View forward and old DMU

[eoff]

I used to get these trains (would be interested to know what it is) and loved the fact you could sit at the front and see through the driver's cab.



The photo is a scan from a scruffy old 110 negative that lay in a folder for decades. It was not all good however, there were times when there was a diesel fog inside the train!

Are there any current services on the UK rail network where you can still have a view forward as a passenger?

 

[ainsworth74]

For the time being the Tyne & Wear Metro stock offers a front view. Indeed the you can sit on what is the second man's position as the cab is only half width. New stock is on the way in the next few years that won't offer such a view anymore however.

I believe the replacement Merseyrail stock entering service shortly will however provide a forward view unlike the existing stock (though I'm open to correction on that!).

 

[A0]

I used to get these trains (would be interested to know what it is) and loved the fact you could sit at the front and see through the driver's cab.

View attachment 82615

The photo is a scan from a scruffy old 110 negative that lay in a folder for decades. It was not all good however, there were times when there was a diesel fog inside the train!

Are there any current services on the UK rail network where you can still have a view forward as a passenger?

Not on the mainline. Though most of the 'light rail' systems such as the Docklands Light Railway, Tyne & Wear Metro, Manchester Metrolink do.

 

[notadriver]

You can also have a forward view on all tram services. I can’t see Merseyrail stock having a forward view as the driver will most probably turn the window opaque.
Another idea might be to have the front facing cctv view available via WiFi for those with mobile devices.

 

[edwin_m]

(would be interested to know what it is)

Class 101, one of the more successful designs of first-generation Diesel Multiple Unit.

Class 101 DMU

One of the most numerous and widely used types, built for the ScR, NER/ER and LMR, later also based in WR with access to the SR.
...
Many sets were given an additional "facelift" to see them become one of the last types to be phased out of traffic in the early years of the 2000s
...
Many vehicles saw further use as parcels, sandite and route learning units, and many entered preservation.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You can also have a forward view on all tram services. I can’t see Merseyrail stock having a forward view as the driver will most probably turn the window opaque.
Another idea might be to have the front facing cctv view available via WiFi for those with mobile devices.

Though you'd probably want some sort of delay in the feed, in the event of things going wrong (one-unders, SPADs, animal incursions onto the line etc.). Especially if it was viewed on passengers' own mobile devices rather than on a screen inside the carriage.

 

[Wolfie]

For the time being the Tyne & Wear Metro stock offers a front view. Indeed the you can sit on what is the second man's position as the cab is only half width. New stock is on the way in the next few years that won't offer such a view anymore however.

I believe the replacement Merseyrail stock entering service shortly will however provide a forward view unlike the existing stock (though I'm open to correction on that!).

The DLR pre-CV19. Impressive views of London docklands.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Don't forget the Parry People Mover on the Stourbridge Junction-Stourbridge Town line. All of three minutes of forward viewing...

 

[notadriver]

Though you'd probably want some sort of delay in the feed, in the event of things going wrong (one-unders, SPADs, animal incursions onto the line etc.). Especially if it was viewed on passengers' own mobile devices rather than on a screen inside the carriage.

I’ve seen the view from a front facing cctv camera. It lags a fair bit on the move and it’s difficult to see much detail anyway.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Very occasionally (and very briefly) from Coach 'A' on a Pendolino when staff have been taking a brew through to the driver.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The DLR and Birmingham Airport Skytrain (although neither are part of National Rail)

 

[baldyman26]

The new Merseyrail units do have a window into the drivers cab, like others have said though, I cant see drivers wanting people looking in, a rather pointless expense really

 

[MP33]

With the class 309 if you stood between the two units, you could get a view of how fast the train was going and the brake pressure level from the middle drivers cabs instrument panels.

I thought of the old DMU's. Shortly before they were withdrawn was there an RAIB enquiry, where the Chairman said that he gave a great amount of weight to evidence from a passenger looking out the front. The passenger admitted that they knew no-one or nothing about Railways and the Chairman said that showed that they could not get together with others and decide on which lie they were meant to be telling. Which appeared to be the case with other witnesses.

 

[Huntergreed]

On all the (scotrail) 156’s I’ve been on there’s a wee hole in the blind obscuring the cab, allowing for a slight forward view and for you to see what the driver is doing, it can be interesting!

 

[edwin_m]

On all the (scotrail) 156’s I’ve been on there’s a wee hole in the blind obscuring the cab, allowing for a slight forward view and for you to see what the driver is doing, it can be interesting!

The 156s and 158s originally had a largeish glass pane in the door from the end vestibule into the cab area, giving a rather imperfect view through the wired glass of that door and the often fly-spattered window in the end gangway. The former window has now been obscured on all units and the latter one on most.

With the class 309 if you stood between the two units, you could get a view of how fast the train was going and the brake pressure level from the middle drivers cabs instrument panels.

I thought of the old DMU's. Shortly before they were withdrawn was there an RAIB enquiry, where the Chairman said that he gave a great amount of weight to evidence from a passenger looking out the front. The passenger admitted that they knew no-one or nothing about Railways and the Chairman said that showed that they could not get together with others and decide on which lie they were meant to be telling. Which appeared to be the case with other witnesses.

I'm reminded of one from the 50s or 60s, somewhere in Northumberland I think, where the Inspector paid a lot of attention to the evidence of the local aristocrat who was sitting in the first class behind the driver.

 

[Huntergreed]

With the class 309 if you stood between the two units, you could get a view of how fast the train was going and the brake pressure level from the middle drivers cabs instrument panels.

You can still do this on Scotrail sprinters. I took a 6 car 156 between Queen Street and Dumbarton Central today, stood between the two units. You could see out of the front window (of course the forward view was mostly obscured by the other 156 it was coupled to) and you could see the brake pressure gauge and the speedo. It was interesting to see, and certainly highlighted to me just how slowly those 156's accelerate on the big hill out of queen street!

 

[MP33]

On some Greater Anglia 321's. Due to lack of maintenance the door to the cab would swing open and you could get a view in reverse from one or two of the seats. If it was the 1st class end, some busy body Railway Manager would shut the door and make sure it stayed shut.

 

[Trackman]

On all the (scotrail) 156’s I’ve been on there’s a wee hole in the blind obscuring the cab, allowing for a slight forward view and for you to see what the driver is doing, it can be interesting!

I've seen them.
I saw a driver counting money once!

 

[notadriver]

With the class 309 if you stood between the two units, you could get a view of how fast the train was going and the brake pressure level from the middle drivers cabs instrument panels.

I thought of the old DMU's. Shortly before they were withdrawn was there an RAIB enquiry, where the Chairman said that he gave a great amount of weight to evidence from a passenger looking out the front. The passenger admitted that they knew no-one or nothing about Railways and the Chairman said that showed that they could not get together with others and decide on which lie they were meant to be telling. Which appeared to be the case with other witnesses.

Nowadays you can get the speed from any gps enabled smart phone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the time being the Tyne & Wear Metro stock offers a front view. Indeed the you can sit on what is the second man's position as the cab is only half width. New stock is on the way in the next few years that won't offer such a view anymore however.

I believe the replacement Merseyrail stock entering service shortly will however provide a forward view unlike the existing stock (though I'm open to correction on that!).

It's capable of it, but as a guard is now being retained (it was to make people feel safer in the absence of one) I would bet the blinds will be permanently closed.

 

[MP33]

In addition to front views, I put forward an example where you can see an indication of train performance. On the old deep level Tube trains in places there was a dial close to the floor which used to show the brake pressure. Why it was there I do not know.

 

[mmh]

In addition to front views, I put forward an example where you can see an indication of train performance. On the old deep level Tube trains in places there was a dial close to the floor which used to show the brake pressure. Why it was there I do not know.

The new S stock has them at a high level, near the carriage connections if I remember right. One of the many oddities of London Underground!

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've seen them.
I saw a driver counting money once!

I saw one once reading the Daily Express. I spent the entire journey watching the signals in case he missed one!

Nearly all 1st generation dmus had a forward view from the passenger compartment - the only exceptions I recall were the gangwayed ones (classes 124, 126), and the guard's compartment end of the single-car units (121, 122)

The only emus I recall having such a feature were the Glasgow "Blue Trains" and, I think, the 310s, although as I recall the latter had a bench seat backing on to the bulkhead so you had to stand up to see the view ahead.

 

[Donny_m]

Can’t remember exactly what metro I was taking, as I’ve ridden a million metro systems on my travels, (maybe Catania) but the driver was separated from the rest of us by a pane of thick Blue coloured glass, similar to the glass on a welding mask. You could just about see light though it but I remember pressing my camera lens to it and taking a long exposure and getting some very crazy blue/purple images, you could see the silhouette of the driver in the corner!

 

[Harpers Tate]

I was certainly the case a few years ago that on (at least some type/s of) DB ICE trains (so - fast expresses) one could sit behind the driver and enjoy a clear forward view. It seems to be one of those (IMO) desirable things that we seem to wholly discount.

You may enjoy this:

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was certainly the case a few years ago that on (at least some type/s of) DB ICE trains (so - fast expresses) one could sit behind the driver and enjoy a clear forward view. It seems to be one of those (IMO) desirable things that we seem to wholly discount.

I wouldn't say it was clear. It's an intersting curiosity but not a good view.

 

[Dstock7080]

On the old deep level Tube trains in places there was a dial close to the floor which used to show the brake pressure. Why it was there I do not know.

The new S stock has them at a high level, near the carriage connections if I remember right. One of the many oddities of London Underground!

To assist staff locate and confirm that isolations have been carried out correctly in the event of train failure.
Older trains had BRV Brake Release Valve located within sight of gauge, S Stock have BIC.

 

[WesternLancer]

I used to get these trains (would be interested to know what it is) and loved the fact you could sit at the front and see through the driver's cab.

View attachment 82615

The photo is a scan from a scruffy old 110 negative that lay in a folder for decades. It was not all good however, there were times when there was a diesel fog inside the train!

Are there any current services on the UK rail network where you can still have a view forward as a passenger?

For a 110 Negative that's a pretty good shot - IIRC in anything but decent light they tended to be very grainy indeed! What date was that from?

 

[K.o.R]

The PEP EMUs used to have the space next to the cab for passenger use (luggage really)(but the guard could tell you to move if necessary).

 

[ainsworth74]

I was certainly the case a few years ago that on (at least some type/s of) DB ICE trains (so - fast expresses) one could sit behind the driver and enjoy a clear forward view. It seems to be one of those (IMO) desirable things that we seem to wholly discount.

That would be the ICE3 though it depends very much on the driver as the partition can be turned opaque (though you can still just about see ahead) at the drivers discretion (and I'm lead to believe it also does when running under cautionary signalling aspects). In my experience (not that great as admittedly I can probably count ICE3 trips in two hands) though most drivers leave it frosted.