Where could the ex-Heathrow Connect class 360/2s be used? Or will they be scrapped?

[Bletchleyite]

Created this thread to discuss possibilities, so they aren't clogging the non-speculative thread. Speculate away!

The ones I had heard were:
- Sale to Thailand for use on the Bangkok Airport route alongside their existing Desiros
- Scrap

 

[Neptune]

Created this thread to discuss possibilities, so they aren't clogging the non-speculative thread. Speculate away!

The ones I had heard were:
- Sale to Thailand for use on the Bangkok Airport route alongside their existing Desiros
- Scrap

I think that’s the only 2 sensible suggestions really.

No call for them elsewhere in the UK.

 

[Domh245]

The last (few) threads about these units was fairly inconclusive about the futures. Bangkok is probably the most sensible option, but it's dependant on if they are interested in them

 

[JonathanH]

It is worth noting that the speculation about Bangkok dates back to 2013 (in a very similar thread). Who would have thought they would in fact do another seven years?

What will happen with Class 360/2 units after Crossrail units start work

GA so we can send 321's off somewhere else!

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[swt_passenger]

Created this thread to discuss possibilities, so they aren't clogging the non-speculative thread. Speculate away!

The ones I had heard were:
- Sale to Thailand for use on the Bangkok Airport route alongside their existing Desiros
- Scrap

Haven’t there been enough recent discussions already, have you missed all the previous threads? What can possibly have changed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Haven’t there been enough recent discussions already, have you missed all the previous threads? What can possibly have changed?

A little virus?

 

[swt_passenger]

A little virus?

Why would that make them suddenly useful then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would that make them suddenly useful then?

It might mean the answer becomes "scrap"...

 

[swt_passenger]

It might mean the answer becomes "scrap"...

The answer was already scrap in all the recent threads. Using them in Thailand would have exactly the same end result as far as GB rail is concerned...

 

[Starmill]

In theory it's entirely possible that the answer is simply not to make a decision, and just keep them in storage to see what the market looks like coming out of the other end. Whether there's a customer abroad is clearly the biggest factor, but assuming there's not one, scrap, or sale at scrap value, is clearly still the more likely option.

 

[Chris172]

With the new stations at Willenhall and Darlaston opening maybe WMT could have them to work around wolves and Walsall?

 

[Ianno87]

With the new stations at Willenhall and Darlaston opening maybe WMT could have them to work around wolves and Walsall?

Presuming they presumably have some commonality of components etc with WMT's 350, wonder whether the fleet could be deployed to "odds and sods" routes like the Abbey flyer? (Noting issues like platform length to consider)

 

[DorkingMain]

I can't see why WMT would consider bringing these in rather than retaining a handful of 350/2s which have gangways and are already built to their spec.

 

[adc82140]

One thing's for certain, Heathrow Airport won't want to store them. That costs money. I reckon a sale will be likely to one or other of the leasing companies, and then.....

 

[fgwrich]

I can't see why WMT would consider bringing these in rather than retaining a handful of 350/2s which have gangways and are already built to their spec.

It would depend if Porterbrook tried to call WMTs bluff (for the second time), though of course the ownership would also be a factor. I did ponder if they could be rebuilt with a normal Desiro cab though. Failing that, a way to replace some of the 319s?

They could also end up with a leasing co and used as a group of "short term hire / speculative hire" units, similar to something Porterbrook once did with the 39X batch of 170s.

Though if we were really getting the crayons out, I would rebuild the cabs with a standard UK Desiro cab, convert them to duel voltage and stick them in the SWR Fleet.

 

[43096]

One thing's for certain, Heathrow Airport won't want to store them. That costs money. I reckon a sale will be likely to one or other of the leasing companies, and then.....

The leasing companies have a surplus of stock. As an example Porterbrook have the 350/2s coming off lease with no operator lined up; why would they take on five almost identical trains?

 

[adc82140]

Though if we were really getting the crayons out, I would rebuild the cabs with a standard UK Desiro cab, convert them to duel voltage and stick them in the SWR Fleet.

I'm sure I remember some of SWT's 450s started out life with 360 style cabs before introduction, or have I just made that up?

The leasing companies have a surplus of stock. As an example Porterbrook have the 350/2s coming off lease with no operator lined up; why would they take on five almost identical trains?

Hopefully sidings full of 350/2s may focus a few minds about the leasing charges being asked for.

If nothing else, modern EMUs parked up will turn in to a political hot potato if there is overcrowding/inability to socially distance anywhere on the electrified network.

 

[Domh245]

I'm sure I remember some of SWT's 450s started out life with 360 style cabs before introduction, or have I just made that up?

I think it was the other way around. The 360s were originally going to be gangwayed, but due to DOO equipment sighting concerns they became flat fronted instead. There's a post here in one of the earlier threads about these units showing the conversion after the gangways were removed

Hopefully sidings full of 350/2s may focus a few minds about the leasing charges being asked for.

If nothing else, modern EMUs parked up will turn in to a political hot potato if there is overcrowding/inability to socially distance anywhere on the electrified network.

The leasing charge is only part of the issue. Where would you run them?

 

[43096]

Hopefully sidings full of 350/2s may focus a few minds about the leasing charges being asked for.

I'm sure it doesn't need sidings full of them for Porterbrook to know the problem. Do you know what leasing charges are being asked for?

In any case I am somewhat sceptical about the leasing cost issue with them, as the West Mids 172s, ordered at the same time by the same operator and with the same owner, are not being replaced. Presumably the financing costs are very similar for them.

 

[DorkingMain]

The leasing cost issue in the past was supposedly that to increase capacity on EMU routes it was cheaper to buy and lease a single fleet of new purpose built stock, vs leasing additional stock and modifying it to be compatible with each other.

With diesels which are in much shorter supply the problem has shifted to the fact that there are large swathes of ancient HSTs, Sprinters and Pacers running about and little scope to increase capacity when the priority was building new stock to shuffle those out of the fleet.

 

[swt_passenger]

It would depend if Porterbrook tried to call WMTs bluff (for the second time), though of course the ownership would also be a factor. I did ponder if they could be rebuilt with a normal Desiro cab though. Failing that, a way to replace some of the 319s?

They could also end up with a leasing co and used as a group of "short term hire / speculative hire" units, similar to something Porterbrook once did with the 39X batch of 170s.

Though if we were really getting the crayons out, I would rebuild the cabs with a standard UK Desiro cab, convert them to duel voltage and stick them in the SWR Fleet.

If just made dual voltage SWR have quite a reasonable number of routes that won’t ever actually need gangways, I don’t think that would actually be a show stopper. Obviously it would need management as a sub fleet, but you could for example use them on Portsmouth to Southampton, and Lymington. Four in service plus a spare. Or maybe in the Guildford/Farnham/Aldershot/Ascot area, along with normal 450s.

 

[greatvoyager]

Created this thread to discuss possibilities, so they aren't clogging the non-speculative thread. Speculate away!

The ones I had heard were:
- Sale to Thailand for use on the Bangkok Airport route alongside their existing Desiros
- Scrap

I’d like to think they wouldn’t be scrapped, but I see there are other factors that are to be considered.

 

[fgwrich]

If just made dual voltage SWR have quite a reasonable number of routes that won’t ever actually need gangways, I don’t think that would actually be a show stopper. Obviously it would need management as a sub fleet, but you could for example use them on Portsmouth to Southampton, and Lymington. Four in service plus a spare. Or maybe in the Guildford/Farnham/Aldershot/Ascot area, along with normal 450s.

Indeed, I wonder how much work there would be involved to convert them to Duel Voltage? At least by sending them over to a franchise like SWR would allow for a fairly common fleet (and cause release some of the other 450s to 444 / 442 routes given the painfully slow modifications to the Plastic Pigs), even if it meant dropping a coach in the process.

 

[Speed43125]

If just made dual voltage SWR have quite a reasonable number of routes that won’t ever actually need gangways, I don’t think that would actually be a show stopper. Obviously it would need management as a sub fleet, but you could for example use them on Portsmouth to Southampton, and Lymington. Four in service plus a spare. Or maybe in the Guildford/Farnham/Aldershot/Ascot area, along with normal 450s.

I thought the 701s were going to be wholesale replacing everything? Or is only some parts of the fleet getting binned?

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the 701s were going to be wholesale replacing everything? Or is only some parts of the fleet getting binned?

Only the 707s and the 455/456/458 fleets. There’s still the 172 450/444 Desiros staying. Oh and the 442s and the DMUs.

 

[Neptune]

I thought the 701s were going to be wholesale replacing everything? Or is only some parts of the fleet getting binned?

The 701’s are just replacing 455, 456, 458 & 707’s.

 

[Speed43125]

Only the 707s and the 455/456/458 fleets. There’s still the 172 450/444 Desiros staying. Oh and the 442s and the DMUs.

The 701’s are just replacing 455, 456, 458 & 707’s.

I should have been clearer in my question, I knew the pigs were staying but that was it. Thanks both.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Can’t see any need to turn this into yet more speculative ideas.

There are more than enough 360s (18/21 needed if all diagrams are 12 car every 30 minutes on EMR, leaving 3 on maintenance) so the 5 cars are not needed.

If EMR do get Leicester electrified, it will continue to be 810s or whatever they are.

Thailand I believe are still buying these units as they are no use to anyone otherwise in this country.

 

[Domh245]

Thailand I believe are still buying these units as they are no use to anyone otherwise in this country.

Are buying, or are most likely to be buying? I've not seen any confirmation that they are actually interested, unless you have a source?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Are buying, or are most likely to be buying? I've not seen any confirmation that they are actually interested, unless you have a source?

I was told by a Siemens person that it’s due to the sheer state of the 360s out there as they declined to continue the expensive maintenance agreement and therefore cannibalised some units. As a result, they desperately need these to keep the whole lot running.