Last steam service on a long distance route

[Journeyman]

It's roughly 315 miles, so the fare of 15 guineas was a shilling a mile for first class seating with at seat service and a meal included. Not sure how that compared with average mileage rates at the time, but I felt it was definitely well worth it, and so did everyone else I spoke to on it. In perspective, in 1968 many people earned around £20 a week.

The 15 Guinea Special was formed entirely of TSOs and BSOs for the passenger accommodation, so was second class only.

Two vehicles from the train survive at the East Lancashire Railway.

 

[S&CLER]

The 15 Guinea Special was formed entirely of TSOs for the passenger accommodation, so was second class only.

Two vehicles from the train survive at the East Lancashire Railway.

My memory playing tricks. What was the average 2nd class fare per mile in 1968 I wonder?

I think we may have had more than one meal, though: we certainly got a lunch and I seem to recall that there was a light afternoon tea. Can't recall if morning coffee was included. Alas, the souvenir wine bottle I kept has disappeared, probably during a house move, as has the certificate.

 

[Journeyman]

My memory playing tricks. What was the average 2nd class fare per mile in 1968 I wonder?

I think we may have had more than one meal, though: we certainly got a lunch and I seem to recall that there was a light afternoon tea. Can't recall if morning coffee was included. Alas, the souvenir wine bottle I kept has disappeared, probably during a house move, as has the certificate.

This might jog your memory.

 

[AndyCK]

After that, I think there were a handful of light engine movements of withdrawn locos. going to preservation sites - I believe 73050 going to Peterborough (for Nene Valley line) was one such move.

70013 running light engine to Norwich on the 12th August was another move. It then ran to Diss on 13th August for transport by road to Bressingham, but I don't know if it went under its own steam to Diss.

 

[47296lastduff]

The routing of the Manchester to Heysham was nothing fancy, Bolton, Preston, Lancaster, Morecambe (reverse).
I think lots more people were photographing the steam workings rather than riding, as disposable income was in relatively short supply at the time.
As for loco bashing such as we know it today, I'm sure that was definitely a niche activity.

 

[30907]

As for loco bashing such as we know it today, I'm sure that was definitely a niche activity.

Shed bashing was popular though - I had (younger) school friends who travelled up from London to do Rose Grove etc - probably before they turned 14.

 

[S&CLER]

This might jog your memory.

Wonderful! Many thanks for coming up with this. It was a half bottle of Médoc that I kept for years. I never thought of keeping the menu. My most vivid memory of the day is the incredible crowds all along the route, even in the remotest parts of the S&C. I wonder how many other forum members were on the train and are still with us.

 

[Journeyman]

Wonderful! Many thanks for coming up with this. It was a half bottle of Médoc that I kept for years. I never thought of keeping the menu. My most vivid memory of the day is the incredible crowds all along the route, even in the remotest parts of the S&C. I wonder how many other forum members were on the train and are still with us.

I bet it was quite something! How old were you at the time? I was minus six.

Shed bashing was popular though - I had (younger) school friends who travelled up from London to do Rose Grove etc - probably before they turned 14.

Nicholas Whittaker talks quite a lot about it in Platform Souls, which is a great read - he was about that age at the end of steam and visited lots of the surviving sheds in the north west.

It survived as an activity until surprisingly recently - my most memorable experience of it as a teen was sneaking into Bounds Green to admire brand new and pristine 91001.

 

[S&CLER]

I bet it was quite something! How old were you at the time? I was minus six.


Nicholas Whittaker talks quite a lot about it in Platform Souls, which is a great read - he was about that age at the end of steam and visited lots of the surviving sheds in the north west.

It survived as an activity until surprisingly recently - my most memorable experience of it as a teen was sneaking into Bounds Green to admire brand new and pristine 91001.

I was 20 in 1968, and it was the Long Vacation of my first year at university. I must have been still away in college on Saturday 3 August, and not come home till a few days later, as otherwise I would certainly have walked round from home to Maghull station, about 15 minutes away, to see the final service steam train pass. At a pinch, I could have got a glimpse of it by leaning out of my bedroom window.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was 20 in 1968, and it was the Long Vacation of my first year at university. I must have been still away in college on Friday 3 August, and not come home till a few days later, as otherwise I would certainly have walked round from home to Maghull station, about 15 minutes away, to see the final service steam train pass. At a pinch, I could have got a glimpse of it by leaning out of my bedroom window.

at the time of course you'd have needed to know it was going to happen. How did that typically happen, grape vine at platform ends (you'd have to be there) or telephone tree (you'd have to have a phone - and be in to answer it)?

 

[Journeyman]

at the time of course you'd have needed to know it was going to happen. How did that typically happen, grape vine at platform ends (you'd have to be there) or telephone tree (you'd have to have a phone - and be in to answer it)?

This was the thing I was curious about - were steam passenger services right at the end reliably diagrammed, or was it bit of a lottery?

 

[Taunton]

at the time of course you'd have needed to know it was going to happen. How did that typically happen

It was actually described in the Daily Mail that morning, likely others too as they probably did a press release.

 

[Cowley]

I bet it was quite something! How old were you at the time? I was minus six.



Nicholas Whittaker talks quite a lot about it in Platform Souls, which is a great read - he was about that age at the end of steam and visited lots of the surviving sheds in the north west.

It survived as an activity until surprisingly recently - my most memorable experience of it as a teen was sneaking into Bounds Green to admire brand new and pristine 91001.

Pretty much the same age as you @Journeyman and although I don’t want to be twenty years older at the moment sometimes I wish I was...

 

[Journeyman]

Pretty much the same age as you @Journeyman and although I don’t want to be twenty years older at the moment sometimes I wish I was...

I know what you mean - if I had a time machine, I'd just use it for trainspotting.

 

[DerekC]

During the end of steam I was going through that strange phase of being more interested in girls than locomotives. I do recall, though - I think in 1967 - being surprised to see steam locomotives still operating somewhere in Wales. Could it have been Barmouth?

 

[RT4038]

This was the thing I was curious about - were steam passenger services right at the end reliably diagrammed, or was it bit of a lottery?

I don't think there were any diagrammed steam passenger services right at the end. There were often steam substitutions, and the last two trains on the Saturday night were exactly that, officially arranged.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

During the end of steam I was going through that strange phase of being more interested in girls than locomotives. I do recall, though - I think in 1967 - being surprised to see steam locomotives still operating somewhere in Wales. Could it have been Barmouth?

Steam on the Cambrian finished in March 1967.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2020 ==

This was the thing I was curious about - were steam passenger services right at the end reliably diagrammed, or was it bit of a lottery?

Reading the books by Keith Widdowson gives some insight into this, there were regular diagrams, but I recall that the enthusiasts also sought out the many weekend reliefs, often through the night, during the last summer of steam. Sadly I was too young to be let loose on my own (and lived too far away from the action in the North West), find it amazing how many young people spent every weekend travelling on the last steam hauled trains, reading Widdowson's accounts I've no idea how he made it into work on Monday mornings in a fit state.
Enthusiasts shared information, some were 'in the know' and passed on information re haulage and specials in casual conversation....often in seems in the early hours at Crewe, Preston and Carlisle, for example.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Slightly bending the question terms, on 30/07/1966 I sampled the last class 1 passenger train to be booked for steam and electric and diesel haulage . The 0117 Manchester Picc to Cleethorpes started from a platform on the ac side, where a roadway allowed newspaper vans to pull alongside for easy loading. We had 42644 to Guide Bridge, then 27001 (class 77) to Penistone, then D6811 to Cleethorpes.

Ha ha! That really is an interesting "last one" achievement!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2020 ==

Well, I was there! A regular on the 'Belfast Boat Express' from Manchester Victoria to Heysham until the end of steam on that service in May 1968. The 12-44 and 20-50 Preston - Blackpool South, both steam jobs that summer, and was on the last service steam job of all, the 21-25 Preston to Liverpool Exchange behind 45318 on August 3rd 1968. Happy days!

That makes two of us, then
I never did the BBE - was it officially a named train, or was that just an enthusiasts' term? Yes, I know it carried a headboard at the end, but that could have been an enthusiasts' creation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2020 ==

I don't think there were any diagrammed steam passenger services right at the end. There were often steam substitutions, and the last two trains on the Saturday night were exactly that, officially arranged.

It depends on what you mean by "officialy arranged" surely? The Liverpool train was steam on the night of Friday, August 2 (though I was so knocked out, even though I was in Preston, I didn't see it) and the Blackpool train was steam on the Saturday previously - I was on that, so I can vouch for it.

 

[Bevan Price]

For anyone interested, these are photos of 45110 at Rainhill, with the 15 Guinea Special on 11 August 1968.
Before anyone comments, the police were present to supervise the crowds, and the section had been "closed" in both directions for the duration of the photo stop. (That had been common practice on steam railtours in the 1960s)

 

[neilmc]

July 9th 1967 could be argued as being the last date to see steam service on a long-distance route, from Waterloo down to Weymouth.

Over the following few weeks a "Jubilee" hauled a relief Leeds to Carlisle train on Saturdays, which is a fairly long distance.

Beyond that into 1968, probably only the Manchester-Heysham boat trains might just about qualify.

 

[70014IronDuke]

July 9th 1967 could be argued as being the last date to see steam service on a long-distance route, from Waterloo down to Weymouth. ....

Except, of course, there were hardly any steam workings on that final Sunday. In fact, were there ANY full length workings, ie Waterloo - Weymouth or v v on that day?

You can get tied up for ever with definitions. I didn't want to go on the 15 guinea special, because I knew it would not be the last steam-hauled special on BR metals, and I thought it a con job.

For me, the last ever, standard-gauge regular BR steam-hauled train was the 21.25 Preston to Liverpool on Aug 3, 68. Any Joe or Mary could go up to Preston booking hall, buy a ticket and get on the train - though few did, I suspect.

If you want to argue that the 26 (?) or so miles between the two cities is not long-distance, I suggest you try walking it

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Except, of course, there were hardly any steam workings on that final Sunday. In fact, were there ANY full length workings, ie Waterloo - Weymouth or v v on that day?

Yes, there was....14h07 Weymouth - Waterloo with 35030, I was on it from Southampton with my father. Supposedly covering a diesel failure, only comparatively recently did I learn of the shenanigans that occurred on arrival at Bournemouth when Control were not happy and ordered the MN to be taken off, so it was uncoupled then that order was countermanded and it was thankfully recoupled.

 

[46223]

I don't think there were any diagrammed steam passenger services right at the end. There were often steam substitutions, and the last two trains on the Saturday night were exactly that, officially arranged.

I don't know about the 21-25 Preston-Liverpool on August 3rd 1968, but the 20-50 Preston- Blackpool South was not officially arranged. It was a regular steam job that summer. I rode on it on several Saturday evenings during May, June and July after steam had finished on the 'Belfast Boat Express'.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2020 ==

Great stuff! What route did the Heysham service take? Also - in those final days were there lots of enthusiasts on board those services or just a few more than you would expect? I imagine in some ways the mood must have been rather sombre / sad?

Manchester Victoria-Bolton-Chorley-Preston-Lancaster-Morecambe Promenade (reverse)- Heysham.
Lots of enthusiasts rode this train especially at weekends. I think the sad / sombre mood only kicked in at the end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2020 ==

That makes two of us, then
I never did the BBE - was it officially a named train, or was that just an enthusiasts' term? Yes, I know it carried a headboard at the end, but that could have been an enthusiasts' creation.

It was an officially named train, and yes, the headboard worn at the end was made by an enthusiast.

 

[Bevan Price]

I don't know about the 21-25 Preston-Liverpool on August 3rd 1968, but the 20-50 Preston- Blackpool South was not officially arranged. It was a regular steam job that summer. I rode on it on several Saturday evenings during May, June and July after steam had finished on the 'Belfast Boat Express'.

Yes - the 21:25 Preston - Liverpool Exchange had seen some diesel operation from late May 1968, but it was provided by Lostock Hall depot, whose staff were on good terms with a few local enthusiasts, and it was known well in advance that - other than due to a failure - that train would be steam operated on 3 August 1968.

 

[46223]

I can thoroughly recommend a book published in 2018 by OPC/Crecy called "British Railways Steam 1968: The Final Chapters" by Stephen Leyland which is a diary of his chasing of steam in Lancashire as workings wound down during the final months. Most of his travelling was between Manchester Victoria, Preston, Liverpool Exchange, Heysham and Blackpool South and he goes into a lot of detail about the final scheduled passenger workings as well as railtours, parcels and freight. He did try to find any unusual steam-hauled passenger workings but with little success, however on Easter Monday that year he chanced a visit to Blackpool North and he managed to find and travel behind 45268 on a relief service to Accrington. A very interesting book with many photos!

Steve Leyland is a good friend of mine. I remember going with him to Blackpool on Easter Monday 1968. We rode to Blackpool South on the 12-44 from Preston which was hauled by 45149. We walked up the prom to Blackpool North and caught the Accrington train behind 45268. If I remember correctly it was extended to Colne at the last minute.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I don't know about the 21-25 Preston-Liverpool on August 3rd 1968, but the 20-50 Preston- Blackpool South was not officially arranged. It was a regular steam job that summer. I rode on it on several Saturday evenings during May, June and July after steam had finished on the 'Belfast Boat Express'.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2020 ==

I suspect this was diagrammed for steam as the loco (as I am sure you know) acted as a sort of station pilot from c 23.00 and then carriage heating unit from c 04.00 to c 07.30 on the detached sleepers off the Barrow sleeper.

Tieing up a diesel, even a Cl 24, would have been a waste of a diesel, relative to the costs of a steam.

It was an officially named train, and yes, the headboard worn at the end was made by an enthusiast.

Thanks.