Ideas to boost the Conwy Valley Line

[CW2]

Great to see this line reopening.
Slightly off-topic, but do you think there would be scope for a tourist steam operation Llandudno - Blaeneau, something akin to Fort William - Mallaig?
A regular trip through the summer months could be a big draw for tourists, and link into both the Ffestiniog Railway and the North Wales tourist trade.
Stabling and servicing of loco and stock might be an issue - there's no handy depot like at Fort William. Maybe create some facility on the power station branch at Blaenau, so that the train could be "locked in" there without affecting the regular service train arrivals and departures?

 

[krus_aragon]

Great to see this line reopening.
Slightly off-topic, but do you think there would be scope for a tourist steam operation Llandudno - Blaeneau, something akin to Fort William - Mallaig?
A regular trip through the summer months could be a big draw for tourists, and link into both the Ffestiniog Railway and the North Wales tourist trade.
Stabling and servicing of loco and stock might be an issue - there's no handy depot like at Fort William. Maybe create some facility on the power station branch at Blaenau, so that the train could be "locked in" there without affecting the regular service train arrivals and departures?

Rail tours from further afield have operated in the past, typically two or three per summer in recent times. But a daily or weekly operation from Llandudno would likely end up competing for business with the Ffestiniog.

With the Ffestiniog, Welsh Highland, Padarn Lake, Snowdon Mountain, and Dolgarrog(!) Railways, it's already quite crowded for heritage railways in northern Snowdonia.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Not to mention the railway museum at Betws-y-Coed, if one got off to look at that one might get to Blaenau too late for the FR

 

[Pacef8]

The cafe in/on the train is pretty good though.

 

[Llandudno]

I think there is an opportunity along the lines of the special loco hauled Skipton to Appleby trains this summer.

Howabout during July/August the following loco hauled train:

Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Victoria to Llandudno
The train then operates Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog and return to Llandudno
Llandudno to Liverpool/Manchester

The Liverpool leg to operate three days per week, say, Sat, Tue, Thu
The Manchester leg to operate four days a week, say, Sun, Mon, Wed, Fri

Day returns (maybe even period returns) could be offered from Liverpool/Manchester to Llandudno and/or Blaenau Ffestiniog and local day returns from Llandudno to/from Blaenau.

 

[Llanigraham]

The cafe in/on the train is pretty good though.

I found it very disappointing and quite tatty when we went last year.

 

[krus_aragon]

Howabout during July/August the following loco hauled train:

Liverpool Lime Street/Manchester Victoria to Llandudno
The train then operates Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog and return to Llandudno
Llandudno to Liverpool/Manchester

I see that as a more viable option than just Llandudno-Blaenau loco hauled. If you start from Liverpool/Manchester then you're bringing in people in from outside the local area; if it's just a local operation then you're competing with the other heritage operations in the area.

 

[Hardcastle]

In BR days there was a additional summer train from Stoke on Trent to Llandudno which in between its lay off it did two runs Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog & return hauled by a class 47 that was a fun train to travel on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see that as a more viable option than just Llandudno-Blaenau loco hauled. If you start from Liverpool/Manchester then you're bringing in people in from outside the local area; if it's just a local operation then you're competing with the other heritage operations in the area.

At the moment that would be a bit awkward rolling stock wise as the Liverpool services are 175s, and 175s (and indeed 158s) aren't allowed to Blaenau. Once it's all CAF units it would be easier to do something like that, so maybe it would be considered. I could see "day excursions to Betws y Coed" selling quite well, actually.

 

[Hardcastle]

I find the route south of Betws y Coed the most interesting section of the line with all the climb up to Blaenau.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find the route south of Betws y Coed the most interesting section of the line with all the climb up to Blaenau.

I completely agree, but your typical Scouser probably has Betws in mind as a nice place to go (and it is, to be fair).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2020 ==

The cafe in/on the train is pretty good though.

As far as cafes go at Betws my preferred one is the one near the station entrance, it's vegetarian but so good you don't mind.

 

[Pacef8]

I will put it on my hit list as a vegetarian Myself

 

[Llandudno]

At the moment that would be a bit awkward rolling stock wise as the Liverpool services are 175s, and 175s (and indeed 158s) aren't allowed to Blaenau. Once it's all CAF units it would be easier to do something like that, so maybe it would be considered. I could see "day excursions to Betws y Coed" selling quite well, actually.

The only way this could work financially is for a someone like Rail Charter Services to operate loco hauled trains like they did this summer between Skipton and Appleby.

It needs a true commercial operator with a proactive marketing team to make the service a financial success, something, sadly lacking with TfW and Northern etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think any prospective ‘pop up’ operator here would want to have reasonable assurance they could actually operate the trains to get a return on their investment. Something that is highly unlikely on that line.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

As there’s a loop and I believe you can ‘lock in’ the stock, you could find a path up to Blaenau and it can connect with a steam ride; or the town. Back the other way.

If it starts at Crewe, Chester and runs along some of the key stops with caravan / holiday parks you might fill it 3-4 times per week.

 

[Llandudno]

As there’s a loop and I believe you can ‘lock in’ the stock, you could find a path up to Blaenau and it can connect with a steam ride; or the town. Back the other way.

If it starts at Crewe, Chester and runs along some of the key stops with caravan / holiday parks you might fill it 3-4 times per week.

I think the main markets for a charter style loco hauled service, perhaps occasionally steam hauled are from the big cities like Liverpool and Manchester as a premium fare could be charged.

Perhaps £35 return on diesel days and £50 on steam days.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I'm not so sure about a steam service but there are ways the line could be boosted I think. Following the pressure on the national park this summer there's probably a good case for rethinking the way people access and use the park - not to discourage visitors but to manage them better and reduce the parking pressure on the visitor honeypots.

As an example, the Snowdon Sherpa bus service does connect with the railway at Betws y Coed and Llanrwst (sometimes). You need to change buses though to reach places like Waunfawr and Rhyd-ddu. A service starting in Betws that did a full circuit of Snowdon would be an improvement.

Similalrly some of the new Liverpool - North Wales direct services could head south down the CVL during the summer months rather than terminating at Llandudno or Bangor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As an example, the Snowdon Sherpa bus service does connect with the railway at Betws y Coed and Llanrwst (sometimes). You need to change buses though to reach places like Waunfawr and Rhyd-ddu. A service starting in Betws that did a full circuit of Snowdon would be an improvement.

The Sherpa is a great idea but is very poorly executed both in terms of connections at Betws and of connections at Bangor. It really needs redrawing and improving so it offers the sort of quality and connectivity Stagecoach's Lakeland services do.

This would be much easier if only the Conwy Valley could be got to 2 hourly clockface, though.