this rule was of now, not during the first lockdown.

I assume it's never been removed (a bit like a lot of Covid restrictions - once they are removed and things go wrong people can get into the blame game!).

 

[DelW]

A cold bus is basically the same as no bus. Bus travel is unattractive as it is, but who's going to use a cold bus when they have a car with heating?

Even a cold bus gets you where you want to go, no bus doesn't. Most people who travel by bus need to walk a little distance to and from the stops, so they usually wear outer clothing to suit the weather anyway. And not everyone has access to a car.

 

[py_megapixel]

This thread feels like it's going to devolve into yet another roundabout conversation about the purpose of the Covid restrictions ...

I have never had a dispute with another passenger about whether the window should be open or not. Usually I prefer to avoid confrontation so if a passenger closes a window that I have opened or vice-versa, I will tend to leave it like that until the passenger in question has alighted.

We have coped fine for decades with passenger operated windows; it's a system which in my opinion simply doesn't need to change.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I've been on plenty a drafty bus that had all its windows closed too.

 

[radamfi]

Even a cold bus gets you where you want to go, no bus doesn't. Most people who travel by bus need to walk a little distance to and from the stops, so they usually wear outer clothing to suit the weather anyway. And not everyone has access to a car.

But surely it is hardly going to attract passengers? If operators are only interested in people without access to a car, then there is little hope for them!

 

[Andy Pacer]

This thread feels like it's going to devolve into yet another roundabout conversation about the purpose of the Covid restrictions ...

I have never had a dispute with another passenger about whether the window should be open or not. Usually I prefer to avoid confrontation so if a passenger closes a window that I have opened or vice-versa, I will tend to leave it like that until the passenger in question has alighted.

We have coped fine for decades with passenger operated windows; it's a system which in my opinion simply doesn't need to change.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes, but then again i'm the kind of weirdo who likes the window open on a winter's day.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Iceland has attributed 100 infections to two bars that 2 French tourists visited. The thinking seems to be that lack of ventilation caused aerosols to linger in the air.

A bus is a similar-sized environment to a small bar so I think that open windows is a good idea, as well as other measures like mask-wearing and distancing.

 

[radamfi]

Iceland has attributed 100 infections to two bars that 2 French tourists visited. The thinking seems to be that lack of ventilation caused aerosols to linger in the air.

A bus is a similar-sized environment to a small bar so I think that open windows is a good idea, as well as other measures like mask-wearing and distancing.

Even if passengers switch to cars and don't go back to the bus?

 

[Mag_seven]

Surely making the bus cold and draughty goes against all we have ever been taught about not creating an environment that makes any conditions that we already have (such as colds etc) worse.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Surely making the bus cold and draughty goes against all we have ever been taught about not creating an environment that makes any conditions that we already have (such as colds etc) worse.

Yes, which is why they definitely shouldn't be locked open!!

 

[greyman42]

What a stupid idea. It will be awful when it is cold and raining. Some people are getting paranoid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely making the bus cold and draughty goes against all we have ever been taught about not creating an environment that makes any conditions that we already have (such as colds etc) worse.

Colds are absolutely nothing to do with being cold (other than that being very cold causes immune suppression - but you've waited for the bus at a cold bus stop). Indeed, a draught makes them less likely to spread.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Yes yes

Air-conditioning is a curse, not only in pandemic times!

 

[Nicholas43]

The government's guidance to operators says

Ventilation
You should consider how to increase ventilation and air flow. Where possible, transport operators and businesses should ensure that a fresh air supply is consistently flowing through vehicles, carriages, transport hubs and office buildings.
To achieve this, you could consider:

• air conditioning ...
• fresh ventilation systems can operate as normal, but recirculating air systems may require adjustments to increase fresh air flow
• high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filtration
• opening doors and windows where possible and safe to do so

As a 77-year old who really does not want to get Covid-19, does travel on buses, and possesses a coat and woolly hat, I would prefer the windows on a bus to be open (unless it has properly functioning air conditioning).

 

[HSTEd]

So we want to stop people using public transport?

That's all this will achieve in reality.

Yet another part of society, and an environmentally important one at that, sacrificed on the altar of Blatcherism (concerned primarily with protecting its voter base at any cost)

 

[Jamiescott1]

While we're at it, why don't we wedge open all fire doors in buildings to improve ventilation

 

[birchesgreen]

While we're at it, why don't we wedge open all fire doors in buildings to improve ventilation

My office has actually done that. I'm glad i'm still WFH.

 

[Cowley]

I’ve just had to move another load of posts about face masks into the relevant thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/uk-face-coverings-discussion.206902/
Can we try and keep this thread about bus and open windows etc please.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

My office has actually done that. I'm glad i'm still WFH.

‘Yes, we’re sorry your loved one perished in the inferno fanned by the draught. But, if it’s any consolation, at least they didn’t die a horrible death from coronavirus, hey?’

 

[DelayRepay]

I doubt I will be using a bus during the winter but if I did I would prefer windows open. I'll be wearing warm clothes, and I hate the damp/condensation you get when it's raining outside, the heating is on and the windows are closed.

 

[radamfi]

I doubt I will be using a bus during the winter but if I did I would prefer windows open. I'll be wearing warm clothes, and I hate the damp/condensation you get when it's raining outside, the heating is on and the windows are closed.

Yes, that is annoying. However, trains and coaches seem to avoid this problem, and don't have opening windows. So the solution is clearly to build bus windows the same as train and coach windows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, that is annoying. However, trains and coaches seem to avoid this problem, and don't have opening windows. So the solution is clearly to build bus windows the same as train and coach windows.

There are two reasons for this:-
1. Double glazing - bus companies don't like this because it is heavier than single glazing and so costs them money, both to install and in fuel. It also has the benefit of making buses more rigid and so you get less rattle.
2. Air conditioning - bus companies don't like this because it costs them money.

Can you see a theme?

The same reason is why "buses smell like wee", it's not urine, it's a musty smell caused by damp.

 

[Howardh]

Every bar I went in last night had their doors wide open, and it was uncomfortably cold inside and nowhere had heating on. They want customers back, well I certainly don't want to sit in the cold. I'll be seeking out bars that are warm and sticking to them. As for buses, it's a personal gripe of mine that many drivers in winter refuse to put any heating on whatsoever, which simply means I use taxis instead and they get my money.

Covid is no excuse whatsoever for making people, especially elderly people, really unconfortable on transport or in establishments. If anyone likes cold and draughty, buy a tent and live in the Arctic.

 

[Nicholas43]

...Covid is no excuse whatsoever for making people, especially elderly people, really uncomfortable on transport or in establishments. If anyone likes cold and draughty, buy a tent and live in the Arctic.

[Victor Meldrew mode]Or (as I said upthread) get a warm coat and a woolly hat! [/Victor Meldrew]

 

[Howardh]

[Victor Meldrew mode]Or (as I said upthread) get a warm coat and a woolly hat! [/Victor Meldrew]

Which misses the point that on a moving bus with open windows, and there's virus around, all you are doing is flinging it at force into the faces of those at the back, instead of allowing the particles to the floor. Crazy, just crazy.
Although if face masks work, then issue solved, let's close the windows. It's either one or the other, face masks work and we're saved, or they don't so why are we wearing them? Seing as we don't know the answer, then wear them and close the windows to let the virus drop to the floor if that's what it does.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although if face masks work, then issue solved, let's close the windows. It's either one or the other, face masks work and we're saved, or they don't so why are we wearing them? Seing as we don't know the answer, then wear them and close the windows to let the virus drop to the floor if that's what it does.

It's not either one or the other. Nothing provides absolute protection, you add measures up for overall gain.

 

[DelayRepay]

Although if face masks work, then issue solved, let's close the windows. It's either one or the other, face masks work and we're saved, or they don't so why are we wearing them? .

A scarf over the face is acceptable, and would help with the cold as well as complying with the Covid rules. Everyone's a winner.

 

[Howardh]

A scarf over the face is acceptable, and would help with the cold as well as complying with the Covid rules. Everyone's a winner.

Still getting particles from those at the front in my face though. If the particles can't get through a scarf or mask, then there's no need to circulate the air in the bus by having the windows open.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still getting particles from those at the front in my face though. If the particles can't get through a scarf or mask, then there's no need to circulate the air in the bus by having the windows open.

As I pointed out, it isn't that simple, because a mask will not stop them all. Circulating the air disperses them, thus resulting in lower viral loads, thus making fewer viable infections.

As a certain supermarket likes to say, "every little helps".