THC
Member
Anyone care to comment on this? https://www.bucksherald.co.uk/busin...on-keynes-leg-east-west-rail-link-2964474?amp
THC
THC
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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]
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Bletchleyite
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Yes, I saw that. Given how little work is needed to connect it to Aylesbury, I think this is a really bad idea.
The Planner
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Would argue it isn't little. Its already been de-scoped once and needs a new formation north of Quainton, new signalling and complete reballasting and re-railing north of Aylesbury Vale Parkway. The money has always been in Oxford to MK but it does seem daft to drop it.
Andyjs247
Member
HS2 is being built on part of the ex-GC alignment north of Quainton. A new track bed for EWR is part of the HS2 works but is also required for access to Greatmoor sidings and the waste incinerator. The new sidings on the opposite side of the EWR Aylesbury-Claydon line replace those at Calvert. AIUI there’s not much purely EWR related work as most of what is planned needs to be done to facilitate HS2 anyway.
I was thinking more about the E-W main route - if they don’t do the Aylesbury link is there anything they can cut out/should keep as passive provision.
It seems to me quite justifiable to spend time and money to review the options. Taxpayers' money must be spent wisely and it's for the elected government to do that, whatever railway 'enthusiasts' may want.
IF EWR is to run to near capacity (For a return on investment) the rails need to facilitate journeys that folk will make, or allow for changes to be made in the fullness of time.
So, floating some thoughts-
1. IF EW trains are to run to MK then either more track or capacity is needed Bletchley-MK, and space found if another track.
2. I note that currently there are 4tph each way Bletchley-MK (4 minute journey at irregular intervals); will folk change at Bletchley for MK if it takes maybe 30 mins at 'wrong' time?
3. Possible recreate Aylesbury to a bay at Verney Jct, change for East and/or West (or to Winslow, taking up 1tph of EW capacity)?
4. A shuttle of some kind Bletchley-MK maybe electric robotics like the 'Starship' electric delivery robots already in MK?
5. Opportunity for 'boffins' in Oxford and Cambridge to 'think outside the box'- will they ever use EWR - why would they when they can work at home? Even Stagecoach is uncertain- note ex X5 truncation.
I would understand if EWR stopped now. North-South electric spine collapsed ...
I sense swapping emphasis to 'decarboning' Chiltern line- last diesels into London?
IF EWR is to run to near capacity (For a return on investment) the rails need to facilitate journeys that folk will make, or allow for changes to be made in the fullness of time.
So, floating some thoughts-
1. IF EW trains are to run to MK then either more track or capacity is needed Bletchley-MK, and space found if another track.
2. I note that currently there are 4tph each way Bletchley-MK (4 minute journey at irregular intervals); will folk change at Bletchley for MK if it takes maybe 30 mins at 'wrong' time?
3. Possible recreate Aylesbury to a bay at Verney Jct, change for East and/or West (or to Winslow, taking up 1tph of EW capacity)?
4. A shuttle of some kind Bletchley-MK maybe electric robotics like the 'Starship' electric delivery robots already in MK?
5. Opportunity for 'boffins' in Oxford and Cambridge to 'think outside the box'- will they ever use EWR - why would they when they can work at home? Even Stagecoach is uncertain- note ex X5 truncation.
I would understand if EWR stopped now. North-South electric spine collapsed ...
I sense swapping emphasis to 'decarboning' Chiltern line- last diesels into London?
InTheEastMids
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So if you have to build it anyway, and the real issue is Bletchley- MK capacity, then why not combine the Aylesbury service with the Marston Vale and get people to change at Bletchley. A lack of direct Aylesbury-MK services wouldn't seem ideal, but if the changes are slick, it avoids or at least defers some expensive and disruptive work on the WCML.
Especially if the Aylesbury-MK service would need to be some older DMU that'd otherwise look like a rolling roadblock compared to the new 730s.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
On a background that commuting is never likely to be back to previous levels, I'm not clear why there is a lack of paths. There might be in the pre COVID peak timetable but I am not convinced that will ever run again.
The Planner
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Nothing can get culled off that, the route has to stay open to Aylesbury regardless, so it will be a case of reopening it to the standard it is now, ie: not high.
You are assuming there will be a reduction in slow line passenger paths, there is no intention of doing that (yet)
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Seems a bit silly to me. I think there are numbers to be won on that part of the route - however how & where we work may have changed and cash is going to be in short supply in the coming years so some hard decisions are going to be needed.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I agree - I simply worry about the state of the economy in the years to come post COVID and Brexit. We may not have money to pay for it
It seems a shame that more house-building and 'new towns' or 'garden cities' aren't being planned along there with new stations. It is a line through not very much right now. Perhaps it could have more freight purpose somehow - but access from the NLL/WLL is very convoluted.
That said, I get it as it's slow to London, and 1tph diesel through nothing is quite sparse - and it has already been watered down. Reinstating it to via HW and to Old Oak might be more appealing. But then again, the path between MKC and Winslow might be better put to use.
I understand why it is the runt of the project right now, but in the long term, it could still generate more purpose.
That said, I get it as it's slow to London, and 1tph diesel through nothing is quite sparse - and it has already been watered down. Reinstating it to via HW and to Old Oak might be more appealing. But then again, the path between MKC and Winslow might be better put to use.
I understand why it is the runt of the project right now, but in the long term, it could still generate more purpose.
In the light of current rail usage, I can see the EWR service starting as a 1tph extension to Oxford of the current Bedford-Bletchley service, perhaps with some of the Marston Vale station stops being converted to 'parliamentary' or 'school train only' status.
The Planner
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Not a chance, it is all about getting an Oxford to MK service going.
The one "pause for thought" I'd like to see is how EWR would interact with the new A428 project. One would hope that Highways England are planning the works with EWR in mind to prevent the area around St Neots and Camborne being dug up twice within a few years.
ABB125
Established Member
Joined up thinking? In Britain? Have you been drinking too much?
On a more serious note, I would have thought that there would most likely just be a simple bridge crossing between the road and railway; the problem is, we don't know where that crossing might be, and I suspect HE don't know either. Hopefully there is a clause is the A428 build contract allowing such a change of scope as and where necessary.
Alternatively, 1 tph from Oxford to Milton Keynes, and change at Bletchley for Bedford. Maybe even worse.
The line wouldn't be worth it for 1tph. But I could see maybe Oxford 2tph to MKC and 1tph to Bedford (+ Marston) as a baseline. This will be here for 100 years +, so I'm not too concerned about Covid demand for this type of infrastructure.
We don't even know what next year looks like. But we've had crises, wars, depressions before - travel will return. Population growth (both ways) hopefully too.
We don't even know what next year looks like. But we've had crises, wars, depressions before - travel will return. Population growth (both ways) hopefully too.
Joined up thinking? In Britain? Have you been drinking too much?
On a more serious note, I would have thought that there would most likely just be a simple bridge crossing between the road and railway; the problem is, we don't know where that crossing might be, and I suspect HE don't know either. Hopefully there is a clause is the A428 build contract allowing such a change of scope as and where necessary.
Indeed - the lack of joined up thinking has been one of the biggest failures of UK Infrastructure planning for decades. Remember Prescott's "Integrated Transport Plan" in 2000 which never saw the light of day again? I had some hopes that the National Infrastructure Commission would be able to make a difference but that has turned into another talking shop which generates yet more shiny reports.
In addition to the A428 project and EWR, there is also the proposed extension of the Cambridge Guided Bus to Cambourne and the Cambridge Automated Metro
It's good to see the area getting some long overdue transport investment but please could the groups actually talk to each other.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Sadly that isn't an argument that carries any water.
Funny how nobody ever says there isn't enough money to buy nukes, or other weapons, etc. There's always enough for those. There's always enough to spaff hundreds of millions on sheer utter wastage, i.e. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/07/08/calls-inquiry-treasury-reveals-15bn-cost-ppe/
..how many times would that last one have paid for Aylesbury to MK alone?
...and it's amazing how little has been said about the scandal of how quantitative easing has been used to funnel wealth into the hands of the richest and has actually damaged the economy instead of helping it. Had they spent that money on giving everyone in the country a lump sum it would have had far more dramatic effect than being stuck in private investment funds somewhere as it would have kick started ecomomic activity by actually getting spent. https://www.investopedia.com/bank-of-england-expands-quantitative-easing-by-gbp100-billion-5025719
Hell, if they'd even just spent it on public works like EWR it would have had more effect.
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
You are making a false comparison that shows little understanding of how public funding works.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I give up. It is pointless on here at times. You are making childish false comparisons that aren't worth a response.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The comparison being made is between apples and kingfishers. The argument offered of "yeah but Trident" wont wash. Only the PM can make that kind of call. A more "apply" comparison would be making a case that investing in the mythical M6000 doesn't offer as good a return as investing in this railway line.
In any event if the government asks for a 25% ( say) cut in departmental expenditure post covid and post brexit it wont matter. Things will be binned. This might be one of them.
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