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In one of my books about the ECML there is a picture of 40 117 hauling a 10 coach train (the 08.05 from York to KX) south through Grantham. It was on the 24 May 1980, and the fact it was Summer is relevant because the train is made up of MkII air con stock. But I didn't think class 40s were ever fitted with ETH, am I wrong ? If I'm right how does it make sense ?
That's a double negative, I assume you mean they were never ETH fitted ! Have you any idea how a non ETH loco can be hauling an air conditioned train in the summer ?
That happened more times than I care to remember back in the 1980's. Living in Chester, a run up the North Wales coast would often yield summer extras with air-con Mk2 or Mk3 sets. If an ETH 47 was available, fine, but 40's & occasionally steam heat peaks were known to appear.
Being gently broiled on a Coast & Peaks was all the rage back in the day!
That's a double negative, I assume you mean they were never ETH fitted ! Have you any idea how a non ETH loco can be hauling an air conditioned train in the summer ?
Happened to me but with a pair of Class 31s - non boilered, non ETH but dual braked of course. I already posted in the nostalgia thread but here goes.
Reminds me of the time an electric - cant remember if it was an 86 or 87 , could not go further at Carlisle as wires were down somewhere. I was travelling to Preston with the train going on to Euston. They put a pair of class 31s on at Carlisle (non ETH and non boilered) and towed the train down the Settle and Carlisle Clitheroe and Blackburn. At Preston there were loads of moans from the passengers. I then heard a rail enthusiast in a loud voice say to his buddies "The ungrateful ba------s - they are moaning when they have just had a ride behind a pair of non-boilered, non ETH Goyles down the Settle and Carlisle line -what more could they want? "
That's a double negative, I assume you mean they were never ETH fitted ! Have you any idea how a non ETH loco can be hauling an air conditioned train in the summer ?
I have memories of Class 40s sometimes being used in place of 47s on the Blackpool to Preston leg of the Euston trains back in the late 70s and early 80s. Stock would have been Mk2f air con at the time. I may even have a photo somewhere.
<Class 40 nerdy mode on>
Actually D255 was experimentally fitted with electric train heating, but it was not deemed to be a success, and the experiment was not repeated. The equipment was removed from D255 (later 40055). <Class 40 nerdy mode off>
I have a strong memory of having 40091 on a Llandudno - Euston service with a rake of air-con Mk 2s in the middle of a heatwave. The train was full and standing, and people were beginning to feel ill long before Crewe. Having a no-heat loco on an air-con train in summer was all too common back then. Great for the haulage bashers, not so good for the normal punters.
Back in 1975 I witnessed a Western class 52 at Exeter St Davids arrive and depart for Paddington on an IC service formed completely of mk2e air con (save for catering vehicle) stock. Funny thing was that the following Paddington bound class 50 hauled service was a full non air-con set!
Haha you just pipped me there Mr C! Was just thinking of you when I posted
(Don't worry I won't post the picture of it again)
The Birmingham/Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh services in the late 1970s made a gradual transition, even within the consist, to AC, first just the odd coach, then several, then mostly. No problem on the AC lines, but nobody passed this on to Haymarket, who sent out a non-ETH 27 or 40 on the service. In summer, the AC vehicles became hot and stuffy. In winter, the boiler might be connected up but the heat didn't get further back than the first AC vehicle, which of course had no through steam lines.
I recall 45052 on the Poole to Newcastle from Birmingham new street all the way to Newcastle. In about 1986. The stock was all aircon apart from the buffet and full brake. The loco in to new street was probably a 47/4 (it was a booked loco change). 45052 had earlier worked the southbound Newcastle to Poole in To Birmingham new street having replaced an ETH 45 at Sheffield. The ETH peak hadn’t failed, it had just run low on fuel. By this time this diagram was absolutely solid ETH 45s and 47s. We really did not expect saltley to kick it back out for the return trip, or for it to get past derby or Sheffield without being replaced. But it did.
In one of my books about the ECML there is a picture of 40 117 hauling a 10 coach train (the 08.05 from York to KX) south through Grantham. It was on the 24 May 1980, and the fact it was Summer is relevant because the train is made up of MkII air con stock. But I didn't think class 40s were ever fitted with ETH, am I wrong ? If I'm right how does it make sense ?
If it had been a sunny warm day (and it was late May) I hate to think how hot it got in those coaches. At least the door windows dropped down, these days it'd be even worse as hardly any coaching stock has drop down door windows.
If it had been a sunny warm day (and it was late May) I hate to think how hot it got in those coaches. At least the door windows dropped down, these days it'd be even worse as hardly any coaching stock has drop down door windows.
Except as, I recall from the Harris Mk2 book, once the internal handles were removed from the Mk2Ds the door droplights were unlocked to allow access to the outside handle but were spring-loaded to return to the closed position. Not sure how 2E and F were set-up.
Even 47/0 or 47/3 workings were very common on air cons over the years, especially in BR days and in summer. Many drags at weekends were booked or could regularly drop pretty much any mainline loco that BR could crew, even in the winter, so 40s and pairs of 20s (and the rest!) on full IC rakes of all or part air cons weren't all that rare at one point. The last occasions I recall on the drags that were booked in advance were RFD 47s between Birmingham and Nuneaton in the late 90s via Virgin. The same no heat 47s plied their trade often on all manner of XC workings in the late 90s along with other classes sometimes if driver knowledge permitted and Virgin were desperate enough. The last no heat loco I remember having on a service train with air cons was probably 47197 on the 16xx Holyhead to Chester Virgin service when it was hired during engineering works due to a lack of shunting staff at Chester available for the 47/8 on the West end to run round. The line was shut via Beeston Castle and by that point Virgin had given up running via Middlewich for a time.
All of my class 40 runs on air con sets that I'm aware of were work related and always had either generator car or 47 on the back for train supply so not as uncomfortable as BR days so long as the set was behaving. Anything in the early 80s I was a bit young to remember, although Trans Pennine services with 40s dropping occasionally at the time were most likely pv Mk2 stock.
Commuting on the GE main line in the 1980's often produced a non ETH loco on Mk2 air con stock, usually a class 31 or 47/0.
Most comfortable coach was the Mk1 buffet ( and source of McEwans )
The slowest ride home was an ETH 31 + 10 Mk2 AirCon. Barely 20mph on Brentwood Bank.
I remember having 58013 on a rake of mark 3s in 1989. Also a few 47/0 or 47/3s turned up that year; even had a pair of 31s! Think they didn't drag, the diesel worked Wolverhampton to Nuneaton where loco was changed for an electric.
In a photograph of the Royal Scot being headed by a 40 on Flickr (may be the sane day as the video, not sure), people in the comments were alluding to that very suggestion!
Prior to the electrification to Peterborough the Kings Cross to Peterborough service was loco hauled and often with aircon stock and non ETH loco, classes 31,40,46 and ocasionally 47's. In hot summer the drop lights were wedged open and saloon doors left open to provide ventalation. When electrified the commuters were not happy for 2+2 hauled stock replaced with 2 +3 class 317's, although at least they had proper ventilation.
The 40 in question was 40152. On Saturday 02/04/83 it worked 11:40 Carlisle - Preston via S&C (!0:10 Glasgow - Euston "Royal Scot") and 15:40 Preston - Carlisle via S&C (12:45 Euston - Glasgow). Both trains were entirely air conditioned stock. The 40 had originally been allocated to work south overnight on the 22:00 Stranraer - Euston, but they dug out 47199 for that train at the last minute (after several 40 bashers had travelled lengthy distances to get to Carlisle for it).
The suggestion that somebody had allocated the 40 to the Royal Scot just for kicks is probably wide of the truth. It's not like there was an ETH 47 sitting on the shed waiting to be used, and they turned out the 40 instead. Indeed it probably made more sense to use the 40 on the load 10 / 11 daytime trains rather than the load 16 Stranraer overnight. One or other of the daytime diagrams was going to be worked by the 40, there just weren't enough 47s available at the right place at the right time.
It was quite an interesting and busy Easter weekend. I won't clutter up this thread with further reminiscences, I promise!
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I remember having 58013 on a rake of mark 3s in 1989. Also a few 47/0 or 47/3s turned up that year; even had a pair of 31s! Think they didn't drag, the diesel worked Wolverhampton to Nuneaton where loco was changed for an electric.
Usually they did drag, with the electric working Wolves - New Street, diesel pilot attached and pan down on the electric to drag to Nuneaton, then detach diesel pilot and electric forward.
Some examples from Sunday 06/11/88:
58021 load 10 + 86245 dead, 10:58 New Street - Nuneaton.
58003 load 13 + 86248 dead, 11:36 Nuneaton - New Street. (My notes remark that I leapt off 58021 whilst still moving, and joined 58003 while already moving, so my stay in Nuneaton could be measured in seconds!)
58014 load 12 + 87027 dead, 13:58 New Street - Nuneaton.
47110 load 11 + 90004 dead, 15:52 Nuneaton - New Street.
58005 load 11 + 87031 dead, 16:27 New Street - Nuneaton.
58014 load 10 + 86249 dead, 17:34 Nuneaton - New Street.
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