Family and Friends Card

[sy]

Hi I want to travel to Swindon from Swansea (return) with two adults and my son using a family and friends railcard. I am leaving my son with grandparents up there so I won't have a child coming back with me. Can I still buy a return ticket on the family railcard or just use it going up and buy two singles without card coming back??

 

[sonic2009]

Hi I want to travel to Swindon from Swansea (return) with two adults and my son using a family and friends railcard. I am leaving my son with grandparents up there so I won't have a child coming back with me. Can I still buy a return ticket on the family railcard or just use it going up and buy two singles without card coming back??

for your railcard to be valid, you have to have the children travelling with you on the way back, that what gives you the discount.

do you have an idea when you are travelling? i can look at advance fares for you, and other members can help of splitting, are you also coming back same day?

Additional accompanying passengers for whom discounted tickets are purchased must travel with the Railcard holder throughout the journey.

 

[John @ home]

Hi I want to travel to Swindon from Swansea (return) with two adults and my son using a family and friends railcard. I am leaving my son with grandparents up there so I won't have a child coming back with me. Can I still buy a return ticket on the family railcard or just use it going up and buy two singles without card coming back??

The Rules on the size of the group for a Family and Friends Railcard are complex:

Size of group

The minimum 'Family & Friends' group consists of at least one adult named on the Railcard and at least one child. Adults cannot travel alone on discount price tickets purchased with this Railcard.

The maximum group size is four adults (including either one or both named cardholders) and four children.

A child is anyone aged between 5 and 15 years when the Railcard is issued. They travel at the child’s discounted fare throughout the duration of the Railcard’s validity even if they become 16 during that time.

Children under 5 travel free and each adult may take up to two ‘under 5s’ with them, in addition to the maximum group size.

If the only child in the ‘Family & Friends’ group is under 5, then that child must have a child’s discounted price ticket. This still offers the advantage of the minimum ‘Family & Friends’ group facility allowed.

Discounted price tickets purchased by a Family & Friends Railcard holder should be issued for travel for the same origin and destination and should normally be of the same ticket type (example all Off-Peak Returns). However the Railcard group can be extended either on the outward or return journey, up to the maximum group size detailed above. If the group size is increased for a complete return journey then discounted price tickets of the same type can be either purchased in advance of travel or at the ticket office before the journey commences.

If the group size is increased for only the outward or return leg of a journey, then appropriate discounted single tickets should be issued for the new members of the group. It is in this situation that the ticket type may vary.

The group, whatever the size, must stay together throughout the journey as the Family & Friends Railcard validates all tickets. The only exception is for the purpose of allowing parents to take children to, or collect them from, for example, school or hospital,i.e. the adult(s) make one leg of a return journey without children. In which case the Railcard holder(s) with their Railcard and an undiscounted return ticket of the type normally only available with a Family & Friends Railcard and up to four children each holding a Child’s discounted price Single ticket for the journey being made by the Railcard holder(s) is allowed.

My interpretation of this for a journey where two adults + 1 child travel outwards but the two adults return without any children is:

• if using return tickets, the two adults must buy undiscounted tickets
• if using single tickets, such as Advance tickets, the two adults may use discounted tickets for the outward journey but must use undiscounted tickets for the return journey
• in both cases, the child may use a single ticket with the 81% child F&F Railcard discount applied.

 

[sy]

yes we are coming back the same day (18th Aug). Looks like I will have to buy two singles coming back, I think it only works out about 3 or 4 pound more.

 

[sonic2009]

okay. having a look on advances.

on the 0938,1038,1138,1238,1438 trains from swindon you can get an advance single for £10.55

these trains arrive swansea 1143,1243,1343,1443,1643

this price quoted is with a family + friends Railcard for 2adults and 1child

All Trains from Swansea returning starting @ 1528 until the Last Train at 2028

Advance Singles are going @ £14.00 for 2 adults with no children,and no railcard..

hope this helps.

 

[sy]

Thanks so much, can't wait for my day out - I don't travel on trains much! x

 

[Failed Unit]

The Rules on the size of the group for a Family and Friends Railcard are complex:My interpretation of this for a journey where two adults + 1 child travel outwards but the two adults return without any children is:

• if using return tickets, the two adults must buy undiscounted tickets
• if using single tickets, such as Advance tickets, the two adults may use discounted tickets for the outward journey but must use undiscounted tickets for the return journey
• in both cases, the child may use a single ticket with the 81% child F&F Railcard discount applied.

Sorry to bump this up but it has got me interested from another thread, where is that take you child to school / hospital etc documented. It is not on the leaflet or online t&c's as the group size only states the adult and child must travel together.

Have the terms changed or should I be looking elsewhere?

 

[John @ home]

Sorry to bump this up but it has got me interested from another thread, where is that take you child to school / hospital etc documented. It is not on the leaflet or online t&c's as the group size only states the adult and child must travel together.

Have the terms changed or should I be looking elsewhere?

The Size of Group quotation in post #3 is from The Manual, the internal rail industry document. My friend with access to The Manual tells me that there has been no change at all to the final paragraph of the Size of Group section, and no substantive change to the remainder of the section.

The last occasion I can trace where this information appeared in the public domain was for National Fares Manual NFM 99, which was valid from May - September 2008. ATOC placed parts of this on the internet, and the relevant wording from Chapter F of NFM 99 was:

Discounted Travel

Family & Friends Railcard

Special conditions

When a child/children travel one leg of a return journey only, the adult’s ticket must be an undiscounted return ticket of the type available with the Family & Friends Railcard and the child’s single ticket should have the child’s Family & Friends Railcard discount applied.

A copy of Chapter F of NFM 99 is attached.

Obviously the current version of this information must be made available to the public because it forms part of the contract formed by the purchase of a Family & Friends Railcard. Unfortunately I am unable to trace anywhere that it is actually made available to the public at present. My suggestion is that Failed Unit should use WhatDoTheyKnow to ask East Coast, the only TOC currently answering Freedom of Information requests, to state in detail the current Size of group rules for a Family & Friends Railcard.

 

[Failed Unit]

Very interesting - Thanks John I will ask east coast. Could quite easily end up with a penalty fare if people interpret the rules differently and the passenger doesn't have anything in the public domain to defend themselves with. The "the ticket office who sold it to me said it was OK" never works.