How much longer will social distancing go on for in the UK?

[Bantamzen]

The Mail will disagree with your assessment as it will enable them to keep telling us that cases are rising and will no doubt carry on scaring the coronaphobes by the nonsense counting each positive weekly test on the same people as distinct case to add to the total as I understand they are doing now thus producing Bogus statistics
I will never go for a test if I am not ill any more than I go to A and E if I am not ill

The Mail today are also calling for air travel to return to near normal with testing at the airports. So yeah, about that....!!

 

[MikeWM]

It might all sound far fetched, but then so did a months long lock-down just 12 months ago. As a fan of Sci-fi, all this is starting to seem more and more like the seeds of the kind of dystopian society many films of this genre portrayed. Someone earlier mentioned Logans Run (still on of my favourite films), well this portrayed a society that euthanized anyone over 30, presumably for the "greater good". OK we are nowhere near that, but starting to insist that people prove they are "clean" just to function is one small step in that direction.

At least in Logan's Run you get to run away with Jenny Agutter I doubt any real dystopia would offer such mitigations... (!)

 

[carlberry]

The Mail today are also calling for air travel to return to near normal with testing at the airports. So yeah, about that....!!

The Mail will then be first in the queue to complain about 'Foreigners bringing the virus back' the first time an outbreak is connected to somebody getting off a plane and then speeding it despite a negative test at the airport!

 

[BJames]

Did anyone see this today:

Boris Johnson Accused of Hypocrisy Over Speech to Packed Tory Meeting

Boris Johnson was accused of hypocrisy as his office warned Britons against breaking pandemic social-distancing rules, just minutes after the prime minister addressed a meeting of Conservative lawmakers he described as packed in “cheek by jowl.”

www.bloomberg.com

Boris Johnson was accused of hypocrisy as his office warned Britons against breaking pandemic social-distancing rules, just minutes after the prime minister addressed a meeting of Conservative lawmakers he described as packed in “cheek by jowl.”


At least 50 Tory members of Parliament crammed into the parliamentary meeting room on Wednesday evening for the meeting, despite a sign on the door warning only 29 should be allowed in to limit the spread of coronavirus. And Johnson even commented on how he wanted people to be packed together in the same way by Christmas, according to two people at the meeting.


While some observed social-distancing rules that individuals should be more than a meter apart by taking seats that were spaced out, later arrivals “crammed” together at the back of the room to hear Johnson, according to three people present, who asked not to be identified because the meeting was private.

A spokesman for Johnson said his office would not be making any statement about the meeting with the influential 1922 committee of rank-and-file Tory lawmakers.

The gathering appeared to undermine the strict rules the U.K. government has imposed on businesses and families to help reduce transmission of the virus, and could further damage public trust in the prime minister after weeks of criticism and policy reversals. Just 40 minutes after it finished, the prime minister’s office sent a tweet warning people not to attend gatherings of more than 30 people.

Another "one rule for us, one for you" but also see the bit in bold: perhaps he really is still holding out on the idea of scrapping social distancing by late autumn...

 

[Bantamzen]

The Mail will then be first in the queue to complain about 'Foreigners bringing the virus back' the first time an outbreak is connected to somebody getting off a plane and then speeding it despite a negative test at the airport!

Oh I don't doubt it for a minute, especially once we pass the midnight hour of New Year's Eve. But it does demonstrate beautifully how the media are manipulating the situation.

Did anyone see this today:

Boris Johnson Accused of Hypocrisy Over Speech to Packed Tory Meeting

Boris Johnson was accused of hypocrisy as his office warned Britons against breaking pandemic social-distancing rules, just minutes after the prime minister addressed a meeting of Conservative lawmakers he described as packed in “cheek by jowl.”

www.bloomberg.com

Another "one rule for us, one for you" but also see the bit in bold: perhaps he really is still holding out on the idea of scrapping social distancing by late autumn...

Is anyone left still surprised?

 

[317 forever]

I read that Westminster are planning to pay those who have to quarantine for 10 days £130 and for 14 day quarantines £182. In both cases that is £13 a day.

Andy Burnham, the Manchester Mayor, says that this not enough for people to live on. I tend to agree. That's far less than even someone on minimum wage would earn.

Quite right too. It is an act of blatant theft for the government to tell people to self-isolate, especially if they have moved the goalposts on air bridges or agreed to someone's ficticious claim of having been near us, then partially "fine" us through reduced income for the privelege.

I notice that there’s a small but growing number of people who are getting sick of restrictions. The comments sections of news articles has actually shifted entirely to I would say a majority anti-restriction. It’s reassuring to see, people are starting to grow sick of this and compliance is absolutely starting to fall, I think this may be the tipping point we need.

A change I have noticed is that, whereas in the Spring people usually took care not to pass too close to other people on pavements, now they assume we are all safe for that very short time near eachother.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

A change I have noticed is that, whereas in the Spring people usually took care not to pass too close to other people on pavements, now they assume we are all safe for that very short time near eachother.

Which of course, we are. Although in some minds, it’s safe because they are wearing a face covering - even though that’s like a diver believing a shark cage will keep them safe from piranha ...

 

[C J Snarzell]

The death rate now speaks for itself. He are now having just single figure daily fatalities of covid. Every day many people pass away in the UK from old age or terminal illnesses. I would love to see a break down of a daily covid deaths listed against deaths of other causes such as cancer or heart disease.

The government seem to be focused now on cases and not deaths but to maintain social distancing indefinitely is complete nonscene. Chris Whitty and his medical team have emphasised time and time again that this virus is not going away anytime soon. Therefore new virus cases are likely to appear for sometime, well into 2021. Is it proportionate to enforce measures and restrictions well into the future?

I've said before, that some measures are simply not logical during the Winter - such as queuing up outside banks & building societies in sub zero temperatures in January when older people are at risk of flu.

I do genuinely think Boris Johnson should revert to his original plan of setting a bench mark for November and then announcing the end of social distancing and face masks but ensuring sterile environments such as care homes and medical buildings remain ring fenced.

CJ

 

[Bantamzen]

One interesting thing I've noticed in the last few days are sponsored government ads encouraging hand washing as a way to stop the spread, just as they did right back at the start. A sign perhaps that they are getting ready to back off from the restrictions, although I suspect this will be done on the quiet with them hoping that the public make that decision for them.

 

[Mag_seven]

One interesting thing I've noticed in the last few days are sponsored government ads encouraging hand washing as a way to stop the spread, just as they did right back at the start. A sign perhaps that they are getting ready to back off from the restrictions, although I suspect this will be done on the quiet with them hoping that the public make that decision for them.

Yes I would like to see a return to the original advice of regular handwashing plus covering your mouth when coughing and sneezing into a hanky - all sensible precautions rather than the OTT stuff we have at the moment. We should treat this virus like any other.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes I would like to see a return to the original advice of regular handwashing plus covering your mouth when coughing and sneezing into a hanky - all sensible precautions rather than the OTT stuff we have at the moment. We should treat this virus like any other.

Absolutely, we have reached the stage where we have to start taking stock of reality. The virus for all it's Hollywood-esk hype, is for the vast majority of people little more dangerous than viruses that can cause flu. So all this "Covid-Secure" nonsense can be sidelined. For those people most at risk we need to concentrate our efforts in keeping them as safe as possible, through regular checks, brining together the best treatments, and making sure specialist help is at hand to help them led as normal a life as is possible.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

One interesting thing I've noticed in the last few days are sponsored government ads encouraging hand washing as a way to stop the spread, just as they did right back at the start. A sign perhaps that they are getting ready to back off from the restrictions, although I suspect this will be done on the quiet with them hoping that the public make that decision for them.

Bus shelters in Brighton are still displaying the original ‘Stay Home. Protect the NHS. Save lives’ messaging, many months after the advice was changed!

 

[bramling]

Absolutely, we have reached the stage where we have to start taking stock of reality. The virus for all it's Hollywood-esk hype, is for the vast majority of people little more dangerous than viruses that can cause flu. So all this "Covid-Secure" nonsense can be sidelined. For those people most at risk we need to concentrate our efforts in keeping them as safe as possible, through regular checks, brining together the best treatments, and making sure specialist help is at hand to help them led as normal a life as is possible.

Unfortunately a massive amount of expectation-management is going to be required to get people to buy-in to that, and we have a government (and media) doing precisely the opposite.

The deeper we slide in to all this the more difficult it’s going to be to climb out.

There’s a lot of people in the mindset of “lockdown until vaccine”.

 

[Bantamzen]

Bus shelters in Brighton are still displaying the original ‘Stay Home. Protect the NHS. Save lives’ messaging, many months after the advice was changed!

Well if nothing else, its easy money for the advertising companies....

Unfortunately a massive amount of expectation-management is going to be required to get people to buy-in to that, and we have a government (and media) doing precisely the opposite.

The deeper we slide in to all this the more difficult it’s going to be to climb out.

There’s a lot of people in the mindset of “lockdown until vaccine”.

At the risk of being blunt, these people are literally going to have to get a grip of themselves. The furlough scheme is coming to an end, as are others to try and help businesses get through this. Now we are going to have to figure out how to pay for all of this, and that won't happen by hiding behind the sofa. We need to start coming up with practical & effective solutions for moving forward, and these will not involve paper masks, black & yellow hazard tape, or one way systems. 2021 is going to be challenging enough without people clinging onto the vain hope of a magic pill. Vaccines, and especially ones for coronaviruses are very difficult to develop, test and distribute. And even though it appears that there is good progress with some, the reality will be that it will be well into next year before even large scale vaccination will begin, assuming of course that it is actually successful.

In terms of the media, at least some quarters are starting to push back a bit. But they will need to do a lot more yet, including some self-critique as they have led the charge in scaring the bits out of the public.

 

[yorkie]

Bus shelters in Brighton are still displaying the original ‘Stay Home. Protect the NHS. Save lives’ messaging, many months after the advice was changed!

It may be worth making complaints about that; also see if bus companies can assist in getting these removed as it can't be good for them either.

I remove any that I see on the railway if I can do so; I try to report others if I get round to it. Most TOCs remove them promptly when alerted to them (Twitter is useful for this)

 

[bramling]

Well if nothing else, its easy money for the advertising companies....



At the risk of being blunt, these people are literally going to have to get a grip of themselves. The furlough scheme is coming to an end, as are others to try and help businesses get through this. Now we are going to have to figure out how to pay for all of this, and that won't happen by hiding behind the sofa. We need to start coming up with practical & effective solutions for moving forward, and these will not involve paper masks, black & yellow hazard tape, or one way systems. 2021 is going to be challenging enough without people clinging onto the vain hope of a magic pill. Vaccines, and especially ones for coronaviruses are very difficult to develop, test and distribute. And even though it appears that there is good progress with some, the reality will be that it will be well into next year before even large scale vaccination will begin, assuming of course that it is actually successful.

In terms of the media, at least some quarters are starting to push back a bit. But they will need to do a lot more yet, including some self-critique as they have led the charge in scaring the bits out of the public.

It’s interesting that the last week or so has certainly seen elements of the media starting to show chinks of light, but that’s all it is - there’s plenty of “we’re all going to die” still floating around in plain sight, and unfortunately for the Facebook furlough types social media still feeds a tailored diet of it.

I’ve felt for a while that something more hard-hitting is the only way some people are going to get the reality check. Furlough ending, and people being told that they can choose not to go back to their workplaces but they won’t be paid. This won’t happen though.

It doesn’t help that we still have a lot of people who are clearly rather enjoying elements of all this, and they’re prepared to tolerate the restrictions if it allows them to keep the good bits (no alarm clock in the morning, etc etc). I actually think some people relish not having to think for themselves too, which has been the dehumanising experience at two of the three attractions we visited this week (“curated experience” I believe is the term).

 

[Bantamzen]

It’s interesting that the last week or so has certainly seen elements of the media starting to show chinks of light, but that’s all it is - there’s plenty of “we’re all going to die” still floating around in plain sight, and unfortunately for the Facebook furlough types social media still feeds a tailored diet of it.

I’ve felt for a while that something more hard-hitting is the only way some people are going to get the reality check. Furlough ending, and people being told that they can choose not to go back to their workplaces but they won’t be paid. This won’t happen though.

It doesn’t help that we still have a lot of people who are clearly rather enjoying elements of all this, and they’re prepared to tolerate the restrictions if it allows them to keep the good bits (no alarm clock in the morning, etc etc).

As it happens I have friends that for months were all for restrictions, lockdowns, masks, "Don't kill Granny" etc. However some of them have sadly found out the true price of lockdown, with furlough coming to an end and their companies informing them that their services were are no longer required. I'm afraid this is the true cost, not one I feel good about but certainly one some of us were warning people like these about for months. As the job cuts deepen, so more people will have to accept that it is get back to normal, or risk your livelihoods.

 

[bramling]

As it happens I have friends that for months were all for restrictions, lockdowns, masks, "Don't kill Granny" etc. However some of them have sadly found out the true price of lockdown, with furlough coming to an end and their companies informing them that their services were are no longer required. I'm afraid this is the true cost, not one I feel good about but certainly one some of us were warning people like these about for months. As the job cuts deepen, so more people will have to accept that it is get back to normal, or risk your livelihoods.

I suspect the government is bothered that there’s the real risk that the wider population has a “wake up” moment and realised that they’ve lost a year of their lives and suffered untold damage to economic and social wellbeing off the back of figures which are increasingly being regarded as dubious.

Scenes like the empty Nightingale hospitals are themselves quite telling.

That wake up moment could be extremely toxic, so no wonder governments are wary.

The best we can perhaps hope for is a people-led gradual breakdown, but that’s difficult to achieve unless people seize the initiative and openly ignore things like masks. That in itself requires a critical mass, such that places like Bridgnorth Cliff Railway find they cannot survive financially unless they mend their ways.

Unfortunately whilst we’re at the stage where glimmers of light are starting to shine through, we’re only at the start of a long journey, and one which is going to be rough given the amount of unpleasantness floating around.

 

[Bantamzen]

I suspect the government is bothered that there’s the real risk that the wider population has a “wake up” moment and realised that they’ve lost a year of their lives and suffered untold damage to economic and social wellbeing off the back of figures which are increasingly being regarded as dubious.

Scenes like the empty Nightingale hospitals are themselves quite telling.

That wake up moment could be extremely toxic, so no wonder governments are wary.

The best we can perhaps hope for is a people-led gradual breakdown, but that’s difficult to achieve unless people seize the initiative and openly ignore things like masks. That in itself requires a critical mass, such that places like Bridgnorth Cliff Railway find they cannot survive financially unless they mend their ways.

I think the people-led breakdown is exactly what the government are pinning their hopes on (and I suspect the same is true of many countries). That way any future spike can be blamed on the proles, and if there isn't a significant second wave then they can pat themselves on the back for "trusting the people". However as you note they will also be fearful of a sudden awakening of the masses when furlough is swiped from under their feet, leaving them with the option of getting back to it (if they are lucky), or start filling out their Universal Credit applications online.

I can't say too much, but I have been part of a team looking at the numbers, and they don't look great for an awful lot of people. Christmas 2020 is going to be horrible for these people I fear.

 

[bramling]

I think the people-led breakdown is exactly what the government are pinning their hopes on (and I suspect the same is true of many countries). That way any future spike can be blamed on the proles, and if there isn't a significant second wave then they can pat themselves on the back for "trusting the people". However as you note they will also be fearful of a sudden awakening of the masses when furlough is swiped from under their feet, leaving them with the option of getting back to it (if they are lucky), or start filling out their Universal Credit applications online.

I can't say too much, but I have been part of a team looking at the numbers, and they don't look great for an awful lot of people. Christmas 2020 is going to be horrible for these people I fear.

For a people-led breakdown to occur there needs to be a process of attrition against groups like the mask obsessives and Karen from Facebook. Unfortunately I don’t think we’re quite there.

More and more people returning to work may well help as at least it exposes them to a range of opinions. Being stuck at home is toxic as all they see is the hysterical news and probably conversing with people in the same position as themselves. That’s certainly the case here - most of my road has been working from home or furloughed, plus a few retirees - when I see them the general reaction is one of utter shock and surprise when I say “I’m just back from work”. I had another say “how you enjoying your holiday year?”, to which my response wasn’t particularly flattering!

To be honest there’s the Christmas attitude in spades “*I* don’t want to work, but I expect access to the usual range of things”. In other words others can go to work but they don’t feel they should have to themselves. Not quite sure what they think would happen if everyone took the same line?!

 

[david1212]

While a few weeks ago Boris stated that he was working towards most restrictions being ended before Christmas with the number of positive cases creeping up before the big jump today plus schools just opened again then colleges and universities following then the unknowns over winter in addition to 'flu norovirus etc. I am not expecting any further major overall relaxations until next March or April. As hinted any major changes could be a trade off between reintroducing one restriction to relax another.

Even if the results today are a spike rather than a trend IMO just from my observations too many people are ignoring the current ( anti ) social distancing guidelines. Weather suitable for meeting outdoors is coming to an end for six months or so too while many live in housing where there is not space for two families / bubbles to meet socially and maintain 2m separation.

Another factor that will influence any decisions early next year is if a viable vaccine or combination of vaccines is at least close to being approved and the timescale for inoculation. Detailed discussion of this of course for other threads.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The "big jump" today isn't actually a "big jump" if you look at the actual dates of the tests (the first graph at the below link). They appear to have lost a load of results and found them today - they are actually from the last week or so. This would tally with a friend's postal test (negative, fortunately) taking nearly a week for a result rather than the quoted 48 hours.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK

GOV.UK Coronavirus dashboard

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

 

[Class 33]

While a few weeks ago Boris stated that he was working towards most restrictions being ended before Christmas with the number of positive cases creeping up before the big jump today plus schools just opened again then colleges and universities following then the unknowns over winter in addition to 'flu norovirus etc. I am not expecting any further major overall relaxations until next March or April. As hinted any major changes could be a trade off between reintroducing one restriction to relax another.

Even if the results today are a spike rather than a trend IMO just from my observations too many people are ignoring the current ( anti ) social distance guidelines. Weather suitable for meeting outdoors is coming to an end for six months or so too while many live in housing where there is not space for two families / bubbles to meet socially and maintain 2m separation.

Another factor that will influence any decisions early next year is if a viable vaccine or combination of vaccines is at least close to being approved and the timescale for inoculation. Detailed discussion of this of course for other threads.

If this unnecessary nonsense continues until March or April, then godknows what this country is going to be like by then. It's going to be in a very bad way indeed. Many hundreds of businesses closing down because it's not financially viable to run their businesses with these restrictive "COVID-Secure" and "Social distancing guidelines". Thousands upon thousands of job cuts and unemployed. In fact if social distancing is not scrapped by 1st November, after the furlough scheme ends on 31st October, then the numbers of unemployed are going to be astronomically high, 8 MILLION, 9 MILLION??? And as much I don't want to see unemployment figures anywhere near as high as that, I'm hoping that if we do then this is going to force the government to sort this mess out by scrapping social distancing, getting the country back to normal again, and getting people back to work.

Whilst today's shock rise in the numbers of new cases is a bit of a worry, I still believe that we aren't going to see a significant rise in the numbers of deaths, and that numbers will still remain VERY LOW, an average of less then 10 per day. And whilst the daily deaths are this low now, it's now high time to scrap this social distancing AND face mask laws nonsense. But the government are just taking FAR TOO MUCH notice of the numbers of new cases, rather than also taking into the very low daily deaths. It's just absolutely ridiculous beyond belief. And whilst Boris and the cabinet have this mindset, I can't see them scrapping social distancing anytime soon. They're going to drag this out until at least early next year I think, even despite the shock numbers of unemployed that will be(if indeed social distancing is still dragging on then) released in November!!!!!

The problem is the conflicting things Boris himself has said, along with Matt Hancock, as to when social distancing could be scrapped. Boris said in TWO press conferences in July that he may be able to scrap the remaining restrictions(including social distancing) from November at the earliest, perhaps in time for Christmas. But then about 2 weeks later from these press conferences he then says "We may be able relax restrictions around the middle of next year"!!!! And also Matt Hancock within the past week or so saying "We need to keep social distancing for the forseeable future until a vaccine is found." and also "We need to keep social distancing until at least March 2021.". So it's all very conflicting and frustrating as to what the plan is from the government on this issue......

 

[Bantamzen]

The "big jump" today isn't actually a "big jump" if you look at the actual dates of the tests (the first graph at the below link). They appear to have lost a load of results and found them today - they are actually from the last week or so. This would tally with a friend's postal test (negative, fortunately) taking nearly a week for a result rather than the quoted 48 hours.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK

GOV.UK Coronavirus dashboard

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Just looking at those figures it shows that England has 532.4 cases per 100,000 (or 0.5% of the population), yet certain areas get locked down for having 40+ cases per 100,000 (0.04%). Am I missing something here?

 

[Mag_seven]

Just looking at those figures it shows that England has 532.4 cases per 100,000 (or 0.5% of the population), yet certain areas get locked down for having 40+ cases per 100,000 (0.04%). Am I missing something here?

I'm totally lost as to where we are now in terms of government COVID strategy. We need to get the Downing St Press conferences back up and running again with Johnson, Whitty and Vallance giving a weekly update as to where we are and what their current thinking is.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm totally lost as to where we are now in terms of government COVID strategy. We need to get the Downing St Press conferences back up and running again with Johnson, Whitty and Valance giving a weekly update as to where we are and what their current thinking is.

Whilst your thinking is logical, you are not taking into account that the government do not think logically, they simply react to what Karen of Facebook thinks in the hope of retaining / gaining her support...

 

[Reliablebeam]

The problem is the conflicting things Boris himself has said, along with Matt Hancock, as to when social distancing could be scrapped. Boris said in TWO press conferences in July that he may be able to scrap the remaining restrictions(including social distancing) from November at the earliest, perhaps in time for Christmas. But then about 2 weeks later from these press conferences he then says "We may be able relax restrictions around the middle of next year"!!!! And also Matt Hancock within the past week or so saying "We need to keep social distancing for the forseeable future until a vaccine is found." and also "We need to keep social distancing until at least March 2021.". So it's all very conflicting and frustrating as to what the plan is from the government on this issue......

I'm increasingly getting the impression that the penny has dropped in cabinet about the economic impact and old Matty Boy and his acolytes might be getting more isolated. It may explain his nosiness lately.

 

[bramling]

I'm increasingly getting the impression that the penny has dropped in cabinet about the economic impact and old Matty Boy and his acolytes might be getting more isolated. It may explain his nosiness lately.

I have a suspicion that there is a fair amount of stick coming in from backbenchers. Whether this is from seeing the unfolding shambles with their own eyes or as a result of getting pilloried by constituents I’m not sure.

Unfortunately I don’t think Hancock is the brightest bulb in the box. To be fair he does seem to have attempted to put effort into the whole thing, but he comes across as hopelessly out of his depth.

 

[trebor79]

I'm totally lost as to where we are now in terms of government COVID strategy.

There isn't one.

 

[david1212]

If this unnecessary nonsense continues until March or April, then godknows what this country is going to be like by then. It's going to be in a very bad way indeed. Many hundreds of businesses closing down because it's not financially viable to run their businesses with these restrictive "COVID-Secure" and "Social distancing guidelines". Thousands upon thousands of job cuts and unemployed. In fact if social distancing is not scrapped by 1st November, after the furlough scheme ends on 31st October, then the numbers of unemployed are going to be astronomically high, 8 MILLION, 9 MILLION??? And as much I don't want to see unemployment figures anywhere near as high as that, I'm hoping that if we do then this is going to force the government to sort this mess out by scrapping social distancing, getting the country back to normal again, and getting people back to work.

Whilst today's shock rise in the numbers of new cases is a bit of a worry, I still believe that we aren't going to see a significant rise in the numbers of deaths, and that numbers will still remain VERY LOW, an average of less then 10 per day. And whilst the daily deaths are this low now, it's now high time to scrap this social distancing AND face mask laws nonsense. But the government are just taking FAR TOO MUCH notice of the numbers of new cases, rather than also taking into the very low daily deaths. It's just absolutely ridiculous beyond belief. And whilst Boris and the cabinet have this mindset, I can't see them scrapping social distancing anytime soon. They're going to drag this out until at least early next year I think, even despite the shock numbers of unemployed that will be(if indeed social distancing is still dragging on then) released in November!!!!!

The problem is the conflicting things Boris himself has said, along with Matt Hancock, as to when social distancing could be scrapped. Boris said in TWO press conferences in July that he may be able to scrap the remaining restrictions(including social distancing) from November at the earliest, perhaps in time for Christmas. But then about 2 weeks later from these press conferences he then says "We may be able relax restrictions around the middle of next year"!!!! And also Matt Hancock within the past week or so saying "We need to keep social distancing for the forseeable future until a vaccine is found." and also "We need to keep social distancing until at least March 2021.". So it's all very conflicting and frustrating as to what the plan is from the government on this issue......

With the experience gained from the last six months likewise I would not expect the death rate to return to the levels of late March, April and May. However if the current restrictive "COVID-Secure" and "Social distancing guidelines" were dropped how many might contract Covid-19 so be ill then convalescing even if at home for a month or more plus at any point in time how many more might be in quarantine having been in close contact with them? Both of these would have a major effect on business and the economy too.

The phrase ' stuck between a rock and a hard place ' comes to mind.