Restoring Your Railway Fund: what ideas would you suggest?

[stuu]

Barnstaple - Instow - Bideford would seem like a sensible extension - 20k in Bideford, another 20k in the hinterland. Hard to see a case for going on to Torrington, but presumably there was a reason that Bideford made the cut for the 2009 ATOC Connecting Communities Report. @ChiefPlanner , could you enlighten us?

Yes, Bideford might be worthwhile, but the bid is for light rail to Braunton, which almost certainly isn't

 

[YorksLad12]

I'd quite like to see Keswick to Penrith reopen, as some friends of mine are moving up near Keswick soon. Don't think that would count as a valid reason to do it though...

Looking at it on the map I doubt it would be a reopening via the old, circuitous route anyway - running it mostly alongside the A66 except when they needed to get around something would make more sense.

 

[Brush 4]

Keswick is out among many others, at least for the time being.

DfT reveals rejected rail restoration bids | Railnews | Today's news for Tomorrow's railway

www.railnews.co.uk

 

[YorksLad12]

Keswick is out among many others, at least for the time being.

DfT reveals rejected rail restoration bids | Railnews | Today's news for Tomorrow's railway

www.railnews.co.uk

I know. And even if it wasn't it wouldn't be a quick (5 years or less) win. Still, a man can dream...

 

[swt_passenger]

The only new information in the public domain published today is round 1 applications. It is interesting that they have chosen to publish today without a round 2 announcement.

Round 1 failed applications is the new bit?
But although round 1 approvals is now re-dated as 8 Sept, it’s still the same list as was published in May. I think there’s some intentional muddying of the waters going on here. So exactly why did they need to re-date the May list?

 

[A0]

I'd quite like to see Keswick to Penrith reopen, as some friends of mine are moving up near Keswick soon. Don't think that would count as a valid reason to do it though...

Looking at it on the map I doubt it would be a reopening via the old, circuitous route anyway - running it mostly alongside the A66 except when they needed to get around something would make more sense.

The Keswick one's done the rounds on here a few times - it's unlikely for several reasons - this thread covers quite alot of them https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cedric-martindale-proposes-penrith-to-keswick-reopening.205416/

Clitheroe-Hellifield is an obvious one to me as the line exists and is used as a diversionary and Railtour route anyway.

It seems simple - but isn't there a challenge at Hellifield in terms of signalling or pointwork ? Also the current service to Clitheroe does sit there for 30 mins before heading back - the line up to Hellifield is a further 13 miles, not sure you could get there and back in that 30 mins and maintain the current timetable - and if you end up needing more trains / staff that might well destroy the business case for it.

Agree re the Isle Of Wight seeming a bit... strange... but the others look fairly reasonable, especially when you compare them to the weird and wonderful list of perennial hopefuls - I guess I'd go for the Bury - Rochdale scheme as the best one (it's a corridor that can sustain a frequent bus service, it's fairly simple, it's not got some grandiose pretentions at being a resilient addition to the national network - it's just a short/basic extension to the network)

Agree completely on the IoW - unless they were looking at light rail across the island with a commensurate reduction in the bus services, I can't see that one ever happening.

Bury - Rochdale seems to make sense - question is 'how' it is executed. The obvious option would be something involving an extension to Metrolink and probably onto Bolton into the bargain as that's another corridor (Bury - Bolton) which sustains a frequent bus service. Finding a suitable route though may be more problematic - you've got the ELR to consider between Heywood and Bury and the old Bury - Bolton formation has been breached in a few places as well.

 

[Irascible]

Yes, Bideford might be worthwhile, but the bid is for light rail to Braunton, which almost certainly isn't

Yes - the only worthwhile thing would be all the way to Ilfracombe ( I posted reasons for it some time back ) - but that would have a microscopic chance of ever happening I'd think, given you'd have to either go through Braunton which is still mostly clear but god knows how many crossings - or round it. Perhaps if DCC ever gets left a fund by some philanthrophist to be spent on deprived areas... right, back to reality. Bideford seems interesting in a convenience-for-Exeter sense, but it does look a bit quicker by road to Barnstaple. At least DCC preserved the corridor & made sure the new bridge at Barnstaple has a hole in the right place.

Awaiting the details of Cullompton & Wellington with interest, to see what exactly is going to stop there.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Dissapointed at Beverley-York although not suprised considering the sheer amount of deviation required just to get around Stamford Bridge and Huntington, the 'Minsters Rail Campaign' would have been better off calling for the Selby - Market Weighton - Beverley line to be reopened first!

 

[YorksLad12]

The Keswick one's done the rounds on here a few times - it's unlikely for several reasons - this thread covers quite alot of them https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cedric-martindale-proposes-penrith-to-keswick-reopening.205416/

Interesting read - thank you.

 

[A0]

Yes - the only worthwhile thing would be all the way to Ilfracombe ( I posted reasons for it some time back ) - but that would have a microscopic chance of ever happening I'd think, given you'd have to either go through Braunton which is still mostly clear but god knows how many crossings - or round it. Perhaps if DCC ever gets left a fund by some philanthrophist to be spent on deprived areas... right, back to reality. Bideford seems interesting in a convenience-for-Exeter sense, but it does look a bit quicker by road to Barnstaple. At least DCC preserved the corridor & made sure the new bridge at Barnstaple has a hole in the right place.

Awaiting the details of Cullompton & Wellington with interest, to see what exactly is going to stop there.

Could it be they are thinking of making the whole of the Barnstaple - Exeter line some form of Tram / Train and their thought process is that to get to Braunton (or anywhere over the river) could be done by running over one of the existing road bridges with on-road running ?

 

[Irascible]

Could it be they are thinking of making the whole of the Barnstaple - Exeter line some form of Tram / Train and their thought process is that to get to Braunton (or anywhere over the river) could be done by running over one of the existing road bridges with on-road running ?

The initial plan appears/appeared to be not even to connect to Barnstaple station. The idea seems to be to ease congestion on the main road ( I suspect there's a fair bit of it that's going through Braunton, so that is hardly going to help ) & ease parking issues in Barnstaple. It's 6 miles, so it does seem a bit of a heavy hammer to swing at the problem...

 

[Tobbes]

The initial plan appears/appeared to be not even to connect to Barnstaple station. The idea seems to be to ease congestion on the main road ( I suspect there's a fair bit of it that's going through Braunton, so that is hardly going to help ) & ease parking issues in Barnstaple. It's 6 miles, so it does seem a bit of a heavy hammer to swing at the problem...

If true, that's ridiculous.

 

[CptCharlee]

Tavistock-Okehampton was rejected as the bid was too far advanced for just a feasibility study.

 

[stuu]

Awaiting the details of Cullompton & Wellington with interest, to see what exactly is going to stop there.

The sensible thing would be to extend the Taunton-Cardiff trains to Exeter, rather than expect XC or GWR to stop

 

[cle]

Round 1 failed applications is the new bit?
But although round 1 approvals is now re-dated as 8 Sept, it’s still the same list as was published in May. I think there’s some intentional muddying of the waters going on here. So exactly why did they need to re-date the May list?

Surely by announcing those which survived, they announce the ones discarded? That's a horribly written article too.

 

[Killingworth]

Surely by announcing those which survived, they announce the ones discarded? That's a horribly written article too.

There is indeed muddying of the waters. My understanding is that while early ones that have been accepted are ones that fully met the criteria, others were close and have been asked to provide further information. Some will, some won't. A few may get into the next round.

I still have doubts that any will be restored post-COVID, other than perhaps a token few. Yesterday I walked through the site of the former Market Weighton station on the Beverley - York route. Much of it's covered with fairly new houses.

 

[Mag_seven]

Government has published how this scheme will work.

To quote from their guidance

We have designed this process to be as straightforward as possible, rooted in the community and sponsored by local MPs. For the first round the key steps are:

· we need an expression of interest from your MP by 28 February, if you want to be in the first round of assessments

· we need a short submission making your case by 16 March 2020

· following this you be asked to pitch your proposal to a panel of experts in late March

· we hope to announce which proposals we will offer funding to within 2 weeks of the panel

· winners agree the broad train service specification to be investigated with officials

· winners work with us to develop the project’s business case to submit to the department to make the case for the project receiving more substantial development funding


So you might want to flag up to your MP asap any schemes in your area that are being proposed.

New information published on round 3 today:

Restoring Your Railway Fund: bids received - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

List, by funding round, of all the bids made to the Restoring Your Railway Ideas Fund. Round 3 bids are currently under assessment, and bid names may be subject to change following initial assessment.

To date, 3 rounds of applications have been completed.

 

[Bald Rick]

Many of the Round 3 submissions are resubmission from earlier rounds that were unsuccessful.

 

[Tobbes]

Many of the Round 3 submissions are resubmission from earlier rounds that were unsuccessful.

One can only hope that they were significantly revised in the interim!

 

[Halifaxlad]

Thanks for posting the info.

Mablethorpe is an interesting proposal.

Quite like it, used to holiday they're many years ago!

 

[Irascible]

Bude-Okehampton. If that ever makes it then anything can! ( I mean, I'd love it, once a year, don't get me wrong... ). Lynton & Barnstaple - shouldn't that be from whatever the heritage pot was called?. "Shepton Mallet to Somerset" - where in Somerset!

I fear useful projects may be drowned in wishful thinking here... ( and I guess noone actually does love Ilfracombe, they suggested everywhere else! ).

 

[A0]

New information published on round 3 today:

Restoring Your Railway Fund: bids received - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Never have so many crayons died in vain.

Far too many of the usual suspects which have been thoroughly debunked on here more times than I care to count.

One or two suggestions which make sense.

I'm sure those gifted with the task of reviewing these will be having a good laugh.

 

[DerekC]

There are some oddities here:

• Newcastle to Berwick on Tweed? (I don't recall this one closing)
• Gravity Site - Bristol to Exeter Mainline Railway (what on earth? Is it downhill all the way?)
• Extension of the Riviera Line (I assume that's Cornwall - but where to? Taking over the Dartmouth heritage line??)

(pity DfT can't spell Harrogate, but that's a detail).

The more you look at this the more you realise it's just political puff. 75% of the costs of developing a business case up to £50K? That's only going to work for amateur projects - the professionals won't turn a wheel for that much money. Any why launch round 3 before (as far as I know) any of Rounds 1 and 2 have reached the next stage? The 25 schemes funded so far at the "Ideas Fund" stage will cost the Treasury £1.25M - less than half the cost of the new Downing Street briefing room. They obviously think the publicity generated is worth it, and keeping the ball rolling on will maintain interest and make sure there aren't any losers to complain.

 

[A0]

There are some oddities here:

• Newcastle to Berwick on Tweed? (I don't recall this one closing)
• Gravity Site - Bristol to Exeter Mainline Railway (what on earth? Is it downhill all the way?)
• Extension of the Riviera Line (I assume that's Cornwall - but where to? Taking over the Dartmouth heritage line??)

(pity DfT can't spell Harrogate, but that's a detail).

The more you look at this the more you realise it's just political puff. 75% of the costs of developing a business case up to £50K? That's only going to work for amateur projects - the professionals won't turn a wheel for that much money. Any why launch round 3 before (as far as I know) any of Rounds 1 and 2 have reached the next stage? The 25 schemes funded so far at the "Ideas Fund" stage will cost the Treasury £1.25M - less than half the cost of the new Downing Street briefing room. They obviously think the publicity generated is worth it, and keeping the ball rolling on will maintain interest and make sure there aren't any losers to complain.

It's not always about reopening a line, but instead about reinstating stations and services along the line. The point on Newcastle - Berwick is there are regular services to Morpeth, a patchy stopping service north of Morpeth provided by a mix of Northern, XC and LNER. I guess what they're looking at is a regular stopping service running from Berwick - Newcastle serving places like Belford en route.

 

[DerekC]

It's not always about reopening a line, but instead about reinstating stations and services along the line. The point on Newcastle - Berwick is there are regular services to Morpeth, a patchy stopping service north of Morpeth provided by a mix of Northern, XC and LNER. I guess what they're looking at is a regular stopping service running from Berwick - Newcastle serving places like Belford en route.

Point taken - but in the interests of transparency (which is what DfT says it wants to achieve) you might think they could have added a few more words so that people can understand at least the outline of the proposal.

 

[Bald Rick]

Point taken - but in the interests of transparency (which is what DfT says it wants to achieve) you might think they could have added a few more words so that people can understand at least the outline of the proposal.

That will come.

 

[Killingworth]

Never have so many crayons died in vain.

Far too many of the usual suspects which have been thoroughly debunked on here more times than I care to count.

One or two suggestions which make sense.

I'm sure those gifted with the task of reviewing these will be having a good laugh.

Absolutely. Here we are with masses of all but empty trains running around costing billions and we want to spend potentially many more billions to run more of them. Even the most enthusiastic railway supporter must see that isn't realistic.

It seems most of the 1st and 2nd round applicants that weren't successfu submitted again. It will be interesting to see how long the process can be strung out before the door is finally locked on submissions. Then how long those accepted will take before anything actual happens to benefit passengers. In the meantime consultants should live well from feasibility studies.

If only we had capacity in mainline termini for the new services, and slack in mainline paths to allow stops at new wayside stations, before we even start thinking of new construction.

Of course we all have our favourite/s. However new links like Werrington to improve what we still have seem to offer better value for money. But new chords for freight don't generate the same emotional appeal, possibly outright opposition.

 

[CptCharlee]

Tavistock to Plymouth reinstatement better win. That's been needed for so long.

 

[A0]

Absolutely. Here we are with masses of all but empty trains running around costing billions and we want to spend potentially many more billions to run more of them. Even the most enthusiastic railway supporter must see that isn't realistic.

It seems most of the 1st and 2nd round applicants that weren't successfu submitted again. It will be interesting to see how long the process can be strung out before the door is finally locked on submissions. Then how long those accepted will take before anything actual happens to benefit passengers. In the meantime consultants should live well from feasibility studies.

If only we had capacity in mainline termini for the new services, and slack in mainline paths to allow stops at new wayside stations, before we even start thinking of new construction.

Of course we all have our favourite/s. However new links like Werrington to improve what we still have seem to offer better value for money. But new chords for freight don't generate the same emotional appeal, possibly outright opposition.

BIB - you'd like to think so wouldn't you. But sadly I think you're wrong. You only need to look around social media every time some of the madcap schemes get proposed to see people who genuinely and honestly believe that their random scheme is viable and would somehow justify and hourly (or better) service using modern rolling stock and be full to the rafters, whilst ignoring the simple fact that established lines not very far away are carting around fresh air most of the day.

 

[Bald Rick]

It will be interesting to see how long the process can be strung out before the door is finally locked on submissions.

Well the door is closed now, and the key is in the lock...