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Whenever a new franchise is issued it seems a big thing promised is free WiFi on trains. This is something the Government wants.
I was wondering though what the future of WiFi on trains is given the amount of people with large data plans on their mobiles now and also given the fact that the WiFi connections often come with internet filters which understandably block adult sites but also block video streaming sites such as BBC iPlayer and Netflix which many people enjoy using on the train.
Given the current limitations of WiFi on trains I was wondering what the future is for it. 10-15 years ago it was seen as life changing being able to access the internet on the train. Now though with 4G not so much.
It looks good and is comparatively cheap to implement so probably going to stay. What I would really like is 4G mobile signal boosters inside of trains.
Some people do not want to waste their phone battery providing a hotspot for their laptop/tablet. You could argue they could plug it in, but plug spaces are limited and it may reduce your battery life too.
A lot of business types use it but on train it seldom works. You ring up and report it to be told it must be working as 53 devices are connected to it. Ok so why are so many complaining? As far as the provider is concerned as long as the signals there it is working. It doesn't matter that nobody can connect or log in to it or having IP connection issues.
Providing a basic sevicd is a reasonable requirement. The problem is that as soon as a decent bandwidth is availble, a few users snaffle up as much of it as they can , and the facility become virtually unusable for everybody else. The TOC could of course provide so much bandwidth that sort ages would never occur but that could be prohibitively expensive so why should passengers who just want to use the railway to travel from a to b subsidise those who expect it to offer a free mobile comms. office?
Providing a basic sevicd is a reasonable requirement. The problem is that as soon as a decent bandwidth is availble, a few users snaffle up as much of it as they can , and the facility become virtually unusable for everybody else. The TOC could of course provide so much bandwidth that sort ages would never occur but that could be prohibitively expensive so why should passengers who just want to use the railway to travel from a to b subsidise those who expect it to offer a free mobile comms. office?
We live in a an ever more interconnected world, people want to be able to check social media, stream tv shows, be able to do work. I think that wifi, and free wifi at that, is a basic requirement for all trains these days. 4G and celluar connections are most likely the future on board as well.
Providing a basic sevicd is a reasonable requirement. The problem is that as soon as a decent bandwidth is availble, a few users snaffle up as much of it as they can , and the facility become virtually unusable for everybody else. The TOC could of course provide so much bandwidth that sort ages would never occur but that could be prohibitively expensive so why should passengers who just want to use the railway to travel from a to b subsidise those who expect it to offer a free mobile comms. office?
Several operators, eg. Chiltern, allow you to access WiFi at full speed up to a certain download size limit, then at reduced speed beyond that. I think that is a reasonable compromise. It allows people to use basic services like accessing email and social media, but streaming movies or massive files would be painful, ensuring maximum availability of a limited resource to all passengers.
In an ideal world we should have universal 5G and no limit on WiFi access, until then...
I also agree with the sentiment from someone above that they should really sort out onboard phone reception as a priority, so at least people can piggyback off their own phone if they wished. The likes of EMT promised for years improvements in that department but until I stopped commuting with them earlier this year, reception on Meridians was still shocking, driving me towards the HSTs whenever I could.
Once 5G works and has better coverage I think that the railways will be a customer for their WiFi as 4G is not that good for routers with a large number of devices connected which is what happens on trains.
With Mobile repeaters it's actually quite a hard job to install them as you need the 4 networks (EE, Vodafone, O2 and 3) and then you still need to provide 2G and 3G coverage.
The WiFi itself isn't really the problem, for example the max number of seats per carriage on a pendolino is 76 so there is never going to be more than 100-125 devices assuming everybody is connected to the WiFi with probably about 50 people normally, a single access point can handle that. The issue is that it still depends on 4G so you are sharing 50 mbps for 500 people, in a building you would probably have a 1000 mbps or higher connection for that many people.
The WiFi itself isn't really the problem, for example the max number of seats per carriage on a pendolino is 76 so there is never going to be more than 100-125 devices assuming everybody is connected to the WiFi with probably about 50 people normally, a single access point can handle that. The issue is that it still depends on 4G so you are sharing 50 mbps for 500 people, in a building you would probably have a 1000 mbps or higher connection for that many people.
5G is very patchy coverage and is only within cities at the moment. Having it fast in the cities isn't very useful, when you are on a train for 10 minutes it is more bother connecting to the WiFi than just using your data especially as in that time you will probably only browse the web. 5G also widely ranges in speed, in some areas it is significantly faster than others and there are patches of no signal.
Train wifi is at the mercy of mobile operators, a field in the middle of nowhere where the only thing is a railway line is low priority to them.
I have never managed to connect usefully to GWR's wifi, either on HSTs or IETs, and have given up after at least double figures of trying - not bothering with it for a while and then trying thinking that it must have improved by now - it hasn't! XC on the other hand works absolutely fine every time. I assume as XC's used to paid for they installed a better system.
Wasn't there a plan announced some years ago to improve mobile coverage on the railways? What happened to that?
Do trains use 4G for the internet or do they use Satellite? If so what network?
Also realistically given that GSM-R now covers the whole network would it be feasible to utilise the GSM-R sites to also provide an internet connection?
Do trains use 4G for the internet or do they use Satellite? If so what network?
Also realistically given that GSM-R now covers the whole network would it be feasible to utilise the GSM-R sites to also provide an internet connection?
4G, satellite can't be used due to the train moving. The network varies depending on the operator, I believe Virgin used T Mobile (now EE), don't know about the others but they use the same network your phone connects to.
Do trains use 4G for the internet or do they use Satellite? If so what network?
Also realistically given that GSM-R now covers the whole network would it be feasible to utilise the GSM-R sites to also provide an internet connection?
Also realistically given that GSM-R now covers the whole network would it be feasible to utilise the GSM-R sites to also provide an internet connection?
GSM-R is built on the same GSM technology that we used many many many moons ago (perhaps better known now as 2G), and so it offers the same GPRS data rate: 14.4 kbit/sec
Even if it offered something a bit faster (and the UIC are looking to use a 5G-derived system in the future) I doubt that there'd be much interest or desire on Network Rail's behalf to mix what is ultimately a passenger convenience with their sensitive operational communications.
But as stated above, its a 2G connection and would make the WiFi connection slow to the point it probably wouldn't be usable.
I stopped bothering with WiFi connections on trains, most of the time it's slower to load and no more reliable when travelling through cuttings and the like.
The limited data capacity that GSM-R has is reserved for railway operational use, it is not available for public use. Sharing sites would need to be very carefully managed to ensure two systems didn't interfere with each other. Generally, NetworkRail object to any public GSM service provider coming anywhere near their sites.
The WiFi itself isn't really the problem, for example the max number of seats per carriage on a pendolino is 76 so there is never going to be more than 100-125 devices assuming everybody is connected to the WiFi with probably about 50 people normally, a single access point can handle that. The issue is that it still depends on 4G so you are sharing 50 mbps for 500 people, in a building you would probably have a 1000 mbps or higher connection for that many people.
Also, even though a train could have more than one SIM (in fact, they almost certainly all do) you are sharing one or two 3G/4G and soon 5G connection with all those users. Depending on the bandwidth and number of bands supported, there is a limit to the maximum speed the network can provide.
If you have your own phone, you've got the same bandwidth all to yourself. Sure, the network may have to restrict the data if both users are consuming more than the backhaul allows, but a 5G site will have a 10Gb fibre backhaul. It therefore makes more sense to have your own phone/MiFi than all try and get a share of one single connection.
But I can't see Wi-Fi going. Some people will have a tablet or laptop that can't get online any other way (sure, you can tether to a phone but perhaps someone has a phone that is locked by their employer or something etc).
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5G is very patchy coverage and is only within cities at the moment. Having it fast in the cities isn't very useful, when you are on a train for 10 minutes it is more bother connecting to the WiFi than just using your data especially as in that time you will probably only browse the web. 5G also widely ranges in speed, in some areas it is significantly faster than others and there are patches of no signal.
Train wifi is at the mercy of mobile operators, a field in the middle of nowhere where the only thing is a railway line is low priority to them.
5G at 700MHz, like 4G at 800MHz will make a big difference. At 3400MHz, 5G isn't really going to help for moving trains.
In truth, the railway IS important to networks because a great deal of their users want and demand coverage on the move - and their biggest problem is that so many rural areas are refusing to allow new sites to be built. Groups who are now forming anti-5G groups are against ANY upgrade work, even for 4G, and landowners with sites are either refusing to allow access without being paid large sums of money OR are being intimidated by the local community and accused of helping kill people etc.
The Government are trying to make it easier for networks to install new sites (up to 15m high) without any delay but it isn't easy. There are also delays getting the fibre to these locations, as it seems these nutters are now thinking that fibre is somehow emitting radiation and so on.
But as stated above, its a 2G connection and would make the WiFi connection slow to the point it probably wouldn't be usable.
I stopped bothering with WiFi connections on trains, most of the time it's slower to load and no more reliable when travelling through cuttings and the like.
Would the railway get away with using the same sites? They must have got some special leeway for safety equipment as there are quite a few which are jolly ugly in otherwise pretty locations. Can’t see a mobile mast being popular in the same places
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