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Just wondering what people think about the idea of the surplus 20-odd 185s going to Chiltern and WMT to replace the 172s on Southern WCML work and the 168s on the Chiltern mainline?
They would be a clear upgrade in quality over both the 168s and 172a.
Just wondering what people think about the idea of the surplus 20-odd 185s going to Chiltern and WMT to replace the 172s on Southern WCML work and the 168s on the Chiltern mainline?
They would be a clear upgrade in quality over both the 168s and 172a.
Who says? Chiltern don't offer first class on their units so that would be removed. 185s on Chiltern would increase their fuel bill and have perhaps a less favourable seating layout for passengers. Are 185s really an uptick in quality over the specific set up of Chiltern's 170s. I don't really think they are. There aren't enough anyway.
Where are they going to maintain them, is this over and above the 168s they have? They are heavy sods too for a passenger train at RA5 and their track access charges would increase by about 5p a mile over a 168.
Who says? Chiltern don't offer first class on their units so that would be removed. 185s on Chiltern would increase their fuel bill and have perhaps a less favourable seating layout for passengers. Are 185s really an uptick in quality over the specific set up of Chiltern's 170s. I don't really think they are. There aren't enough anyway.
185s have been given an intercity quality with their refurbishment, whilst the door position and vestibule space gives them the flexibility to provide well for commuter travellers. Also very reliable and green with their eco mode. Turbostars are clear commuter trains and nothing more.
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Where are they going to maintain them, is this over and above the 168s they have? They are heavy sods too for a passenger train at RA5 and their track access charges would increase by about 5p a mile over a 168.
Why on earth would you want to replace perfectly good EMUs with DMUs based on the same bodyshell? That would be the definition of madness.
Because they're basically the same, you could easily give the 350s the same interior if you wanted. But they're different services - LNR is more of a local operation that happens to offer budget long distance fares, TPE is a regional express operation that happens to carry some local passengers.
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It definitely wasn't on the WCML in service; no WCML crews would be trained on them. Are you sure you didn't see a Southern Electrostar? The newer 5-car units (forget their class) have a very similar design with rounded windows, though they are 20m rather than 23m vehicles. The WCML Southern service normally uses the older 170-like units, but it could have been a substitution.
There are just 15 three car class 185 sets available and not until the start of next year. The remaining 36 are on long term lease at TransPennine Express.
Why on earth would you want to replace perfectly good EMUs with DMUs based on the same bodyshell? That would be the definition of madness.
Because they're basically the same, you could easily give the 350s the same interior if you wanted. But they're different services - LNR is more of a local operation that happens to offer budget long distance fares, TPE is a regional express operation that happens to carry some local passengers.
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It definitely wasn't on the WCML in service; no WCML crews would be trained on them. Are you sure you didn't see a Southern Electrostar? The newer 5-car units (forget their class) have a very similar design with rounded windows, though they are 20m rather than 23m vehicles. The WCML Southern service normally uses the older 170-like units, but it could have been a substitution.
I'll be honest I was standing some distance away so didn't see if there was a pantograph or any number. Wouldn't know about the noise but it did look like one.
I'm not suggesting 185s directly replace 350s. I'm saying by putting the 185 on the Chiltern it offers a superior level of service and comfort for London-Birmingham passengers over both the 168 and the 350 on the WCML route. The 185 currently has by far the better interior of the three, following the refurb. So you could attract more passengers away from overcrowded WCML services and onto the Chiltern route.
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There are just 15 three car class 185 sets available and not until the start of next year. The remaining 36 are on long term lease at TransPennine Express.
I'm not suggesting 185s directly replace 350s. I'm saying by putting the 185 on the Chiltern it offers a superior level of service and comfort for London-Birmingham passengers over both the 168 and the 350 on the WCML route. The 185 currently has by far the better interior of the three, following the refurb. So you could attract more passengers away from overcrowded WCML services and onto the Chiltern route.
Ah. That isn't really going to work, because the Chiltern route is not really a competitor for the south WCML services that are overcrowded - i.e. the commuter services south of Northampton (though not at the moment!) There is not an overcrowding problem on Avanti services from Birmingham to Euston.
It definitely wasn't on the WCML in service; no WCML crews would be trained on them. Are you sure you didn't see a Southern Electrostar? The newer 5-car units (forget their class) have a very similar design with rounded windows, though they are 20m rather than 23m vehicles. The WCML Southern service normally uses the older 170-like units, but it could have been a substitution.
Unless that extra cost is made back not even the DfT would sanction it. Chiltern probably saved a shed load by moving from 67s to 68s on the loco hauled.
Also worth remembering that the interior of the train has very little to do with the exterior. Chiltern could quite easily refurbish their turbos to a similar standard as the 185s should they wish and they thought it was a sensible idea.
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