Valid routes on BML ending at Brighton

[MrJeeves]

I've got a season ticket between Wivelsfield and Brighton.

I understand that a valid route between Wivelsfield and Brighton is via Hove. I have been informed by station staff and train crew members that's between Wivelsfield and Brighton you can also travel up to Haywards Heath to change train, however I can't seem to produce this route via NRE or on the ATOS routing info.

I suppose my questions are as follows:
1. Is Wivelsfield/Burgess Hill -> Hove -> Brighton a valid route?
2. What about Wivelsfield/Burgess Hill -> Haywards Heath -> Brighton?
3. If 1 is a valid route, is it correct that I should be able to break my travel at Hove station?
a. What do you think the chances are that the ticket barriers with actually let me exit?
4. If 2 is a valid route, I should be able to break at HH too, yes?

I personally don't believe that via Haywards Heath is a valid route, purely because of the backtrack and X miles rules, but I know people who have done it with no issues. Could this be one of those situations where it's against the rules, but no staff actually care since it's such a minor infraction, similar to how staff will accept tickets from London to Wivelsfield at Burgess Hill, despite Burgess Hill being beyond their validity and tickets costing slightly more (pennies).

Obviously, breaking a bylaw is breaking a bylaw, no matter how minor or serious it is.

 

[Kilopylae]

From where do you understand that Wiveslfield to Brighton is valid via Hove? As far as I can see, that would not be a permitted route. Both Wivelsfield and Brighton are routeing points, the latter part of Brighton Group, and the only map listed in the yellow pages for the two is CW, where they are connected with a single line.

Edit: Wivelsfield to Brighton via Hove is valid as it is within three miles of the shortest route. See alistairlees's post #3 below.

Neither via Hove nor via Haywards Heath are permitted routes for a journey from Wiveslfield to Brighton.

However, interestingly, both would be valid for a journey from Wivelsfield to Lewes and beyond — just not to Brighton. Via Hove would be permitted by the group stations rule (doubling back is permitted within a station group for journeys that both start and finish outside the station group), as Hove is part of Brighton Group. Via Haywards Heath is allowed by an easement, Easement 700502. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be this validity to Lewes and beyond that led to staff advising you these were permitted routes.

 

[alistairlees]

Hove is also a member of Brighton Group. A journey from Wivelsfield to Brighton is valid via Hove as it is a mapped journey on map CW and, in any case, it's only about 1.5 miles longer than the shortest route by rail.

I don't see that journeys via Haywards Heath are valid, however.

 

[MrJeeves]

Thanks for your inputs, guys.

I actually wasn't sure whether via Hove was a valid route from Wivelsfield, but I can see that it is from Burgess Hill.

Since my season ticket is valid from Wivelsfield, couldn't it be seen as changing at Burgess Hill, which might make via Hove valid? At which point would it change from "changing train" to "finishing journey and starting new journey"?

As you state going to Hove and back to Brighton is only 1.5 mi, just brings me back to my original question. Could I break my journey at Hove?

 

[alistairlees]

Sorry, I had missed the part about it being a season ticket, somehow.

Your season ticket is valid via Hove (I'm assuming it's Any Permitted route 01000 - I can't see any others). You can break your journey at Hove or any other station between Brighton and Wivelsfield. You can make as many journeys as you want beetween any of these stations, as many times as you want, every day during the validity of your season ticket.

The fact your season ticket allows you to travel via Burgess Hill does not change how the routeing guide is used to determine validity; the routeing guide is not recursive, and you can't split journeys into parts to determine valid routes. But anyway, it's valid via Hove, so Burgess Hill does not need to be considered.

 

[JB_B]

...I actually wasn't sure whether via Hove was a valid route from Wivelsfield, but I can see that it is from Burgess Hill...

It makes no difference, heading to Brighton those would both be valid via Hove by the 'within 3 miles of the shortest route by rail' rule.


As @Kilopylae as suggests, tickets from Wivelsfield to Lewes are valid both via Brighton Group (including Hove) and via Plumpton. So that ticket is more flexible than Wivelsfield to Brighton but costs no more . ( Day returns are the same price; season tickets are actually slightly cheaper.)

You can check for valid routes by seeing if NRE will offer a single ticket for the journey ( using a matching ticket routeing ).

Off-peak return Wivelsfield-Lewes 6.40 valid via Hove

The official source for trains in Great Britain | National Rail

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ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

Off-peak return Wivelsfield-Lewes 6.40 valid via Plumpton

The official source for trains in Great Britain | National Rail

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With a season ticket you can break your journey, stop short, start long, and you can switch between any permitted routes from your origin to your destination at any point en route.



If you want validity via Haywards Heath then consider buying Burgess Hill to Lewes (season same price as Wivelsfield Brighton; day tickets are cheaper) - that would allow you to go via Haywards Heath ( taking advantage of easement 700502 ).

Off-peak return Burgess Hill-Lewes 5.90 valid via Hove

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Off-peak return Burgess Hill-Lewes 5.90 valid via Haywards Heath and Plumpton

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[MikeWh]

Via Hove would be permitted by the group stations rule (doubling back is permitted within a station group for journeys that both start and finish outside the station group), as Hove is part of Brighton Group.

Minor point, but travelling Preston Park -> Hove -> Brighton does not involve doubling back.

 

[Kilopylae]

A journey from Wivelsfield to Brighton is valid via Hove as it is (...) only about 1.5 miles longer than the shortest route by rail.

Good spot. I've amended my original post accordingly.

 

[MrJeeves]

It makes no difference, heading to Brighton those would both be valid via Hove by the 'within 3 miles of the shortest route by rail' rule.


As @Kilopylae as suggests, tickets from Wivelsfield to Lewes are valid both via Brighton Group (including Hove) and via Plumpton. So that ticket is more flexible than Wivelsfield to Brighton but costs no more . ( Day returns are the same price; season tickets are actually slightly cheaper.)

You can check for valid routes by seeing if NRE will offer a single ticket for the journey ( using a matching ticket routeing ).

Off-peak return Wivelsfield-Lewes 6.40 valid via Hove

The official source for trains in Great Britain | National Rail

The gateway to Britain's national rail network. The portal to rail travel, including train times, information, fares enquiries, promotions and tickets

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

Off-peak return Wivelsfield-Lewes 6.40 valid via Plumpton

The official source for trains in Great Britain | National Rail

The gateway to Britain's national rail network. The portal to rail travel, including train times, information, fares enquiries, promotions and tickets

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

With a season ticket you can break your journey, stop short, start long, and you can switch between any permitted routes from your origin to your destination at any point en route.



If you want validity via Haywards Heath then consider buying Burgess Hill to Lewes (season same price as Wivelsfield Brighton; day tickets are cheaper) - that would allow you to go via Haywards Heath ( taking advantage of easement 700502 ).

Off-peak return Burgess Hill-Lewes 5.90 valid via Hove

The official source for trains in Great Britain | National Rail

The gateway to Britain's national rail network. The portal to rail travel, including train times, information, fares enquiries, promotions and tickets

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

Off-peak return Burgess Hill-Lewes 5.90 valid via Haywards Heath and Plumpton

The official source for trains in Great Britain | National Rail

The gateway to Britain's national rail network. The portal to rail travel, including train times, information, fares enquiries, promotions and tickets

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

Wow! I never would have thought of that, but you make a great point.

I'd assume that the ticket barriers wouldn't have any issue, but you never know really.

I use the Key Smartcard for my ticket, so flashing it at the staff member isn't that easy. I just wonder whether I'd ever end up having to "fight" for myself, but hopefully staff would be aware of the valid routes.

I'll make sure to do that next year, but I wish I had asked this earlier!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2020 ==

Now I think of it, that season ticket is very powerful... Because you can go via Brighton, it would also let you break at London Road, Falmer, and Moulsecoomb, too, along with Cooksbridge and Plumpton. Now I'm really regretting not checking first!