Fare evasion help!!!!!

[clagmonster]

The 11:40, 12:39 (ran 12 minutes late), 13:39 and 14:40 trains from Victoria to Oxford Road all departed from platform 3, which is their scheduled platform and adjacent to the ticket barriers to enter the station.

The 11:08, 13:08 and 15:07 from Victoria to Warrington Bank Quay left from platforms 5, 4 and 5 respectively, again their booked platforms. Both platforms 4 and 5 are over the bridge from platform 3 where you needed to be and where you would have been went entering the station.

With those two statements in mind, may I ask how you came to be on the platform for the Warrington train? Were you in fact looking to change at Salford Crescent for Oxford Road

 

[Haywain]

Boarded 1548 departure from Central

That being a train which does call at Oxford Road. The mystery deepens.

 

[SuspectUsual]

A quick google and I’ve answered at least half of my question. Warrington Central has ticket gates. So, how did the OP get onto the platform there?

 

[John R]

I’m still really struggling with the timings in all of this. Perhaps the OP can help (and apologies if it’s me being thick - it usually is)

The trains from Victoria to Bank Quay are every two hours, just after the odd hour. So I presume you got the 13:07 getting to Warrington at about 13:45

You’re then back at Piccadilly talking to the revenue person at 16:27, having caught the first available train back, which was from Central not Bank Quay

The train which arrives at Piccadilly closest to this time is the 15:48 from Warrington Central, arrives Piccadilly 16:11

This leaves a gap of about two hours for you to decide what to do in Warrington, make the 20 minute walk to the other station and catch the train back.

But there are 8 other trains between the two Warrington stations and Manchester in that period.

You’ll need to explain why you didn’t get a train sooner. Sorry if this appears blunt, and I’m not accusing you of anything, but this’ll be what you have to explain because at face value it doesn’t stack up

Other question for anyone familiar with those stations - does either of them have barriers?

This is exactly my point. The timings don’t stack up at all, not the alternatives for a quicker journey back. And I’m not sure about the fact that it took 3 stops and nearly half an hour for the mistake to be noticed, for a journey that should have taken around 5 minutes.

If the case goes to court then any inconsistency like this will throw into question the OPs version of events. Bearing in mind that there is another, potentially more serious charge, where it may end up being a case of “which side do I believe”, then I would suggest that anything which brings into doubt the credibility of the defendant needs to be brought out now, rather than in court.

 

[Sprinter107]

How so? If you arrived into Warrington around 2pm there are lots of trains from Central back into Manchester before that one. Given it's only a 5 min walk between the two stations there appears to be a big gap in the timeline here that the investigators will spot, even allowing a few minutes for you to check your app and work out how to get to Central from Bank Quay.

There was also a service from Bank Quay direct to Victoria at 1446 arriving 1515, which is where you said you were trying to get back to (although given there was also a train from Bank Quay at 1415 to Oxford Road, which was your destination, that would have been the obvious one to go for).

Its longer than 5 minutes between stations in Warrington. They are on opposite sides of the town. I'm a quick walker, and it takes me nearly 15 minutes, and I know where I'm going. A stranger may take longer.

 

[John R]

Its longer than 5 minutes between stations in Warrington. They are on opposite sides of the town. I'm a quick walker, and it takes me nearly 15 minutes, and I know where I'm going. A stranger may take longer.

Agree, and this was raised a few posts ago.

 

[some bloke]

The timing in Warrington might be closer to adding up if the other timings are out.

Set off around half 1

Could the outward train have been later?

i think I left Victoria around 2 ish

Or possibly later than that?

Could your train arriving at Piccadilly have been before the 16.11 arrival?

Could 16.27 have been the time the inspector noted as the end of the encounter, after the gap where you made the phone call?

Does 16.27 seem right?

Can you get some information about timings from, for example,
- friends who you had met or met later,
- your phone location history,
- the time of your phone call/any texts,
- times of purchase, from the retailer?

If the retailer was Northern, maybe the onus is on them to prove you spent too long at Warrington. But you would be wise to get the situation clear before writing to them.

................................

Were any barriers that there were open and unstaffed when you were at the Warrington stations?

...............................

I never said Warrington I said oxford I don’t know why!
:/ but I’m gonna say I thought he asked where I’m going so I said oxford road

If you told him you started at Oxford Road, they are reasonable in thinking you are automatically guilty under Byelaw 18(1).

 

[Helloxdakaja]

I’ve just had a look at the train times some of you guys sent and I think I must have gotten the 15:07 from Victoria to Warrington then. Does that make more sense?

 

[Kilopylae]

Did you wait around in Victoria for an hour-and-a-half before boarding the Chester train in error?

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Yes I did , also when I send evidence of tickets do I need to show the times on it too? Because if I do that they could say you bought the ticket for earlier and boarded a train an hour later?

 

[SuspectUsual]

I’ve just had a look at the train times some of you guys sent and I think I must have gotten the 15:07 from Victoria to Warrington then. Does that make more sense?

You must surely be able to work it out? It’s only ten days ago after all. Where else had you been? What else had you done? Did you ring anyone and if so can you remember where you were at the time? If so look at your call history.

Sorry to appear harsh, but if I put myself in the position of the person considering what to do about your situation, it looks like you’re changing your version of events to meet the challenges raised. As I said before, I’m not accusing you of anything, we’re trying to help

 

[Helloxdakaja]

I really don’t rmemeber what time I got on the train from Manchester Victoria . That’s why when the times were given on here I could work out that it was most likely the 15:07
Then I got to Warrington don’t know what time.
Then got the next available train to Manchester
Then I was stopped by the inspector at 16:27
The timings work out it I got the train from the beginning at 15:07

 

[Kilopylae]

Have a look at your Google Maps Timeline (i.e. location history)—https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb. Given that you used transit directions to know how to get back from Warrington to Victoria, presumably you had your location turned on? Your Timeline will tell you when you were in Warrington and quite possibly will give you even further information.

 

[Llanigraham]

5.) He took me to the side and was incredibly rude and straight away started threatening to get the police involved and saying that I’ll be going to court won’t be able to go on holiday etc. I have never felt so stressed in my entire life. My mum had just had a a big operation that day I was really upset hence why I didn’t cooperate well to the questions I was rudely being asked and needed to make an important phone call to make sure she was okay. I am not expecting sympathy but that is my reason for walking away then returning. I literally only walked away so I could deal with the family situation. So I walked away for 5 minutes to try and call on my phone.
I then returned back myself and talked to the police who were very polite. And then gave my details to the inspectors

This hasn't come to light before!

 

[WesternLancer]

I really don’t rmemeber what time I got on the train from Manchester Victoria . That’s why when the times were given on here I could work out that it was most likely the 15:07
Then I got to Warrington don’t know what time.
Then got the next available train to Manchester
Then I was stopped by the inspector at 16:27
The timings work out it I got the train from the beginning at 15:07

If you can generate any supporting evidence to verify the actual, accurate times you did what then you need to do that, as suggested by post above eg google timeline. I doubt they are going to trawl CCTV to look for you getting on or off trains at various places - but if you get the times wrong, as you can see from above, you serve to weaken the credibility of your own story.
I fully accept you may not have known the time, may not have had an urgent time deadline to be in another part of Manchester - but for many people life is not like that so the investigators just won't believe you, or will be skeptical to say the least - you need to give them a reason not to be, so accurate times or as good as you can get them will help you.

 

[Llanigraham]

Sorry, I was confusing the Chat Moss service to Liverpool.

So the sequence now is:

Arrived at Victoria around 1300

Boarded the 1307 Chester train

Arrived in Warrington Bank Quay (around 1348 I believe, having stopped at two stations en route)

Ignored the 1420 Bank Quay to Manchester service

Walked to Central

Boarded 1548 departure from Central

Alighted at Piccadilly (having 'missed' the stop at Oxford Road).


There are elements to this account which would look odd to any investigator.

Don't all of these stations have large signs stating their names?

 

[6Gman]

Yes I did , also when I send evidence of tickets do I need to show the times on it too? Because if I do that they could say you bought the ticket for earlier and boarded a train an hour later?

Is this an answer to the question of whether you hung around Victoria for an hour and a half before catching the 1507?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2020 ==

I really don’t rmemeber what time I got on the train from Manchester Victoria . That’s why when the times were given on here I could work out that it was most likely the 15:07
Then I got to Warrington don’t know what time.
Then got the next available train to Manchester
Then I was stopped by the inspector at 16:27
The timings work out it I got the train from the beginning at 15:07

I'm afraid they don't. (If OpenTrainTimes is correct)

The 1507 reached Bank Quay at 1534.

The 1548 from Central left at 1547 and reached Piccadilly at 1611.

If somebody knows Warrington well, runs and is lucky with crossing roads they are unlikely to do that transfer in thirteen minutes.

Please try to piece together the sequence of events because it's very difficult to give advice when your version is so confused.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Right so I think I definitely got the 15:07 train. And then once I reached bank Quay went to Warrington central .
There must have been another train after the 15:48 one to Manchester . And that’s the one I got .
Does that make sense now or no

 

[6Gman]

Right so I think I definitely got the 15:07 train. And then once I reached bank Quay went to Warrington central .
There must have been another train after the 15:48 one to Manchester . And that’s the one I got .
Does that make sense now or no

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2020 ==

There were no gates

The next train was the 1556 from Central, which terminated at Oxford Road at 1636.

Can you remember getting from Bank Quay to Central? Was it a normal walk, a brisk walk or did you run all the way? This would give some idea of how long it might take.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Yeah I ran , I’m sure that’s my route , the 15:07 train then the 15:48. It makes sense

 

[30907]

Duplicated 6Gman's post.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

I really do not have a clue what train it was then

 

[30907]

I really do not have a clue what train it was then

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2020 ==

I really do not have a clue what train it was then

What/who are you replying to?
Let's take it as settled that you started from Victoria at 15.07 and went via the two Warrington stations, walking fast to catch the train to Piccadilly.

Some of us are still puzzled about your movements at Victoria, though, not to mention the time you were there.
So - did your app tell you to catch a train to Salford Crescent and change there for Oxford Road?

 

[Sprinter107]

I really do not have a clue what train it was then

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2020 ==

I really do not have a clue what train it was then

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2020 ==

Could I just write this in my letter , I got the train from Manchester Victoria at approximately 3 , ended up in Warrington then got the train to Warrington to picadilly??
Surely that makes sense instead of going into detail about specific train times

Didn't you say earlier that you at Manchester Victoria about 13.30 ish ? And now you want to say 3ish. If they pull the cameras and find you arent telling the truth bud, you'll do yourself no favours.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

What would you suggest I write now? I’m getting really worried now .
I don’t know how to explain it all help please

 

[Sprinter107]

I do believe you got confused, and I dont think you were trying to evade your fare. I think your biggest mistake was not to seek out a member of staff as soon as possible, and get advice. the guard on the first train you caught could have endorsed your ticket, or if on a phone written you a note.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Guys I’m sooo sorry I got the stations mixed up that’s why it doesn’t make sense!!! I thought mcr Victoria was oxford road and oxford road was Victoria
I actually do not have a brain . Please don’t think I did this intentionally. Wow I hate my self
This is much shorter and straight foward now

Firstly I would like to say this what I remember to the best of my knowledge, I’m not from Manchester and the stations within Manchester really confuse me, I get confused between the names and they look similar to me.

1.) I got on a train at oxford road with the intention of travelling to Manchester Victoria. I got on the train around half 3 ish however it was the wrong train and it took me to Warrington bank Quay. As soon as I realised I got off and tried to get the train back to the centre from Warrington central. As it was the quickest one.

2.) I was due to change at picadilly to then get the train to Victoria.

3.) just before I went in through the barriers I bought a ticket from oxford road to PICADILLY because I thought I’d have to pay for another journey even though I got the wrong train

4.) the ticket man saw this and accused me of fare evasion. Without even listening to my story of me getting the wrong train .

I remember the events now. Thanks for telling me to try hard to rmemeber if I didn’t I’d have told the wrong story and would have gotten into more trouble. Also have I done anything wrong in this story? Which I believe is actually what happend

 

[John R]

What would you suggest I write now? I’m getting really worried now .
I don’t know how to explain it all help please

I don't think you've responded to the suggestion that you use location services to provide some evidence of your journey times and thus that you were only in Warrington as long as it took to catch a train back to Manchester. Without that, if I'm blunt, your story is riddled with inconsistencies, has changed frequently when challenged, and I suspect the investigators will consider that you have been short-faring, and are trying to pull the wool over their eyes. You'll also have to face the additional charge that you were abusive to the member of staff who approached you.

Edit - having just seen your latest update I'm not sure what to think, other than I cannot believe how you can be so unsure as to what happened only 10 days ago and which clearly would have been very uppermost in your mind given what happened at Piccadilly. I'm not sure how we can be expected to help you when your story completely changes after over 100 posts.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

No this is the correct story , sorry I was trying to piece it together by taking everyone’s advice . But it still never made sense to me
I never have my location on
What would you suggest I do now with this story?
Which is in fact correct as it totally makes sense

 

[Darandio]

2.) I was due to change at picadilly to then get the train to Victoria.

Yesterday you accidentally stopped there because you thought it was somewhere else. Today you were due to change there.

With this, i'm out. Hopefully you can get it sorted out but the story has more holes than Swiss Cheese.