Track and Trace - is taking surnames necessary?

[Scotrail12]

I'm fine with giving my phone number when I'm at a restaurant for track and trace purposes but I've noticed that a number of them have asked for my surname after I've given my forename.

I feel it's a slight invasion of privacy especially since my surname is very uncommon and giving it out basically gives away my identity to people I don't know (probably nobody else in the city or surrounding area with the same forename + surname as me). Plus, nobody can spell it either.

Is it actually necessary for them to take surnames?

 

[furlong]

Treat it like a password - make one up. If someone calls and asks for that name you know the source of that information. In the highly unlikely event that you answered a call from someone claiming to be part of the scheme this might help you to judge whether or not it is genuine.

 

[HBP]

I just give my initials and my telephone number. If I’m unfortunate enough to get a call and they ask for ‘HBP’ then I know what it’s about. Not had any problem from any of establishments I’ve visited doing this.

 

[birchesgreen]

Make up a fake name, my Dad used to do this when he bought stuff from Tandys, who always wanted your name and address when you bought capacitors or bits of wire for some reason... Oh the larks when my mum once shouted his real name across the store just after he had given a fake one. :P

 

[Scotrail12]

Went out for lunch at a restaurant today - the person at the front desk was filling out the track and trace thing - I asked if surname was necessary and she said yes. I don't get it - why? And of course couldn't spell it again.

Would I be wrong to make up a fake one?

 

[Statto]

Make up a fake name, my Dad used to do this when he bought stuff from Tandys, who always wanted your name and address when you bought capacitors or bits of wire for some reason... Oh the larks when my mum once shouted his real name across the store just after he had given a fake one. :P

Talking about fake names one of my friends writing out a track & trace form in one of my locals last week wrote his name down as Big Dick.

 

[greyman42]

Went out for lunch at a restaurant today - the person at the front desk was filling out the track and trace thing - I asked if surname was necessary and she said yes. I don't get it - why? And of course couldn't spell it again.

Would I be wrong to make up a fake one?

If you wish to give a different name then there is nothing wrong with doing so.

 

[adrock1976]

There is nothing to stop you from calling yourself what you like (within reason) as long as it is not used for acts of fraud.

Notable people who use different names from their birth names are:

Richard Starkey (Ringo Starr)
Michael Barrett (Shakin' Stevens)
Vincent Furnier, who went the whole hog and changed his name by deed poll when he believed that he was possessed by a witch. The witch in question was Alice Cooper.

 

[farleigh]

There is nothing to stop you from calling yourself what you like (within reason) as long as it is not used for acts of fraud.

Notable people who use different names from their birth names are:

Richard Starkey (Ringo Starr)
Michael Barrett (Shakin' Stevens)
Vincent Furnier, who went the whole hog and changed his name by deed poll when he believed that he was possessed by a witch. The witch in question was Alice Cooper.

So should Shakey sign in as Stevens or Barrett in Wetherspoons?

 

[Ian Cunningham]

I'm fine with giving my phone number when I'm at a restaurant for track and trace purposes but I've noticed that a number of them have asked for my surname after I've given my forename.

I feel it's a slight invasion of privacy especially since my surname is very uncommon and giving it out basically gives away my identity to people I don't know (probably nobody else in the city or surrounding area with the same forename + surname as me). Plus, nobody can spell it either.

Is it actually necessary for them to take surnames?

We were down in Bedford at the end of July and one of the pubs we were in was asking for some form of ID to verify the personal details were correct and they didn't have a pubfull of Lord Lucans.
Track and Trace only works if they can actually get in touch with people so accurate contact details are vital

What I did pick them up on (and shows how you can easily create a problem while trying to fix another) is the member of staff handled everyone of our party's driving licences without any hand sanitsation thus creating a potential transmission chain of about 10 people. ho hum

 

[Huntergreed]

We were down in Bedford at the end of July and one of the pubs we were in was asking for some form of ID to verify the personal details were correct and they didn't have a pubfull of Lord Lucans.
Track and Trace only works if they can actually get in touch with people so accurate contact details are vital

What I did pick them up on (and shows how you can easily create a problem while trying to fix another) is the member of staff handled everyone of our party's driving licences without any hand sanitsation thus creating a potential transmission chain of about 10 people. ho hum

Here’s the thing with track and trace: it’s solely dependent on a strategy designed to minimise spread. Of course that seems to be what we’re, nationally, aiming to do at the moment, but is it really the best way forward? In my, admittedly slightly controversial, opinion, we shouldn’t need to rely on services like track and trace to attempt to lower the prevalence (because it obviously can’t be eliminated) and we need to, instead, allow the virus to work its way through the least vulnerable demographics. If we use track and trace, all this does is prolong this process.

 

[GusB]

No, there's no need to give a surname in my view. The owners of my local have been fairly on the ball with recording details, but even I was slightly bemused when I was asked for my surname. While the person behind the bar might not have known my surname, the proprietors do, and the village is such a small place anyway that all the regulars are known. All that's really required is an accurate contact number.

The Test & Trace/Protect programme is a good idea in theory, but it's woefully slow in practice (personal experience). My test result came back as negative, but if I had caught the virus it had been and gone by the time the wee box arrived in the post.

 

[43066]

I'm fine with giving my phone number when I'm at a restaurant for track and trace purposes but I've noticed that a number of them have asked for my surname after I've given my forename.

I feel it's a slight invasion of privacy especially since my surname is very uncommon and giving it out basically gives away my identity to people I don't know (probably nobody else in the city or surrounding area with the same forename + surname as me). Plus, nobody can spell it either.

Is it actually necessary for them to take surnames?

I don’t see why surnames should be necessary.

Personally I give a false number, along with a false name, because I don’t feel comfortable sharing my personal contact details unnecessarily.

It hasn’t caused me any issues so far, and I’ve never been asked for proof of ID. If I was I’d take my business elsewhere.

 

[Wuffle]

I believe Track and Trace may contravene GDPR laws

 

[43066]

we shouldn’t need to rely on services like track and trace to attempt to lower the prevalence (because it obviously can’t be eliminated) and we need to, instead, allow the virus to work its way through the least vulnerable demographics. If we use track and trace, all this does is prolong this process.

This is quite right, of course, but that would lead to the usual “you’re killing people” hysteria, which the government is too cowardly to confront.

We are killing people anyway through locking down and strangling the economy, of course, but most of the great unwashed in this country don’t understand this, and are incapable of seeing beyond their social media feeds.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I believe Track and Trace may contravene GDPR laws

I don't think the process as a whole does, but asking for surnames might.

The relevant section is:

"adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed" (my emphasis)

Contact details are necessary, as are details of when the visit was. Forenames are probably needed too, to ensure that when the track and trace contact you, they can use your name to address you so that you know they're speaking to you specifically. But I think the case for surnames is much more murky.

 

[mmh]

Using surnames to identify people doesn't breach GDPR. If it did, virtually everyone you receive a letter from would be breaking the law.

 

[AM9]

Using surnames to identify people doesn't breach GDPR. If it did, virtually everyone you receive a letter from would be breaking the law.

That's correct. GDPR is about handling and protecting data in a person's or organisation's possession, and any subsequent misuse. Those giving their details when entering a pub are doing so for the purposes of public health protection. Those that don't wish to will have to forgo entry into the premises. The fact is that many pubs are not complying with their legal obligations by not ensuring that they have accurate details which is mayby driven by their profit innterests.

 

[Bantamzen]

I have seen clear breaches of GDPR myself in at least a couple of pubs, simply leaving paper lists of customer's details lying around where other members of the public could easily see / photo them. I've always pointed this out, but just a surname and valid phone number gives a good hacker a handy starting point.

 

[talldave]

I think the concerns come from the fact that there's a sheet of paper knocking around with names and phone numbers on it?

 

[AM9]

I have seen clear breaches of GDPR myself in at least a couple of pubs, simply leaving paper lists of customer's details lying around where other members of the public could easily see / photo them. I've always pointed this out, but just a surname and valid phone number gives a good hacker a handy starting point.

Which is what I was saying, some seem to think that GDPR prevents anybody from gathering or holding personal information. It's alll about the responsibilities of looking after it, allowing an opt out after its role has been served and safely disposing of it when no longer legitimately needed.

I think the concerns come from the fact that there's a sheet of paper knocking around with names and phone numbers on it?

That is a failure of GDPR, i.e. not keeping it secure.

 

[Wuffle]

So I went to the horses mouth and I wonder how many small businesses have the capacity to do this ?
I worked for a multinational which had enough problems with data

( https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintai...rs-and-visitors-to-support-nhs-test-and-trace )

 

[Crossover]

On the GDPR issue, I don't believe it will be an issue when done properly, that being done in a secure way. One venue I frequented just had an open book at the entrance and a shared pen (plus sanitiser) - I did put correct details in that case but in hindsight if I came across similar again I may not do (or, of course, not frequent such a venue in the first place)

The fact is that many pubs are not complying with their legal obligations by not ensuring that they have accurate details

I don't believe there is any legal obligation, other than in Scotland, to collect details for T&T?

 

[DelW]

I have seen clear breaches of GDPR myself in at least a couple of pubs, simply leaving paper lists of customer's details lying around where other members of the public could easily see / photo them. I've always pointed this out, but just a surname and valid phone number gives a good hacker a handy starting point.

I think the concerns come from the fact that there's a sheet of paper knocking around with names and phone numbers on it?

My name and phone number have been on sheets of paper for decades ... they were called telephone directories.

 

[talldave]

My name and phone number have been on sheets of paper for decades ... they were called telephone directories.

And mine never have as I was always ex-directory. Same with the electoral roll.

 

[yorkie]

My name and phone number have been on sheets of paper for decades ... they were called telephone directories.

Not if you opted out, surely?

Giving your contract details to a venue for a specific reason is a quite different scenario to a telephone directory; the law will have changed a fair bit in a few decades too!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would not have a problem giving my details to any law enforcement of any type. Just me

 

[Bantamzen]

My name and phone number have been on sheets of paper for decades ... they were called telephone directories.

The difference being that the telephone directory gave a number to a device that was largely not connected to anything other than the telephone network, nor was it a device that might carry sensitive information that might be use to hackers, scammers etc. But all that is beside the point, GDPR requires companies collecting data (note collecting, which is not what the telephone directory did, they simply published information already owned by the telephone company) to only do so when required, & to store / use the data securely. So having an open book for all customer to see, and potentially copy is a breach.

 

[AM9]

The difference being that the telephone directory gave a number to a device that was largely not connected to anything other than the telephone network, nor was it a device that might carry sensitive information that might be use to hackers, scammers etc. But all that is beside the point, GDPR requires companies collecting data (note collecting, which is not what the telephone directory did, they simply published information already owned by the telephone company) to only do so when required, & to store / use the data securely. So having an open book for all customer to see, and potentially copy is a breach.

Which I thoroughly agree with. Such premises should be reported to the ICO. The fact that some companies are slapdash in their handling of data doesn't alter the need to capture and retain contact details of those visiting the premises for the duration of the current health situation. For those that don't like that, the fix is in their own hands, - there's no legal requirement for them to visit such establishments.

 

[43066]

Which I thoroughly agree with. Such premises should be reported to the ICO. The fact that some companies are slapdash in their handling of data doesn't alter the need to capture and retain contact details of those visiting the premises for the duration of the current health situation. For those that don't like that, the fix is in their own hands, - there's no legal requirement for them to visit such establishments.

You clearly don’t live in the same world I do. I have every intention of continuing to visit these establishments, but I *will not* be giving out my personal details.

It’s perfectly possible to visit pubs/restaurants and simply give false details. That way, everyone is a winner: they get my business, I don’t give my details out unnecessarily.

That’s what I do on the (very rare) occasions where I’m asked for details in hospitality venues, and that’s exactly what I will continue to do.