Temporary Closure for Rose Hill Marple

[LRV3004]

And what’s your betting that the soaring passenger numbers will be because of enthusiasts sampling the rare opportunity for loco haulage along the Rose Hill Line? (Apologies if this has already been mentioned further up the thread - I’m just chucking my two pence in blind)

 

[yorksrob]

And what’s your betting that the soaring passenger numbers will be because of enthusiasts sampling the rare opportunity for loco haulage along the Rose Hill Line? (Apologies if this has already been mentioned further up the thread - I’m just chucking my two pence in blind)

Good. If it helps with the numbers.

Full trains are good publicity.

 

[6Gman]

It does seem more likely that the idea is to run a service to embarrass the DFT into forcing Northern into either going through the actual closer procedure or provide an appropriate rail replacement. The idea that Northern can just withdraw a service because it is operationally inconvenient for them just doesn't sit right with me at all.

It would be very interesting to see how much West Coast Railways are charging for this but I suppose it will be commercially sensitive and never released. At least having a couple of weeks lets them gain appropriate route knowledge easier....

If it's being paid for by the local authority then presumably the cost cannot be hidden.

 

[py_megapixel]

Worth noting, there's still nothing properly planned. Most of what's being said is still speculative. Stockport Council have simply said that they would, in principle, back such an idea.

 

[Ianno87]

Good. If it helps with the numbers.

Full trains are good publicity.

Noisy diesels with inaccessible carriages aren't.

 

[yorksrob]

Noisy diesels with inaccessible carriages aren't.

If they're full of passengers they do.

Reference the Windermere branch situation a couple of years ago.

 

[py_megapixel]

If they're full of passengers they do.

Reference the Windermere branch situation a couple of years ago.

There's an important distinction between enthusiasts there for the novelty of doing Rose Hill behind a 37 - who will vanish once the traction reverts to Sprinters - and passengers who actually rely on the service - who won't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's an important distinction between enthusiasts there for the novelty of doing Rose Hill behind a 37 - who will vanish once the traction reverts to Sprinters - and passengers who actually rely on the service - who won't.

As it's a publicity stunt, you can get photos of busy trains either way, which is what it's for. The aim isn't to provide a useful service (as if it was it'd be for more than a week), it's to give Northern a kick up the proverbial.

 

[yorksrob]

As it's a publicity stunt, you can get photos of busy trains either way, which is what it's for. The aim isn't to provide a useful service (as if it was it'd be for more than a week), it's to give Northern a kick up the proverbial.

Exactly.

 

[Ianno87]

As it's a publicity stunt, you can get photos of busy trains either way, which is what it's for. The aim isn't to provide a useful service (as if it was it'd be for more than a week), it's to give Northern a kick up the proverbial.

Not that it's going to magic any more drivers into existence....

If anything, might shine Nothern in a good light if 37s making a colossal racket are shoved on the service for a week, waking up the neighbours...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not that it's going to magic any more drivers into existence....

It might cause them to make a different decision, though, to thin another route to avoid completely removing one, or to put on a more extensive rail replacement bus service.

 

[Ianno87]

It might cause them to make a different decision, though, to thin another route to avoid completely removing one, or to put on a more extensive rail replacement bus service.

...and when passengers on the other route find they're losing trains...?

 

[Bletchleyite]

...and when passengers on the other route find they're losing trains...?

Better to take a frequency hit (with longer trains, perhaps) than lose the entire service.

 

[yorksrob]

...and when passengers on the other route find they're losing trains...?

Then they can kick up a stink.

Might pressure the DfT into doing something about the underlying staffing shortages that have led to problems ever since the strikes.

 

[Ianno87]

Better to take a frequency hit (with longer trains, perhaps) than lose the entire service.

Not for social distancing it isn't.

I'm going to hazard a guess that Rose Hill services have basically been running empty of late as the basis for Northern's decision. No passengers to piss off if they haven't yet come back post-Lockdown.

Plus Rose Hill, Woodley etc are reasonably well covered by alternatives (rail or bus).

 

[Class 170101]

I wonder whether it would have been possible to take Ashbury's call out of one of the Hadfield and replace with a Fairfield Call - the only station that seems completely unserved.

 

[D365]

If anything, might shine Nothern in a good light if 37s making a colossal racket are shoved on the service for a week, waking up the neighbours...

I did use to enjoy 37s on overnight Network Rail test trains... My partner of the time, not so much

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I wonder whether it would have been possible to take Ashbury's call out of one of the Hadfield and replace with a Fairfield Call - the only station that seems completely unserved.

Looking at it casually, I'd have thought Fairfield would be busier than Ashburys for a number of reasons: further away from Picc (so presumably the buses are comparatively slower), more housing on the doorstep (Ashburys is next to a main road with not much on it IIRC)... So I'd have thought that if one of them was to be unserved temporarily it would be Ashburys. Though I'm not overly familiar with the area, so my impression may be misguided.

 

[Ianno87]

Looking at it casually, I'd have thought Fairfield would be busier than Ashburys for a number of reasons: further away from Picc (so presumably the buses are comparatively slower), more housing on the doorstep (Ashburys is next to a main road with not much on it IIRC)... So I'd have thought that if one of them was to be unserved temporarily it would be Ashburys. Though I'm not overly familiar with the area, so my impression may be misguided.

Ashburys has always been busier. Unlike Fairfield, it seems to generate reasonable demand in both directions, not just trips to/from Piccadilly.

 

[Pete 1981]

Not for social distancing it isn't.

I'm going to hazard a guess that Rose Hill services have basically been running empty of late as the basis for Northern's decision. No passengers to piss off if they haven't yet come back post-Lockdown.

Plus Rose Hill, Woodley etc are reasonably well covered by alternatives (rail or bus).

You can't get a bus from Rose Hill into Manchester

 

[Ianno87]

You can't get a bus from Rose Hill into Manchester

You can get a bus from Rose Hill to Marple (of which there are several per hour), and then a train to Manchester.

Changing modes is allowed.

 

[Pete 1981]

Looking at it casually, I'd have thought Fairfield would be busier than Ashburys for a number of reasons: further away from Picc (so presumably the buses are comparatively slower), more housing on the doorstep (Ashburys is next to a main road with not much on it IIRC)... So I'd have thought that if one of them was to be unserved temporarily it would be Ashburys. Though I'm not overly familiar with the area, so my impression may be misguided.

Ashburys serves both routes to Romiley, I actually got off the train at Fairfield the other day and it is in the middle of quite a lot of housing but it's close to Guide Bridge.

 

[tamesidedepot]

You can get a bus from Rose Hill to Marple (of which there are several per hour), and then a train to Manchester.

Changing modes is allowed.

It isn't always that simple though for the journeys to stations other than Piccadilly.
Rose Hill to Guide Bridge for example would need a bus to Stockport, then train to Piccadilly and a train back out to Guide Bridge, or from Stockport the 330 bus to Ashton then either the 219 or 347 bus back to Guide Bridge. Alternatively, bus to Marple, train to Piccadilly then the train back to Guide Bridge. Similar multi-leg journeys would be needed for Flowery Field or Fairfield.

 

[Ianno87]

It isn't always that simple though for the journeys to stations other than Piccadilly.
Rose Hill to Guide Bridge for example would need a bus to Stockport, then train to Piccadilly and a train back out to Guide Bridge, or from Stockport the 330 bus to Ashton then either the 219 or 347 bus back to Guide Bridge. Alternatively, bus to Marple, train to Piccadilly then the train back to Guide Bridge. Similar multi-leg journeys would be needed for Flowery Field or Fairfield.

...and how many actual, current (not theoretical) passengers (at current levels of demand) do those specific journeys actually affect? More or less than fingers on my hand (excluding Thumbs)?

 

[NoMorePacers]

I used quite a few Rose Hill services since the travel advice was changed and they were certainly not empty - they were rather well used, and I've been on several other lines that were, on average, quieter (this includes several TPE services).

 

[Ianno87]

I used quite a few Rose Hill services since the travel advice was changed and they were certainly not empty - they were rather well used, and I've been on several other lines that were, on average, quieter (this includes several TPE services).

And what specific journeys were the passengers doing?

 

[peters]

...and how many actual, current (not theoretical) passengers (at current levels of demand) do those specific journeys actually affect? More or less than fingers on my hand (excluding Thumbs)?

Northern haven't undertaken any proper surveys about actual current demand, they've just drawn up timetables to suit their available levels of staffing, which in some cases have cause people to lose their jobs. Consequently, no-one knows the actual answer to your question and if you were a regular Northern passenger you'll have seen well utilised services withdrawn for no reason without any consultation and if you are a Northern passenger and you haven't seen that happen on your line then your line has received favourable treatment from Northern management for some reason.

 

[Ianno87]

Northern haven't undertaken any proper surveys about actual current demand, they've just drawn up timetables to suit their available levels of staffing, which in some cases have cause people to lose their jobs. Consequently, no-one knows the actual answer to your question and if you were a regular Northern passenger you'll have seen well utilised services withdrawn for no reason without any consultation and if you are a Northern passenger and you haven't seen that happen on your line then your line has received favourable treatment from Northern management for some reason.

Northern would have quite easy access to data from ticket sales.

 

[NoMorePacers]

And what specific journeys were the passengers doing?

If I recall correctly, a good chunk of the journeys were made from stations between Gorton and Hyde Central to Romiley on an early afternoon outbound service (more than those that got on at Piccadilly from memory).

 

[peters]

...and how many actual, current (not theoretical) passengers (at current levels of demand) do those specific journeys actually affect?
...
Northern would have quite easy access to data from ticket sales.

These two statements conflict with each other. You're presuming everyone who needs to travel can travel, despite the current reduced timetables and also that no-one currently not needing to travel will need to travel before December. Those are incorrect presumptions and as I suspected you have no idea what is currently going on with the commuter services on the lines out of Manchester or workplaces in Manchester and beyond.