RTT - Query; "Service Passed Another Here".

[Deepgreen]

I have seen the note "Service Passed Another Here" on many RTT pages of late, and, while it makes sense at locations where overtaking is possible, it has also cropped up at many places where it isn't. The example attached is from today, and the Gomshall stop for this engineering working is a case in point. The train in question does not pass anything here in either direction, and no other train is even close to it. The note is also always in the past tense, even way before the event. I'd be grateful for any information about what's behind the notes in these circumstances.

 

[Paul Kelly]

The note is also always in the past tense, even way before the event.

I can't answer your wider question but the explanation for this is that it's simply a note in the planned schedule, an activity shown against that location. It's not a report on what has or hasn't happened on the day.

That it doesn't seem to make sense today might be something to do with interactions with the reduced coronavirus schedules though?

 

[swt_passenger]

Tom attempted to explain it in post #483 in the main RTT thread.

RealTimeTrains website

One minor downside to the "favicon" introduction, at least I think that's the connection: on my phone (iphone), I keep a bunch of local stations as bookmarks. Before the favicon, they each took the first letter of the (editable) bookmark name as their icon, but now they're all the same, so not...

www.railforums.co.uk

I have also noticed a few references to trains that were stationary in a loop being described as doing the passing, rather than being passed. I think the answer is it just isn’t that accurate in the source data.

 

[Deepgreen]

I can't answer your wider question but the explanation for this is that it's simply a note in the planned schedule, an activity shown against that location. It's not a report on what has or hasn't happened on the day.

That it doesn't seem to make sense today might be something to do with interactions with the reduced coronavirus schedules though?

Thanks for the reply. I've seen it for workings at locations where, no matter what the schedules being operated (and with engineering works not in place), passing would not be possible without wrong line working, etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2020 ==

Tom attempted to explain it in post #483 in the main RTT thread.

RealTimeTrains website

One minor downside to the "favicon" introduction, at least I think that's the connection: on my phone (iphone), I keep a bunch of local stations as bookmarks. Before the favicon, they each took the first letter of the (editable) bookmark name as their icon, but now they're all the same, so not...

www.railforums.co.uk

I have also noticed a few references to trains that were stationary in a loop being described as doing the passing, rather than being passed. I think the answer is it just isn’t that accurate in the source data.

Thanks - the source data may be the key, but my examples have been on a laptop, not an iPhone. It seems odd for even source data to assign the possibility of passing (at least in the same direction) where none exists. Edit - the train in my example actually just ran straight through Gomshall anyway!

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks - the source data may be the key, but my examples have been on a laptop, not an iPhone. It seems odd for even source data to assign the possibility of passing (at least in the same direction) where none exists. Edit - the train in my example actually just ran straight through Gomshall anyway!

I think that quote is just the way the forum software repeats only the top part of the linked post, (it’s two separate and unrelated subjects in one) and the first part isn’t relevant to this discussion.

Heres an example of a “Service passed another train” at Botley for no obvious reason:

Realtime Trains - 1T42 1159 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Maybe it’s just being used to highlight that if the up service is late getting off the single line it will delay the down train?

 

[Ianno87]

Tom attempted to explain it in post #483 in the main RTT thread.

RealTimeTrains website

One minor downside to the "favicon" introduction, at least I think that's the connection: on my phone (iphone), I keep a bunch of local stations as bookmarks. Before the favicon, they each took the first letter of the (editable) bookmark name as their icon, but now they're all the same, so not...

www.railforums.co.uk

I have also noticed a few references to trains that were stationary in a loop being described as doing the passing, rather than being passed. I think the answer is it just isn’t that accurate in the source data.

Yes - there's just one code input into planning systems. No differentiation to trains passing or being passed.

I think that quote is just the way the forum software repeats only the top part of the linked post, (it’s two separate and unrelated subjects in one) and the first part isn’t relevant to this discussion.

Heres an example of a “passes another train” at Botley for no obvious reason:

Realtime Trains - 1T42 1159 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Maybe it’s just being used to highlight that if the up service is late getting off the single line it will delay the down train?

Yes, that is a common use of the code.

Also an aide-memoir to planners to be mindful of retiming the train at the point.

 

[AndyPJG]

Heres an example of a “Service passed another train” at Botley for no obvious reason:

Realtime Trains - 1T42 1159 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Maybe it’s just being used to highlight that if the up service is late getting off the single line it will delay the down train?

Probably a quirk of the system seeing the RHTT timed to pass Botley around that time, but being cancelled.

 

[swt_passenger]

Probably a quirk of the system seeing the RHTT timed to pass Botley around that time, but being cancelled.

But not every hour all day, that flag is shown irrespective of the RHTT running.

 

[I13]

In this case, the extended dwell and what I presume is an 'A' activity code at Gomshall seems to be to get the train behind the Southern Reigate starter 1R25, rather than add an excessive amount of pathing time approaching Reigate. Gomshall is the last mandatory timing point (a location where all trains are timed) before Reigate, so I guess it makes sense to apply the stop there. The 'A' would give a clue to planners/signallers as to why the train is stopping at Gomshall (as opposed to changing crew, for instance).

 

[Deepgreen]

In this case, the extended dwell and what I presume is an 'A' activity code at Gomshall seems to be to get the train behind the Southern Reigate starter 1R25, rather than add an excessive amount of pathing time approaching Reigate. Gomshall is the last mandatory timing point (a location where all trains are timed) before Reigate, so I guess it makes sense to apply the stop there. The 'A' would give a clue to planners/signallers as to why the train is stopping at Gomshall (as opposed to changing crew, for instance).

Hmm - I understand what you are saying but it only stopped at Gomshall for 30 seconds (after arriving late) and departed early, so it would seem to be more likely to catch up the preceding train. Indeed, it hung around outside Reigate as the preceding GWR train was actually 7 late anyway and the Reigate starter left on time, so the concept of it dwelling at Gomshall would have been even more useful, but wasn't applied. If it had run on time and had simply passed through Gomshall it would have run 15 minutes earlier thereafter, and would have been through Reigate well before the starter's departure anyway. For an engineering vehicle, I would have thought a bit of hanging around 'ad lib' would be unimportant. I suppose what may be at work here is an optional pathing function, but it's odd that it wasn't used on a day when it would actually have made sense.

 

[Ianno87]

Hmm - I understand what you are saying but it only stopped at Gomshall for 30 seconds (after arriving late) and departed early, so it would seem to be more likely to catch up the preceding train. Indeed, it hung around outside Reigate as the preceding GWR train was actually 7 late anyway and the Reigate starter left on time, so the concept of it dwelling at Gomshall would have been even more useful, but wasn't applied. If it had run on time and had simply passed through Gomshall it would have run 15 minutes earlier thereafter, and would have been through Reigate well before the starter's departure anyway. For an engineering vehicle, I would have thought a bit of hanging around 'ad lib' would be unimportant. I suppose what may be at work here is an optional pathing function, but it's odd that it wasn't used on a day when it would actually have made sense.

With the long block sections around there, showing it as a pathing stop (rather than a pass time with pathing thereafter) stops accidentally pathing a further train through afterwarsa - which may be technically compliant with the headway planning rules but in practice not workable due to the limited block sections.

 

[Deepgreen]

With the long block sections around there, showing it as a pathing stop (rather than a pass time with pathing thereafter) stops accidentally pathing a further train through afterwarsa - which may be technically compliant with the headway planning rules but in practice not workable due to the limited block sections.

Good point - thanks.