Temporary Closure for Rose Hill Marple

[Rail Ranger]

What are the exact dates for the closure?

14th September to 14th December.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2020 ==

If I was a rate-payer in Stockport, I'd certainly be questioning whether "showing up Northern" was really a great use of taxpayer money, to run a train for a grand total of one week.

I prefer "using scarce public funding to provide an essential public service for a week". Maybe crowd funding could be used to pay for a longer period of operation.

 

[Spandau]

RE: Maybe crowd funding could be used to pay for a longer period of operation.

Maybe the penny could drop at Northern and THEY could hire in West Coast Railways?

 

[py_megapixel]

I assume it'll be 37+Mk2?

What week is it going to be? If it's convenient I might pop up there to see it.

 

[geoffk]

And West Coast crews will have to learn the route so I suppose a route learner the week before (i.e. next week) if there is a path for it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Will the West Coast Rose Hill service be free to passengers? I believe there was no mechanism to collect fares when they operated the Windermere branch.

If no ticket is required I imagine there could be some interesting conversations at the Piccadilly gateline!

Probably not too hard to use platform 1 and use Tensabarriers to separate it from the rest of the station, or issue free tickets.

 

[onlinespotting]

There appears to be a replacement bus service on real time trains (search 01/10 for example)

 

[Bletchleyite]

There appears to be a replacement bus service on real time trains (search 01/10 for example)

There is, but only Rose Hill-Marple-Romiley. The Hyde stations remain unserved which I find unacceptable.

 

[jonnyfan]

www.northernrailway.co.uk/rosehill2020

There is to be a Ring and Ride taxi service available to rail ticket holders for the un-served stations - details on the website

 

[scrapy]

I wondered if they might do something like 4 or 5 coaches top and tailed every 2 hours so they have 1 diagram with the space for a more similar amount to before

They could run a service every 90minutes (assuming enough crews for PNBs etc) the paths exist as the Rose Hill service was half hourly pre covid. 4 or 5 coaches + locos would have issues with platform lengths and would probably foul junctions.

I'm wondering if it would be better to run an hourly Guide Bridge to Rose Hill shuttle if only one train used and paths allow. Connections to Manchester could be made at Romiley or Guide Bridge. Of course Fairfield and Gorton would not be served but that's not Stockport councils problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Q - Can I have my season ticket refunded?
Unfortunately, we won’t be able to refund season tickets, however, you will be able to use your ticket to/from other stations at no extra cost.

What a load of tripe - Season Tickets are refundable as standard!

Are they really that incompetent?

(from https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/u...suspension-rose-hill-to-manchester-piccadilly)

 

[py_megapixel]

Are they really that incompetent?

Almost certainly so.

This is Northern we're talking about. I wouldn't trust them to reliably run a 5 minute shuttle bus with a single vehicle, let alone a complex network of train services covering a good chunk of the country.

 

[Ianno87]

14th September to 14th December.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2020 ==


I prefer "using scarce public funding to provide an essential public service for a week".

So why not RRBs, which would be far better value for money? Or better yet, just pay Stagecoach to accept rail tickets on local routes?

The situation with Rose Hill is hardly ideal, but Stockport may as well just pour the money down the nearest drain...

Maybe crowd funding could be used to pay for a longer period of operation.

Might cover an extra day or two....

 

[Rail Ranger]

So why not RRBs, which would be far better value for money? Or better yet, just pay Stagecoach to accept rail tickets on local routes?

The situation with Rose Hill is hardly ideal, but Stockport may as well just pour the money down the nearest drain...



Might cover an extra day or two....

Buses are not an acceptable substitute for a rail service and the road network does not run parallel to the route. There is no parallel bus route.

 

[Ianno87]

Buses are not an acceptable substitute for a rail service

Yes they are. Read the National Conditions of Carriage.

and the road network does not run parallel to the route. There is no parallel bus route.

Bus from Rose Hill to Marple then the train (or indeed even) Rose Hill to Stockport then train) is hardly a massive dog leg.


None of these, in my view, come even close to justifying spending thousands of pounds in subsidising a loco hauled service for the grand total of a week.

No doubt they'll take a photo of a train full of beige-coated, camera-wielding enthusiasts (there for the haulage) and then claim "look how many people Northern were trying to stop travelling!"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bus from Rose Hill to Marple then the train (or indeed even) Rose Hill to Stockport then train) is hardly a massive dog leg.

The problem is less Rose Hill and more the other stations via Hyde.

 

[Ianno87]

The problem is less Rose Hill and more the other stations via Hyde.

Hyde North: Walk to Flowery Field

Hyde Central: Next to all the bus routes from Hyde Bus Station

Woodley: 330 to Bredbury



Which are all going to be necessary anyway for the 11-odd weeks the West Coast service isn't running for...

 

[peters]

What a load of tripe - Season Tickets are refundable as standard!

Are they really that incompetent?

(from https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/u...suspension-rose-hill-to-manchester-piccadilly)

I would presume that means season tickets on that route won't benefit from any special refund conditions e.g. if you've had an annual season ticket for 11 months the refund value will be £0.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would presume that means season tickets on that route won't benefit from any special refund conditions e.g. if you've had an annual season ticket for 11 months the refund value will be £0.

It's misleading, though. "Season ticket refunds are subject to normal terms and conditions" is the correct way to say that.

 

[peters]

None of these, in my view, come even close to justifying spending thousands of pounds in subsidising a loco hauled service for the grand total of a week.

Agreed. If a special train was to be chartered then it should have been done in July and then the most appropriate services for the chartered set should have been chosen - maybe the Manchester Airport to Lake District services to free up a train and drivers to use on another route?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. If a special train was to be chartered then it should have been done in July and then the most appropriate services for the chartered set should have been chosen - maybe the Manchester Airport to Lake District services to free up a train and drivers to use on another route?

I suspect the issue is with drivers at a specific depot trained on specific routes, otherwise there are a million and one other places on Northern where a couple of diagrams could be lopped out with far less impact to provide a unit and crew for Rose Hill etc. The most obvious one would seem to be the Cumbrian Coast which is back to a pretty much full service including hourly all the way round - dropping that to two hourly would free a couple up. But of course Barrow drivers and guards don't sign Rose Hill, and as the issue is training...

 

[edwin_m]

But of course Barrow drivers and guards don't sign Rose Hill, and as the issue is training...

And by the time they got to Manchester they wouldn't have much time to do anything useful before they had to start back again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And by the time they got to Manchester they wouldn't have much time to do anything useful before they had to start back again.

If it was a useful thing to do they could of course put them up in hotels - but it isn't, precisely because the problem is training!

 

[geoffk]

Hyde Central: Next to all the bus routes from Hyde Bus Station

Hyde Central is hardly "next to" the bus station. It's not really next to anything apart from ASDA.

 

[Ianno87]

Hyde Central is hardly "next to" the bus station. It's not really next to anything apart from ASDA.

So, unless you literally live on Hyde Central station, buses are closer anyway.

 

[Rail Ranger]

The West Coast Railways service now being reported as operating between Guide Bridge and Rose Hill.

 

[Ianno87]

The West Coast Railways service now being reported as operating between Guide Bridge and Rose Hill.

So one train shuttling back and forth on an hourly service.

Will be a sprightly platform turnback at Guide Bridge in the (normally) Manchester-bound platform.

 

[D365]

Not sure if this has been discussed, but Marple locals appear to be taking the possibility of a permanent closure very seriously:

[Photo from my dashcam of a banner reading "Save the Rose Hill Line" - www.saverosehill.co.uk]

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought for a minute they'd nicked the Labour Party branding for the rose, but it appears to be Labour Party led.

 

[yorksrob]

Not sure if this has been discussed, but Marple locals appear to be taking the possibility of a permanent closure very seriously:

[Photo from my dashcam of a banner reading "Save the Rose Hill Line" - www.saverosehill.co.uk]

Good for them.

It's clear that there is a breakdown in trust between Northern (and the powers that control it) and local passengers and stakeholders.

 

[py_megapixel]

Good for them.

It's clear that there is a breakdown in trust between Northern (and the powers that control it) and local passengers and stakeholders.

Indeed. I don't think you can blame them.

What reason does anyone - particularly in Marple, where their trains were shortformed for a while, then they have Pacers well past their withdrawal date, and now this - have to trust Northern to provide any sort of reliable service anymore?

It's an absolute shambles.