London Liverpool Street remodelling

[David Goddard]

So based on this thread, platforms 16 and 17 are to be extended to nine car so that they can take Class 345s.
The latest information on service patterns and frequency suggests that Crossrail trains will only run into the station at peak times, with a four train per hour shuttle to Gidea Park. So there will be two platforms, which will be too short for anything else just for this service and sit empty the rest of the day.

I am sure that initially there was discussion about closing 17 and 18, and extending 16 to ten cars. Although this loses one more, it retains one which can be used for any type of train all day.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

IIRC some of those works are also for the long-awaited renewal of the old 1940s/1950s era OLE in the Stratford area. Last bastion of GE compound fixed-tension equipment on the GEML as I understand it.

Nods.

But with Crossrail delayed, who needs OLE that doesn't fall down anymore.

 

[AlanFry1]

Crossrail's opening is delayed, it doesn't mean some of the works planned for Crossrail can be delayed, especially at just four months notice before they're due to occur.

No, but I would assume that a delay on the opening will cause a knock-on to the reduction in platforms but current timetable of services to/from LST post-covid?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2020 ==

So based on this thread, platforms 16 and 17 are to be extended to nine car so that they can take Class 345s.
The latest information on service patterns and frequency suggests that Crossrail trains will only run into the station at peak times, with a four train per hour shuttle to Gidea Park. So there will be two platforms, which will be too short for anything else just for this service and sit empty the rest of the day.

I am sure that initially there was discussion about closing 17 and 18, and extending 16 to ten cars. Although this loses one more, it retains one which can be used for any type of train all day.

This would make sense, but it becomes a bit problematic I'd imagine with C2C, who regularly divert weekend trains to this station, and often have a 2tph anyways. They have new trains coming in, where will they go?

 

[PeterC]

There are 2 parts to this process, the physical changes, and introducing the longer trains.

You would expect the track to be altered and the platform walls to be installed during the closure, but doesn’t mean they have to fully surface the platform extensions, unless the trains are being lengthened at same time (I‘m not sure when trains are being done)

I used Liverpool Street in late 1980s, early 1990s and nearly always one platform closed for many weeks at a time whilst they rebuilt station, moved platforms 6-10 and tiled platforms with the grey/white tiles, there was even a period where the old concourse (about 4 car lengths from current gate line) of platforms 1-6 was removed and had to walk along the part built platforms, with some bits surfaced in temporary plywood boards until the tiles were laid.

At one time in 1980s were going to increase to 22 platforms and increase from 6 to 8 tracks from Bethnal Green (before plans got cut back to save money)

I thought that was down to Betjeman's campaign to "save" the West Side which meant that the wall down the middle of the station was retained.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

No, but I would assume that a delay on the opening will cause a knock-on to the reduction in platforms but current timetable of services to/from LST post-covid?

Don't know about the platform situation specifically, I'd assume the situation can be worked around until Crossrail opens.

The work at Liverpool Street is far from the only work scheduled for Christmas and New Year 2020/21 though and even if Liverpool Street was to be dropped at such a late stage, the closures themselves are still needed for the myriad other works, and with there being closures for the myriad other works, you're as well to do Liverpool Street then and avoid further closures later.

 

[306024]

The big gain of doing Liverpool St platforms is that the class 345s can all become 9 cars, and software permitting become a uniform fleet. Platform working becomes a bit tighter for the MTR service but the works wouldn’t be happening if the timetable couldn’t be accommodated.

c2c are OK as 12 car trains can still access platform 15 from the electric line, although they usually run as 8 cars, strengthening to 12 cars when West Ham are at home, which is academic for now.

Platforms 16 and 17 will still accommodate a 5 car class 720, and if it ever happens the through Lowestoft services would fit there too.

 

[Class 170101]

The big gain of doing Liverpool St platforms is that the class 345s can all become 9 cars, and software permitting become a uniform fleet. Platform working becomes a bit tighter for the MTR service but the works wouldn’t be happening if the timetable couldn’t be accommodated.

c2c are OK as 12 car trains can still access platform 15 from the electric line, although they usually run as 8 cars, strengthening to 12 cars when West Ham are at home, which is academic for now.

Platforms 16 and 17 will still accommodate a 5 car class 720, and if it ever happens the through Lowestoft services would fit there too.

And for 16 and 17 - 8 car c2c services as well. Only a small trains will be 10 car Class 720 eqivalent.

I hope you are right about the Liverpool Street platform working ref 9 car MTR services, I'm not so sure myself.

 

[Bald Rick]

I hope you are right about the Liverpool Street platform working ref 9 car MTR services, I'm not so sure myself.

Yep it works fine, a bit tighter but no major issues.

 

[Minstral25]

Does anyone have links to plans for the changes - interesting to see the talk but having trouble visualising

 

[AM9]

IIRC some of those works are also for the long-awaited renewal of the old 1940s/1950s era OLE in the Stratford area. Last bastion of GE compound fixed-tension equipment on the GEML as I understand it.

No doubt the LNER 'A' frame gantries will survive another 50 years.

 

[59CosG95]

No doubt the LNER 'A' frame gantries will survive another 50 years.

Indeed - the new parts will be the F+F Single Insulator Cantilevers used elsewhere on the network, and Tensorexes up at tensioning points. IIRC there's a new Tensorex/Fixed Tension anchor portal pair just east of Maryland. However, I'm not 100% sure on the scale of the renewals' encroachment onto the North London & Lea Valley Lines.

 

[AM9]

Indeed - the new parts will be the F+F Single Insulator Cantilevers used elsewhere on the network, and Tensorexes up at tensioning points. IIRC there's a new Tensorex/Fixed Tension anchor portal pair just east of Maryland. However, I'm not 100% sure on the scale of the renewals' encroachment onto the North London & Lea Valley Lines.

Ironically, the beefy 'A' frames are probably ideal for Tensorex units given their resistance to longitudinal forces needed for the original fixed tension wires.

 

[59CosG95]

Ironically, the beefy 'A' frames are probably ideal for Tensorex units given their resistance to longitudinal forces needed for the original fixed tension wires.

The NR website for Anglia OLE Renewals states that 8 new structures and 19 new wire runs will be installed. Whether these are single track cantilevers, portals or TTCs is as yet unknown.

 

[nlogax]

Indeed - the new parts will be the F+F Single Insulator Cantilevers used elsewhere on the network

That's interesting. Have F+F SICs already been deployed anywhere else beyond the GWML? It'll be a nice bit of variety instead of seeing the miles of Bonomi Omnia that have sprouted up on various other electrification projects.

 

[59CosG95]

That's interesting. Have F+F SICs already been deployed anywhere else beyond the GWML? It'll be a nice bit of variety instead of seeing the miles of Bonomi Omnia that have sprouted up on various other electrification projects.

Yes, they've appeared in plentiful numbers along the GEML as far east as Chelmsford, as well as the Southend Victoria branch and a short stub of the West Anglia route from Bethnal Green (done as part of the GEML works). SICs are making occasional appearances on the MML (in stations, at monoboom Tensorex portals etc.) and on a few locations in Scotland (normally where there's limited clearance); they're in the Series 2 range along with the Bonomi kit. Like the Bonomi kit, as well as Alstom's very similar 'cLever' range (which I've only seen at the top of the Lickey Incline), and more recently the SICAT range (Stevenage Turnback, Shields-Larkhall and others in Strathclyde before the "Bonomi boom"), the SICs are in the UKMS catalogue.
The GEFF range is a variant of Series 1 before it was coined as such, and has now become part of UKMS-R1 AIUI (for Mk1 renewals). Once the GEML compound equipment is gone, expect the Mk1 east of Chelmsford to follow suit, along with the Mk1 on the LTS.

 

[nlogax]

That's a fantastic summary, thanks @59CosG95 . Think I'm long overdue a GEML trip to check out the 745s and it'll be good to check some of these changes out too.