can public transport ever recover from COVID-19

[Nicholas Lewis]

Latest dept of transport data has National rail usage upto 32-33% in first week of August. Its shows lower on 2nd week of August but its provisional data and always gets revised up.

Its not split out to any part of the country but Transport for London tube usage is also around 30-32%.

So a steady if slow recovery of about 2-4% / week currently but come September we may see a bigger uptick.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/transport-use-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic

 

[Bikeman78]

Usually I travel around the region and sometimes further afield as part of my job, but all business travel is off the agenda for the foreseeable future. I have only been on a train twice since March and that was only for a very short hop and I honestly can't think when next time will be and that is from someone who normally is on a train several times a week.

I spent two days last week travelling out of Liverpool Street. I plan to make more trips in the coming weeks. As you say, most trains were not busy, but some of the four car trains were full and standing. I was surprised at how busy the Shenfield stoppers were. The eight car 315 on the 2040 ex LST was full from Stratford. There was no disruption, the previous train ran on time 10 minutes earlier.

 

[6862]

Currently on my first train journey for over 5 months. On a XC Voyager, in this carriage there are at least 100 signs telling me to stay apart from other people (one sign on the back of each seat, one above each pair of seats and several others dotted around). The catering manager has just separated a couple who committed the crime of sitting together - apparently sitting in aisle seats is forbidden (the guard also just announced this). Five minutes in I can already see that this level of restriction and legislation is unsustainable! On the plus side because no one can sit next to me I have plenty of legroom by sitting sideways!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The catering manager has just separated a couple who committed the crime of sitting together

Good lord. That really is heading into the territory of "refuse receptacle emptying manager", isn't it?

Is that the catering trolley steward's job?

 

[6862]

Good lord. That really is heading into the territory of "refuse receptacle emptying manager", isn't it?

Is that the catering trolley steward's job?

Perhaps that wasn't the correct terminology - I just used that as I've heard them refer to themselves in announcements as that before!

 

[DB]

Perhaps that wasn't the correct terminology - I just used that as I've heard them refer to themselves in announcements as that before!

Don't a lot of TOCs refer to them as 'Retail Service Manager' (even if the only retail service is a trolley).

Not specific to the railways, of course - in some industries nearly everyone is a 'manager' these days...

 

[Bantamzen]

Currently on my first train journey for over 5 months. On a XC Voyager, in this carriage there are at least 100 signs telling me to stay apart from other people (one sign on the back of each seat, one above each pair of seats and several others dotted around). The catering manager has just separated a couple who committed the crime of sitting together - apparently sitting in aisle seats is forbidden (the guard also just announced this). Five minutes in I can already see that this level of restriction and legislation is unsustainable! On the plus side because no one can sit next to me I have plenty of legroom by sitting sideways!

Good lord. That really is heading into the territory of "refuse receptacle emptying manager", isn't it?

Is that the catering trolley steward's job?

The manager's title is what you took from that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The manager's title is what you took from that?

I was more implying that COVID had offered the opportunity for a basic level employee to "put a hat on" and get involved in things that aren't really their role, encouraged by a downright silly job title?

But I could probably counter your point, such as it is, with "do you not find any anti-COVID measure to be acceptable"? That's why I see your views as so unrealistic in this area - we simply cannot have no measures at this stage. Using only the window seats reduces risk to the staff and others walking through the train.

 

[Bantamzen]

I was more implying that COVID had offered the opportunity for a basic level employee to "put a hat on" and get involved in things that aren't really their role, encouraged by a downright silly job title?

But I could probably counter your point, such as it is, with "do you not find any anti-COVID measure to be acceptable"? That's why I see your views as so unrealistic in this area - we simply cannot have no measures at this stage. Using only the window seats reduces risk to the staff and others walking through the train.

Are we really at the stage where couples aren't allowed to sit together? By sitting together they would have been allowing other travellers a bit of extra space. Quite honestly this smacks of either a total jobsworth, or some miserable so-and-so jealous of other people having any kind of happiness.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was more implying that COVID had offered the opportunity for a basic level employee to "put a hat on" and get involved in things that aren't really their role, encouraged by a downright silly job title?

But I could probably counter your point, such as it is, with "do you not find any anti-COVID measure to be acceptable"? That's why I see your views as so unrealistic in this area - we simply cannot have no measures at this stage. Using only the window seats reduces risk to the staff and others walking through the train.

It makes a lot of sense for people travelling alone to sit in the window seats. Less so for groups. Are couples or families travelling together expected to occupy up to four pairs of seats or two bays of four? They would have to talk pretty loudly to have a conversation. Also why the double standards between planes and trains? Personally I don't think the risk of walking past someone in an aisle seat is much different to walking past someone in a supermarket. Or having a plate of food served in a restaurant for that matter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also why the double standards between planes and trains?

That's a good question and in my view the situation on planes isn't acceptable.

 

[DB]

we simply cannot have no measures at this stage.

In your opinion, which is not necessarily shared by everyone...

 

[Seehof]

My experience of Cross Country with their vastly ridiculous number of notices and announcements is that they are doing an incredible amount of probably long term damage to the railway industry. I know of someone who was told off for using the “wrong door!”

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are couples or families travelling together expected to occupy up to four pairs of seats or two bays of four?

I did a dummy reservation ( which I did cancel immediately afterwards ) for four on an LNER service.

The four seat numbers allocated were randomly scattered across the carriage; none of them were anywhere near each other.

 

[Seehof]

I dread to think where this is going to end. The railway industry has lost all common sense.

 

[6862]

My experience of Cross Country with their vastly ridiculous number of notices and announcements is that they are doing an incredible amount of probably long term damage to the railway industry. I know of someone who was told off for using the “wrong door!”

There are a stupid number of stickers absolutely everywhere on the Voyagers I've used today but I've been pleasantly surprised that the announcements don't seem to be any more frequent than pre-Covid, and indeed on the train I'm currently on there hasn't been any mention of masks/social distancing etc. But it's quite probable that two 40 minute journeys aren't representative of such a vast network.

 

[Bikeman78]

My experience of Cross Country with their vastly ridiculous number of notices and announcements is that they are doing an incredible amount of probably long term damage to the railway industry. I know of someone who was told off for using the “wrong door!”

Meanwhile, in London people are just getting on with it. I've been on trains with around 75% of seats taken, one was probably 90%. All the trains concerned were DOO so who is going to intervene?

I read on a gen group today that the 1430 to Enfield Town failed at Bethnal Green. Everyone off. The pair of 315s on the 1445 Cheshunt was packed. Some will recall that I predicted months ago that this would happen. There is no way to prevent it. DOO train at an unstaffed station.

 

[WatcherZero]

Latest dept of transport data has National rail usage upto 32-33% in first week of August. Its shows lower on 2nd week of August but its provisional data and always gets revised up.

Its not split out to any part of the country but Transport for London tube usage is also around 30-32%.

So a steady if slow recovery of about 2-4% / week currently but come September we may see a bigger uptick.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/transport-use-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic

London is dragging down the rest of the country, which as it makes up over half of all Rail journeys is heavily weighted.

Theres been a recent study counting the number of active mobile phones in city centres in the first 11 days of August and comparing it to the same time last year (not precise but gives an aggregate of daytime population). London is sitting on 27% in evenings and weekends but just 13% during work hours (same in the other capitals with 14% in Cardiff/Edinburgh and 18% in Belfast) however they are seeing more leisure with 46% in Cardiff and 56% in Edinburgh on evenings and weekends. Small and medium size cities have recovered their leisure hours footfall substantially further. I can certainly attest to that as I have never seen Wigan Town Centre so busy in the early evenings on work nights.

Daytime Footfall compared to Pre Lockdown
Small Cities 27%
Medium 22%
Large 16%
London 13%

Total Footfall (Work Hours + Evening and Weekends)

Average 56%

Small 80%
Medium 78%
Large 52%
London 27%

However people have been flocking to the seaside resorts to enjoy the good sun and fewer foreign travel options. Using this counting method some cities have recorded higher footfall average than pre-lockdown:

Blackpool	128
Bournemouth	126
Birkenhead	118
Southend	114
Chatham	104
Basildon	102
Doncaster	101

(Yeah im not sure why people are flocking to Doncaster either, unless its a place where usually everyone leaves the city centre to go elsewhere and they cant leave at the moment.)

 

[johnnychips]

London is dragging down the rest of the country, which as it makes up over half of all Rail journeys is heavily weighted.

Theres been a recent study counting the number of active mobile phones in city centres in the first 11 days of August and comparing it to the same time last year (not precise but gives an aggregate of daytime population). London is sitting on 27% in evenings and weekends but just 13% during work hours (same in the other capitals with 14% in Cardiff/Edinburgh and 18% in Belfast) however they are seeing more leisure with 46% in Cardiff and 56% in Edinburgh on evenings and weekends. Small and medium size cities have recovered their leisure hours footfall substantially further. I can certainly attest to that as I have never seen Wigan Town Centre so busy in the early evenings on work nights.

Daytime Footfall compared to Pre Lockdown
Small Cities 27%
Medium 22%
Large 16%
London 13%

Total Footfall (Work Hours + Evening and Weekends)

Average 56%

Small 80%
Medium 78%
Large 52%
London 27%

However people have been flocking to the seaside resorts to enjoy the good sun and fewer foreign travel options. Using this counting method some cities have recorded higher footfall average than pre-lockdown:

Blackpool	128
Bournemouth	126
Birkenhead	118
Southend	114
Chatham	104
Basildon	102
Doncaster	101

(Yeah im not sure why people are flocking to Doncaster either, unless its a place where usually everyone leaves the city centre to go elsewhere and they cant leave at the moment.)

Are those percentage increases or is the average 100 and those are the only places above average?

 

[WatcherZero]

These are percentages of their pre-lockdown average. The list is the only ones out of 65 cities and large towns that are up.

So Blackpool at 128% would be 28% up.

 

[DB]

These are percentages of their pre-lockdown average. The list is the only ones out of 65 cities and large towns that are up.

So Blackpool at 128% would be 28% up.

What's your source for this (not doubting it - just interested to see the full details)?

 

[Jamiescott1]

I'm currently on a chiltern train. I plonked myself down at a window seat and the lady in the window seat opposite asked me to move. I asked why and she said I was too close to her and need to keep those seats free

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm currently on a chiltern train. I plonked myself down at a window seat and the lady in the window seat opposite asked me to move. I asked why and she said I was too close to her and need to keep those seats free

"No."

 

[6862]

I'm currently on a chiltern train. I plonked myself down at a window seat and the lady in the window seat opposite asked me to move. I asked why and she said I was too close to her and need to keep those seats free

That's absurd. I hope you refused to move!

 

[westv]

Hull Trains first service since March was this morning. I wonder what the loading was.

 

[Jamiescott1]

That's absurd. I hope you refused to move!

I cant repeat my response in this forum

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I cant repeat my response in this forum

Problem is people have been brainwashed into believing public transport is unsafe and particularly trains. Im hearing of people telling there companies 'you can't make me use trains there not safe and if i get it the rest of the office will be at risk'. Company bosses are also running scared of the consequences of whole offices being forced to quarantine or worse so why take the risk when they are getting by with working from home.

Without a media campaign this will be a slow recovery but if we continue to run with manageable levels of infection rates my view is people views will gradually improve.

 

[WindsorJoe]

Hull Trains first service since March was this morning. I wonder what the loading was.

Looked Like a pretty healthy loading coming into kings Cross this morning. Unfortunately the first northbound Return back to Hull at 11.48 was cancelled due to overhead line Damage.

 

[MikeWM]

Problem is people have been brainwashed into believing public transport is unsafe and particularly trains. Im hearing of people telling there companies 'you can't make me use trains there not safe and if i get it the rest of the office will be at risk'. Company bosses are also running scared of the consequences of whole offices being forced to quarantine or worse so why take the risk when they are getting by with working from home.

Without a media campaign this will be a slow recovery but if we continue to run with manageable levels of infection rates my view is people views will gradually improve.

My office is asking everyone whether they would be using public transport to commute once the office reopens. I suspect the reason they are asking is so that those of us who say 'yes' won't be the first to be asked to return.

And only anecdotal evidence, but there seem to be quite a lot of people still afraid to use trains.

This has not been handled well, and the implications aren't good.

 

[westv]

My office is asking everyone whether they would be using public transport to commute once the office reopens. I suspect the reason they are asking is so that those of us who say 'yes' won't be the first to be asked to return.

And only anecdotal evidence, but there seem to be quite a lot of people still afraid to use trains.

This has not been handled well, and the implications aren't good.

Our office has told everyone that, currently, there is no pressure to return if anybody doesn't want to.