'We can save London's centre by testing public transport and passengers'

[holborncentral]

We can save London’s centre by testing public transport and passengers

Today I’m bringing together major office employers from the City and West End to look at how we bring workers back to offices as safely and as soon as possible — reviving the central London economy as a result.If we want the country’s economy to recover from coronavirus, we need central London to l

www.thetimes.co.uk

Some key points from the article (most of it's behind a paywall)

'We must work urgently to give people the confidence to travel to work, and make it easy for them, even if just for part of the week. I would like TfL, commuter rail operators and the Mayor of London to seriously consider the following three-point plan.

First, I would like TfL and the train companies to investigate regular swabbing of our tubes, trains and buses for Covid-19. Regular random testing of our seats, handrails and doors will give people the confidence that travelling on our public transport is safe. If coronavirus is detected anywhere we can respond quickly with measures such as closing and deep cleaning the immediate area in question. Swab testing has already taken place on the New York transit system and will go a long way in giving passengers the confidence that their commute to and from work is safe.

Next, station staff should temperature-check passengers as they enter our tube and overground stations or at ticket barriers. It’s already happening in many of our shops and gyms across the country, and it takes a couple of seconds — well worth it if it gives people a bit more reassurance about travelling on public transport. There will obviously be logistical issues around taking the temperature of a million plus commuters, but even random testing at key stations could offer confidence and comfort to concerned travellers

Finally, while we are encouraging people to use public transport, cycle and walk where they can, the mayor should temporarily remove the congestion charge at evenings and weekends and undertake a proper study to understand present traffic flow into the capital. The congestion charge has been a vital tool in improving our air quality, and we must never neglect this important task. However, the £15-a-day seven-days-a-week charge is hurting our small independent businesses and large employers alike at a time when many of them are fighting to recover from the lockdown and struggling to survive. It has simply become a tax on economic recovery and is likely to cost thousands of job losses.'

What do you think? Does it make sense or would these plans not work at all?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

What do you think? Does it make sense or would these plans not work at all?

I think swabbing could make sense. It might demonstrate whether infected surfaces are really a risk of transmission and if they are, it would give a measure of how many people are travelling around with the virus.

 

[Mojo]

First, I would like TfL and the train companies to investigate regular swabbing of our tubes, trains and buses for Covid-19.

This is already done. A number of tests (known as surface sampling) have been carried out of high-contact surfaces and none have to date come back as positive for Covid.

In part this could be due to regular cleaning as well as use of a long-lasting surface treatment.

 

[Ianno87]

Withdrawing the congestion charge, which is basically essential to TfL's finances, would be crazy.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Withdrawing the congestion charge, which is basically essential to TfL's finances, would be crazy.

More than that, it wouldn't improve mobility or the possibility of more people getting into central London anyway...

Even a one-third full bus is a much more efficient use of road space than a private car. Furthermore, if all those cars disappeared from the roads of inner London, buses would move faster, and hence the same number of buses would make more journeys, and so carry more passengers. (And carry them more speedily.) With cars out of the way, it's quite possible that the more efficient bus service, even with the same occupancy levels as now, would cope with the people displaced from their cars; and if that wasn't quite the case, there'd be room for some extra buses.

And the idea that cutting car levels in the centre is harming businesses doesn't make sense to me. A major reason I don't like central London is the congested and filthy traffic. Cut out a lot of that and I'd be more likely to be out patronising the restaurants and so on.

One thing, though, is that mask-wearing on public transport needs vigorous enforcement. At the moment, nothing seems to be done about the significant minority who aren't covering their faces.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think the ⅓ bus limit needs to be reviewed. I observed last week a number of groups travelling together. This resulted in lots of people bunched together (why wouldn’t you as a family of 4 for example) and lots of wasted space as people got turned away.

the tube has more people per m2.

this restriction was means people don’t think it is safe, therefore drive. It is a common theme.

as for cycling in central London. I still don’t feel safe with the amount of cars that only are bothered about themselves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2020 ==

One thing, though, is that mask-wearing on public transport needs vigorous enforcement. At the moment, nothing seems to be done about the significant minority who aren't covering their faces.

who could all have perfectly good reasons not to. We need to avoid this lack of trust. We don’t ask someone in a wheelchair to demonstrate they need it do we?

The irony is that the current government policy to tackle COVID is making life much worse for people with respiratory illness as more people are driving and increasing pollution levels.

I am sure I am more likely to die if air pollution then COVID. But no-one seems interested (within the government) of reducing that risk.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I think the ⅓ bus limit needs to be reviewed. I observed last week a number of groups travelling together. This resulted in lots of people bunched together (why wouldn’t you as a family of 4 for example) and lots of wasted space as people got turned away.

the tube has more people per m2.

this restriction was means people don’t think it is safe, therefore drive. It is a common theme.

as for cycling in central London. I still don’t feel safe with the amount of cars that only are bothered about themselves.

Indeed - yet another reason for kicking cars out of London.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2020 ==


who could all have perfectly good reasons not to. We need to avoid this lack of trust. We don’t ask someone in a wheelchair to demonstrate they need it do we?

Yes, some could have reasons - but I don't believe it likely in the case of everyone in several bunches of people I saw on the tube the other evening. If it was policed, then people with exemptions could say so. I'm sure that only applies to a small proportion of those not wearing face coverings.

The irony is that the current government policy to tackle COVID is making life much worse for people with respiratory illness as more people are driving and increasing pollution levels.

I am sure I am more likely to die if air pollution then COVID. But no-one seems interested (within the government) of reducing that risk.

Absolutely - the health (and not only physical health) effects of London traffic is a scandal. All the more reason not to allow more cars into London under the pretext of "improving" travel during the pandemic.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The irony is that the current government policy to tackle COVID is making life much worse for people with respiratory illness as more people are driving and increasing pollution levels.

I am sure I am more likely to die of air pollution then COVID. But no-one seems interested (within the government) of reducing that risk.

Agreed - And Covid itself is a respiratory disease of course.

 

[Taunton]

Next, station staff should temperature-check passengers as they enter our tube and overground stations or at ticket barriers

Notably, on the DLR this morning, at South Quay, the only staff visible were a huge group on a Revenue Sting.

 

[whoosh]

The Tube and mainline railways are using a product called 'Zoono' on surfaces (handrails, tables, door buttons, etc.). It lasts for 30 days between applications.
It bonds to surfaces and makes it very hard for viruses and bacteria to cling and grow.

Swab tests have been done on London Underground when the product was being trialled, and after two weeks, not only was there no coronavirus on the handrails, but the level of bacteria and viruses was so low that the surface of the handrail could've been used for food preparation - quite unthinkable really!

The railways and TfL have worked hard to keep things as safe as possible, but as society is tentatively reawakening it hasn't really been shouted about.

 

[rebmcr]

The Tube and mainline railways are using a product called 'Zoono' on surfaces (handrails, tables, door buttons, etc.). It lasts for 30 days between applications.
It bonds to surfaces and makes it very hard for viruses and bacteria to cling and grow.

Swab tests have been done on London Underground when the product was being trialled, and after two weeks, not only was there no coronavirus on the handrails, but the level of bacteria and viruses was so low that the surface of the handrail could've been used for food preparation - quite unthinkable really!

The railways and TfL have worked hard to keep things as safe as possible, but as society is tentatively reawakening it hasn't really been shouted about.

They should carry on using it forever! My rate of illness when commuting in London was noticably higher than when not, and I'm reasonably sure the grab bars were a decent part of that.

 

[telstarbox]

"Giving people the confidence to travel to work" is missing the point. Many of the office-type employers in central London are not rushing to bring their staff back because their operations have mostly carried on fine with staff working from home.

 

[whoosh]

They should carry on using it forever! My rate of illness when commuting in London was noticably higher than when not, and I'm reasonably sure the grab bars were a decent part of that.

I agree!

 

[Taunton]

They should carry on using it forever! My rate of illness when commuting in London was noticeably higher than when not, and I'm reasonably sure the grab bars were a decent part of that.

It's not only the grab bars, it's the whole internal close-packed environment.

TOC attitudes over time of minimalist 2-car formations, standing passengers even at off-peak times while half the fleet is in sidings (because both NR and their train leaser charge by the vehicle-mile), etc, do not help.

 

[philthetube]

I think people not using masks should be required to use shields to give protection, partly because of the protection issues but also because these are far more inconvenient than masks and so most avoiders would use masks.

The only people who should have issues with that would be those with learning difficulties.

 

[Ianno87]

"Giving people the confidence to travel to work" is missing the point. Many of the office-type employers in central London are not rushing to bring their staff back because their operations have mostly carried on fine with staff working from home.

I agree - I don't think lack of confidence is a significant issue beyond a small minority.

 

[Taunton]

Notwithstanding current government encouragement, TfL radio ads played this afternoon (the one voiced by a "bus driver") stated you "must" do bike or walking, and only use public transport if the trip is "essential". So not a lot of hope from TfL for getting people to central London's various activities.

I thought TfL were desperately short of money, but doubtless some there take delight in using what little they have left to continue their anti-government attitude. This is not a political point, for I would feel the same if the parties on both sides were reversed, but really, let us have one straightforward view of things.

 

[DB]

I think people not using masks should be required to use shields to give protection, partly because of the protection issues but also because these are far more inconvenient than masks and so most avoiders would use masks.

The only people who should have issues with that would be those with learning difficulties.

You mean visors? You do realise that they are even more useless than masks because there is a gap around them? The evidence that they 'give protection' is largely non-existent.

And yes, they are more inconvenient than masks, to the extent that people who are exempt would be put off going out even more than currently. But in the increasingly bigoted world we now seem to inhabit, no doubt that would be fine with the shouty maskivist element.

 

[Domh245]

When talking with my parents about this, lack of confidence isn't their issue at all. The reason that they haven't as yet gone back to commuting by public transport was a) the prospect of an ~hour journey each way masked up and b) they're currently driving a PHEV with just about enough range to get them to/from their offices on one charge and is exempt from the congestion charge (and can conveniently park for free at Mum's office) - their commute costs around £1.25 each per day now, compared to whatever a zone 1-3 travelcard each would work out at (somewhere around £6.50 each?)

The former is easily solvable (with the political will), the latter is the real issue I suspect, both for people who've gone to the car and the Work-from-Homers. At least for those currently driving, traffic may eventually start pushing them back towards public transport as it gets worse and worse (parent's journey has gone from under an hour in July to an hour and a half today, and I'm frequently regaled with stories of idiot drivers, roadworks, etc) but for those who are now WFH, how on earth do you tempt them back?

 

[Mojo]

but for those who are now WFH, how on earth do you tempt them back?

I would have thought by and large that this would be a matter for employers who issue a directive to their employees rather than anything decided upon by the staff themselves.

I’ve been relying a fair bit recently on people working from home to complete various pieces of work. The amount of progress achieved since late March leads me to believe that the key component missing from those working from home is the actual “working.”

 

[bramling]

You mean visors? You do realise that they are even more useless than masks because there is a gap around them? The evidence that they 'give protection' is largely non-existent.

And yes, they are more inconvenient than masks, to the extent that people who are exempt would be put off going out even more than currently. But in the increasingly bigoted world we now seem to inhabit, no doubt that would be fine with the shouty maskivist element.

I am increasingly coming to the view that those unhappy about lack of masks should simply be expected to confine themselves to their own homes, and not at the expense of the taxpayer either.

Masks are working so well...

 

[DB]

I would have thought by and large that this would be a matter for employers who issue a directive to their employees rather than anything decided upon by the staff themselves.

I’ve been relying a fair bit recently on people working from home to complete various pieces of work. The amount of progress achieved since late March leads me to believe that the key component missing from those working from home is the actual “working.”

I suspect there will be a permanent increase in home working, but equally I also expect that it'll be less than many are assuming! Two or three days a week at home would be my guess, and the rest in the office. Depending on the job, of course - some can't be done from home very effecively.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

However, the £15-a-day seven-days-a-week charge is hurting our small independent businesses and large employers alike at a time when many of them are fighting to recover from the lockdown and struggling to survive. It has simply become a tax on economic recovery and is likely to cost thousands of job losses.'

Is it?

How is it hurting them? It cost £15 before, it costs £15 now. If it had been increased to fund TfL's budget deficit then, yes, it would be a tax on economic recovery.

The Chipping Norton set driving to Central London for a bar of soap from the specialist independent retailer?

Hey lets destroy the environment but save a couple of shops, it's worth it!

Thinking about it, perhaps the charge needs to be increased, and a workplace levy introduced to fund furlough and business support handouts. Higher levy = even fewer cars = cleaner air for inner London residents, who can walk that little bit more safely to their corner shop.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2020 ==

I would have thought by and large that this would be a matter for employers who issue a directive to their employees rather than anything decided upon by the staff themselves.

I’ve been relying a fair bit recently on people working from home to complete various pieces of work. The amount of progress achieved since late March leads me to believe that the key component missing from those working from home is the actual “working.”

This seems to be a wider problem than poeple are willing to admit. Some work may be being done by the WFH's, but it is clear that some elements are not. Many websites indicate that companies are operating a limited service examples include: no postal deliveries, no email contact, limited call capacity. Customer service seems to be out of the window.

 

[Mojo]

How is it hurting them? It cost £15 before, it costs £15 now. If it had been increased to fund TfL's budget deficit then, yes, it would be a tax on economic recovery.

The Congestion charge has been increased.

Prior to the temporary suspension of the Congestion charge in March, it cost £11.50 per vehicle day. It also only applied from 7am - 6pm Monday to Friday. It now applies seven days a week from 7am - 10pm and costs £15.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Congestion charge has been increased.

Prior to the temporary suspension of the Congestion charge in March, it cost £11.50 per vehicle day. It also only applied from 7am - 6pm Monday to Friday. It now applies seven days a week from 7am - 10pm and costs £15.

Fair enough, it's not my strong point as a non-driver and a devout avoider of London at the best of times!

Was the increase / extended hours planned pre-COVID or as a result of it?

So the evening increase may affect people driving in to the central area for a show / meal, but the first are still generally closed and the second is better done locally (from an environmental point of view).

I guess the gist of the argument is that the charge will deter those who just must come into central London, but are too scared to use public transport to do it. I'm not convinced but if I ran a business reliant on longer distance customers I might well have a different view. If this is long term, those businesses will have to adjust - as has been suggested in other threads - cafes in suburban shopping parades to service the home worker brigade looking for a bit of a change and some company for an hour at dinnertime. The Rolex shops and Porsche showrooms in the city I really am not bothered about.