Could more HSTs be converted and adapted to remain in service?

[DB]

I saw numerous examples.

Why not give us some examples, then?

There was certainly speculation about what would be scrapped, but I didn't see anything suggesting that anyone was more concerned about the train than the people in it.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Pretty much every route in the country has a more modern fleet, either in service or on order, than the HSTs. The routes that they remain on - XC, GW and ScotRail - are ones which aren't considered to justify a new fleet, but still needed an upgrade, and for that purpose they're fine - but I don't think there's much room for them elsewhere.

ScotRail replaced a partially new fleet (Class 170 units) with their refurbished HST stock, CrossCountry supplemented a new fleet (Class 170, 220 and 221 units) when they brought (back) their HST sets into service and there's no reason to believe GW couldn't have procured new stock if they had wanted to, instead of running refurbished HST stock. New stock is often working out to be cheaper to lease than existing stock thanks to low interest rates on commercial debt.

It's also worth remembering that ScotRail went for HST stock with a relatively short service life as there was a desire at the time of the franchise being re-let (to Abellio) of progressing electrification to Aberdeen and Inverness by the time the refurbished HST sets would be coming up for heavy overhaul and decisions would need to be taken on replacement or more maintenance.

 

[37424]

ScotRail replaced a partially new fleet (Class 170 units) with their refurbished HST stock, CrossCountry supplemented a new fleet (Class 170, 220 and 221 units) when they brought (back) their HST sets into service and there's no reason to believe GW couldn't have procured new stock if they had wanted to, instead of running refurbished HST stock. New stock is often working out to be cheaper to lease than existing stock thanks to low interest rates on commercial debt.

It's also worth remembering that ScotRail went for HST stock with a relatively short service life as there was a desire at the time of the franchise being re-let (to Abellio) of progressing electrification to Aberdeen and Inverness by the time the refurbished HST sets would be coming up for heavy overhaul and decisions would need to be taken on replacement or more maintenance.

I'm not so sure about that GWR were being hampered by very late running and reduced scope electrification for DMU cascades, against full order books of the limited number of suppliers that want to make DMU's, Short HST's were no doubt seen as fairly quick fix solution, they may be cheap to lease and the fact that First group own some power cars might well have some bearing on it but I expect they are expensive to run against comparable DMU's, and now they are getting a few more as a quick fix solution to get rid of the Railbuses.

Had there been less procrastination over the replacement of the HST's and they had been replaced in more timely manner without the need for new engines and extensive refurbishment I expect there wouldn't have been much demand for their reuse, the fact they did receive that extensive rebuild did make them more of a candidate for reuse although the door issue was clearly a significant hurdle and no doubt even more so with the large delays to that project.

Had the expensive door mods not being required more extensive reuse might have been likely but I would think we are getting to limit of reuse now, maybe one or two more will go to charter companies now we have seen one company take the plunge although covid my have dampened that to some degree.

 

[DB]

maybe one or two more will go to charter companies now we have seen one company take the plunge although covid my have dampened that to some degree.

There aren't many charter companies who have their own traction, which will limit the appeal as they would also need the power cars. LSL have bought some but other than them the only candidate I can think of is WCRC, who would probably have already bought some if they wanted them.

Loco hauled Mk3s would be easier as they can be hauled by nearly any ETS-fitted loco, but even there many went for scrap, despite a recent refurbishment, so clearly limited interest in them.

 

[37424]

There aren't many charter companies who have their own traction, which will limit the appeal as they would also need the power cars. LSL have bought some but other than them the only candidate I can think of is WCRC, who would probably have already bought some if they wanted them.

Loco hauled Mk3s would be easier as they can be hauled by nearly any ETS-fitted loco, but even there many went for scrap, despite a recent refurbishment, so clearly limited interest in them.

We shall see I'm not expecting an avalanche of HST charter trains but that doesn't mean to say there wont be any more, MK3 Loco Hauled may be easier in some ways increasingly you end up having to employ a loco at each end due to lack of shunt release etc, on the other hand you have a ready made train that that already has a loco at each end and can potentially keep up with service trains on the fast routes and not spend half its time being looped out of the way, that might be fine for the enthusiast market but less so for the normal punter.

 

[DB]

We shall see I'm expecting an avalanche of HST charter trains but that doesn't mean to say there wont be any more, MK3 Loco Hauled may be easier in some ways, but on the other hand you have a ready made train that can potentially keep up with service trains on the fast routes and not spend half its time being looped out of the way, that might be fine for the enthusiast market but less so for the normal punter.

Large numbers of Mk3s have already been scrapped, so opportunities for reuse are reducing as time goes by!